Two trbulations and the truth about them

[inchrist]

33 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

I Thessalonians 4:13, 14 and Rev. 20: 4-6.   Those are not the same people being raised from the dead if you bother to read both passages.   Those are not the same event.  They describe two completely different events. 

and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God  

These are not the same people as 

 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first

 

When it states the dead in Christ rise first

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

⁶ Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection

 

Twice mentions first resurrection In Rev 20

  in Christ will rise first

.....

 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection

in Christ will rise first

But somehow Those are not the same event.

We must "bother to read both passages. "

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection

in Christ will rise first

......Ok then....not the same people??? Sure

 

Edited June 5, 2018 by inchrist

[Guest shiloh357]

14 minutes ago, inchrist said:

You did

No I didn't. 

Quote

any Christian who is not a pretrib hates the blessed hope, by such remark, you've lowered all other Christians 

I didn't say that, either.  You are adding to what I said. 

[Guest shiloh357]

9 minutes ago, Steve Conley said:

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

shiloh357, what you read was, I believe, the frustration that comes from countless instances of abuse that is suffered by those who dare to point out the fallacious nature of pretribulationism. I was once a pretribber who ridiculed those who "were too stupid to see that we are not appointed unto wrath". 

That's is your problem. Diaste leveled an untrue diatribe about all pre-tribbers that is untrue and he aimed it squarely at us and that basically falls into false accusations.   And not only that, but he could not cite one person who actually said those things.   Sometimes, pre-tribbers, because they are human, get passionate and err in the flesh and let their emotions get the better of them.   And those who don't believe in the pre-trib do the same thing.  It happens. But that is no reason to hoist a blanket condemnation the way Diaste  against people here, who he knows didn't say those things.   

[inchrist]

1 hour ago, shiloh357 said:

You have the resurrection of every saint that ever lived in I Thess. 4 at the rapture.   

No you don't,

Dead is an adjective, has no classification for example....this dead Christian and that dead Christian....

Poor is another adjective there is no difference between this poor white person and that poor black person.

You are declassifying beyond what is in scripture of a separation between this dead Christian and that dead Christian....

You are manipulating scriptures to squeeze in the living amongst the dead to rapture inbetween dead christians

After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. 

You are grossly misinformed.

 

[inchrist]

4 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

No I didn't. 

I didn't say that, either.  You are adding to what I said. 

One lie with another lie....

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, inchrist said:

No you don't,

Dead is an adjective, has no classification for example....this dead Christian and that dead Christian....

Poor is another adjective there is no difference between this poor white person and that poor black person.

You are declassifying beyond what is in scripture of a separation between this dead Christian and that dead Christian....

You are manipulating scriptures to squeeze in the living amongst the dead to rapture inbetween dead christians

After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. 

You are grossly misinformed.

 

At the rapture every believer that has ever lived up to that point will be taken to Heaven, both the living and the dead. 

[Guest shiloh357]

1 minute ago, inchrist said:

One lie with another lie....

No, I am not lying.  I am not like you.  I don't add to people's words in order to paint them to mean something they don't mean.

[inchrist]

2 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

At the rapture every believer that has ever lived up to that point will be taken to Heaven, both the living and the dead. 

Which goes beyond your pretrib....because the last people to die recorded in scripture are the two witnesses.....the dead in Christ shall rise first....

You pre tribs are not special to be raptured inbetween the dead.

 

[Guest shiloh357]

4 minutes ago, inchrist said:

Which goes beyond your pretrib....because the last people to die recorded in scripture are the two witnesses.....the dead in Christ shall rise first....

It's really, really simple to understand.  At the rapture, the dead in Christ, every Christian that ever lived, but is dead and buried, will rise first and we which remain will follow them to meet the Lord in the air.   That is different than in Rev. 20: 4-6 where only the Tribulation believers, those who got saved during the Tribulation but were martyred or otherwise died in Christ will be raised.

[ENOCH2010]

4 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

Rev. 20:4-6 tells us that the first resurrection only includes the Tribulation saints that died for not worshiping the beast and his image:  "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."
(Rev 20:4-6)

So there will a resurrection of the saints that occurs prior to the first resurrection and that is outlined for us here: "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."(1Th 4:13-17)
 

If the Lord had put that extra resurrection in the Bible we wouldn't be having this debate, but since it's the pre-trib crowd that pencils the extra resurrection in just to make their doctrine  sound like it has merit. I have to file that under suspect. I say the Bible has it right.