The context of 1 Thess 5:1

[n2thelight]

On 7/15/2018 at 11:47 PM, Revelation Man said:

You keep looking to Astrology and I will look to God, I have been in this venture well over 30 years, and I have plenty of wisdom from my studies. 

The whole Word is written in the stars

You may not believe it but just thought I'd drop it here for others to explore

The Witness of the Stars 
E. W. Bullinger
1893

https://philologos.org/__eb-tws/

[iamlamad]

11 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Right, and the word harpazo is also in Rev 12:5. Is John not connecting the head with the body through first resurrection and rapture. If you understand that the church was conceived at Pentecost 2000 years ago, then it all makes sense. First resurrection and rapture is the birth of the church, to simplify it.

Yes, the last days and end times are what we're in now. I believe the church consists of those who were born again since the beginning of Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4) all the way up until now. God bless.

I just heard it on the radio yesterday: a man was telling us about the 7 different "raptures" found in the bible. And Jesus being caught up was one of them. Did you forget that verse?

 Acts 1:9  Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.

Rev. 12:5  She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne.

These two verses speak of the same event. 

"First resurrection and rapture is the birth of the church, to simplify it."  What? The resurrection of the dead in Christ (the rapture events) ENDS the church age - not begin it! The church began when Jesus breathed on them and said, "receive the Holy Spirit." they were born again at that moment. But those 120 that were born again were still told they must wait for the Holy Spirit to bring them POWER to witness. That is what happened in Acts. 2.

[Steve Conley]

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

The context of 1Thes 5:1 began in Chapter 4 verse 13. Paul begins there to inform them concerning those who have died in Christ, those who are asleep. His teaching on the subject continues till 5:10 where he says that both the living and dead (sleep) in Christ shall live together with Him.

1Thes 4:13-5:11 presents what takes place upon Christ's arrival at His parousia (arrival and continuing presence). Our gathering to Him and the beginning of the pouring out of His wrath take place upon the same day.

1Th 4:13  But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14  For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15  For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming (parousia) of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18  Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1Th 5:1  But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Th 5:2  For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3  For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th 5:4  But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Th 5:5  Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1Th 5:6  Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
1Th 5:7  For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
1Th 5:8  But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
1Th 5:9  For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Th 5:10  Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
1Th 5:11  Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

Even though none but God know the day and hour of Christ's appearing and revelation, even the newest of believers can know the times and seasons of His return. Jesus told us in the Olivet discourse what signs would precede His arrival on the day of the Lord. Paul also mentioned some these to the Thessalonians in 2Thes 2:3.

Hallelujah

[Heb 13:8]

5 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I just heard it on the radio yesterday: a man was telling us about the 7 different "raptures" found in the bible. And Jesus being caught up was one of them. Did you forget that verse?

 Acts 1:9  Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.

Rev. 12:5  She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne.These two verses speak of the same event. 

No, the word for Jesus ascension in Acts 1:9 is "epairó", and the word in 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5 is "harpazo".

These words have two different meanings in context, a lifting up in victory vs being snatched away through a rescue. Jesus didn't need to be snatched away like a thief because He already defeated the devil.

The word "analambanó" in Acts 1:2 is translated "to raise", as to raise in victory because it is finished at the cross.

Quote

"First resurrection and rapture is the birth of the church, to simplify it."  What? The resurrection of the dead in Christ (the rapture events) ENDS the church age - not begin it! The church began when Jesus breathed on them and said, "receive the Holy Spirit." they were born again at that moment. But those 120 that were born again were still told they must wait for the Holy Spirit to bring them POWER to witness. That is what happened in Acts. 2.

Well, that's what tradition teaches, but how often has tradition been right?

There are 3 stages to the process of conception and birth..

1. Corporate conception of the church - Acts 2:1-4/Matt 1:20 (Example of Holy Spirit conception)
2. Individual conception seed inside the believer - John 3:16, Rom 10:9, Eph 1:13-14 (Seed Gal 3:19, Gal 3:29, 1Pe 1:23, 1Jo 3:9)
3. Corporate birth of the church - 1 Cor 15:50-54, 1 Thess 4:13-18, Rev 12:5

Consider that Paul even felt abnormally born in 1 Cor 15:8. Also consider the travail of the Lord's body below...

Isa 53:11 He shall see the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Rom 8:22-25 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

2 Cor 5:1-5 For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, 3because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Rev 12:2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.

God bless

[Revelation Man]

19 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Hey RM, where's the pregnant woman about to give birth in Gen 37? Rachel had already died in Gen 35. Where's the Red Dragon and the Harpazo in Gen 37? Jesus birth and ascension and King Herod is all in the NT, not the OT. Well of course the catholics debunk the sign. They have about as much knowledge on scripture than a trash can.

Him being a Catholic Astronomer (his handle online) has ZERO to do with his work as an astronomer. He shows ACTUAL MAPPED OUT Stars via the ACTUAL DATES, and proves this is not a one time event, so you can't argue with facts brother. 

The Woman in Rev. 12 is clothed in the Sun, Moon and 12 stars = Genesis 37:9. Thus the Woman is Israel. The Woman of Rev. 12 eventually BIRTHED the male child Jesus, whom the Dragon (Satan) tried to kill via King Herod. 

Israel BIRTHED Jesus. Israel is THE WOMAN !! 

Edited July 18, 2018 by Revelation Man

[Heb 13:8]

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

Him being a Catholic Astronomer (his handle online) has ZERO to do with his work as an astronomer. He shows ACTUAL MAPPED OUT Stars via the ACTUAL DATES, and proves this is not a one time event, so you can't argue with facts brother. 

And there's been believers in Christ that are not catholic who have gone back 2000 years in Stellarium and 100 years in the future and have not found the Rev 12:1-5 alignment. The most accurate alignment was on 9/23/17. 

Quote

Th Woman in Rev. 12 is clothed in the Sun, Moon and 12 stars = Genesis 37:9. This the Woman is Israel. The Woman of Rev. 12 eventually BIRTHED the male child Jesus, whom the Dragon (Satan) tried to kill via King Herod. 

So Rev 12:1 is in reference to Gen 37:9, and Rev 12:2-5 is in reference to the birth of Jesus and King Herod in the NT and Rev 12:6-17 is in reference to the 70th week. What does Joseph and his family have to do with the birth of Jesus and King Herod and the 70th week?? ?

Quote

Israel BIRTHED Jesus. Israel is THE WOMAN !! 

No RM, Rev 12:1-5 has nothing to do with a birth and/or of Jesus 2000 years ago. Always remember, conception comes before birth. 

Israel birthed Jesus - Incorrect
Israel conceived the Church - Correct

There are 3 stages to the process of conception and birth..

1. Corporate conception of the church - Acts 2:1-4/Matt 1:20 (Example of Holy Spirit conception)
2. Individual conception seed inside the believer - John 3:16, Rom 10:9, Eph 1:13-14 (Seed Gal 3:19, Gal 3:29, 1Pe 1:23, 1Jo 3:9)
3. Corporate birth of the church - 1 Cor 15:50-54, 1 Thess 4:13-18, Rev 12:5

Consider that Paul even felt abnormally born in 1 Cor 15:8. Also consider the travail of the Lord's body below...

Isa 53:11 He shall see the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Rom 8:22-25 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

2 Cor 5:1-5 For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, 3because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Rev 12:2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.

God bless

Edited July 18, 2018 by Heb 13:8

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

No, the word for Jesus ascension in Acts 1:9 is "epairó", and the word in 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5 is "harpazo".

These words have two different meanings in context, a lifting up in victory vs being snatched away through a rescue. Jesus didn't need to be snatched away like a thief because He already defeated the devil.

The word "analambanó" in Acts 1:2 is translated "to raise", as to raise in victory because it is finished at the cross.

Well, that's what tradition teaches, but how often has tradition been right?

There are 3 stages to the process of conception and birth..

1. Corporate conception of the church - Acts 2:1-4/Matt 1:20 (Example of Holy Spirit conception)
2. Individual conception seed inside the believer - John 3:16, Rom 10:9, Eph 1:13-14 (Seed Gal 3:19, Gal 3:29, 1Pe 1:23, 1Jo 3:9)
3. Corporate birth of the church - 1 Cor 15:50-54, 1 Thess 4:13-18, Rev 12:5

Consider that Paul even felt abnormally born in 1 Cor 15:8. Also consider the travail of the Lord's body below...

Isa 53:11 He shall see the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Rom 8:22-25 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

2 Cor 5:1-5 For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, 3because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Rev 12:2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.

God bless

Acts 1:9  epairō:  to lift up, raise up, raise on high  That is exactly what happened: Jesus was lifted up...up...into the air.

Rev. 12:5 harpazō:  translated by KJV:  catch up (4x) take by force (3x)  catch away (2x)

In either case, He was taken up. Different writers use different words to express themselves. That does not mean these must therefore be two different events.  I see no proof that these cannot be two writers writing of the same event. It was probably the power of the Holy Spirit that raised Christ up. It will be the power of the Spirit that will raise US up. 

What point were you making with the rest of your post?

 

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Heb 13:8 said:

And there's been believers in Christ that are not catholic who have gone back 2000 years in Stellarium and 100 years in the future and have not found the Rev 12:1-5 alignment. The most accurate alignment was on 9/23/17. 

So Rev 12:1 is in reference to Gen 37:9, and Rev 12:2-5 is in reference to the birth of Jesus and King Herod in the NT and Rev 12:6-17 is in reference to the 70th week. What does Joseph and his family have to do with the birth of Jesus and King Herod and the 70th week?? ?

No RM, Rev 12:1-5 has nothing to do with a birth and/or of Jesus 2000 years ago. Always remember, conception comes before birth. 

Israel birthed Jesus - Incorrect
Israel conceived the Church - Correct

There are 3 stages to the process of conception and birth..

1. Corporate conception of the church - Acts 2:1-4/Matt 1:20 (Example of Holy Spirit conception)
2. Individual conception seed inside the believer - John 3:16, Rom 10:9, Eph 1:13-14 (Seed Gal 3:19, Gal 3:29, 1Pe 1:23, 1Jo 3:9)
3. Corporate birth of the church - 1 Cor 15:50-54, 1 Thess 4:13-18, Rev 12:5

Consider that Paul even felt abnormally born in 1 Cor 15:8. Also consider the travail of the Lord's body below...

Isa 53:11 He shall see the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Rom 8:22-25 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

2 Cor 5:1-5 For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, 3because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Rev 12:2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.

God bless

In this case I must agree with Revelation man! It is a fact: Jesus came from Israel. He was THEIR Messiah. He was birthed from Mary, and Israelite.  The woman in Rev. 12 is Israel. When those in Judea flee, it will be descendants of Jacob fleeing. You do know, most of the people living in Judea today are of Jacob's family line.

It is another FACT: what John saw in the sky is exactly what Virgo would have looked like, the day Jesus was born.  I have spent countless hours on a planetarium looking at various years. I have searched from 10 BC to 10 AD and there is only one time that we see exactly what John wrote: that was in 2 BC. 

We all know that conception comes before birth! That goes without saying.  But John did not write of the conception. He covered the entire life of Christ on earth after birth, in one verse! His purpose was to show John what the dragon DID (a history lesson for John) when Christ was born.  There is little doubt that Mary cried out as she was giving birth. Most women do. But there was no crying out when the church was birthed in the upper room. 

Sorry, but this does not fit the early church.  They were birthed in the Body of Christ in the upper room when Jesus breathed on then and said, "receive the Holy Spirit." They were born again at that moment: they got the Holy Spirit within their spirit as a deposit, a seal and a guarantee. Then at Pentecost they received the Holy Spirit upon - the anointing  - the SAME anointing that Jesus received - to do the same works. The Holy Spirit was so powerful in them that they defeated the devil day after day. 

Satan has not been able to devour the church, and never will.  The church is maturing: they know their rights in Christ. They KNOW they are seated in heavenly places FAR ABOVE all principalities and powers.  

Another birth will be the birth of the Millennial Reign of Christ. The whole earth is groaning for that, and it will soon come. Rev. 12  is not talking about that birth. Neither was John speaking of the rapture event where the church will receive resurrection bodies. 

When Jesus was teaching me this chapter, He said (among other things) "I chose to show John what the Dragon did when I was born. Those first five verses were a 'history lesson' to John" and I heard these words. You can choose to believe it or doubt it: your choice.  I choose to believe what He said. 

[iamlamad]

8 hours ago, Steve Conley said:

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

The context of 1Thes 5:1 began in Chapter 4 verse 13. Paul begins there to inform them concerning those who have died in Christ, those who are asleep. His teaching on the subject continues till 5:10 where he says that both the living and dead (sleep) in Christ shall live together with Him.

1Thes 4:13-5:11 presents what takes place upon Christ's arrival at His parousia (arrival and continuing presence). Our gathering to Him and the beginning of the pouring out of His wrath take place upon the same day.

1Th 4:13  But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14  For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15  For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming (parousia) of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18  Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1Th 5:1  But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Th 5:2  For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3  For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th 5:4  But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Th 5:5  Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1Th 5:6  Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
1Th 5:7  For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
1Th 5:8  But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
1Th 5:9  For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Th 5:10  Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
1Th 5:11  Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

Even though none but God know the day and hour of Christ's appearing and revelation, even the newest of believers can know the times and seasons of His return. Jesus told us in the Olivet discourse what signs would precede His arrival on the day of the Lord. Paul also mentioned some these to the Thessalonians in 2Thes 2:3.

Hallelujah

Sorry, but your diagram is faulty; not following the scriptures.  The DAy of the Lord begins at the 6th seal that comes before the week even begins.  Jacob had to work and extra 7 years for the woman he loved, not 3 1/2 years. The entire week is Jacob's trouble. The church age ends at the pretrib rapture, just before the 6th seal. 

Sorry, but almost everything on this diagram is error. I am sure many prewrathers would agree though. 

[Heb 13:8]

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Acts 1:9  epairō:  to lift up, raise up, raise on high  That is exactly what happened: Jesus was lifted up...up...into the air.

Rev. 12:5 harpazō:  translated by KJV:  catch up (4x) take by force (3x)  catch away (2x)

In either case, He was taken up. Different writers use different words to express themselves. That does not mean these must therefore be two different events.  I see no proof that these cannot be two writers writing of the same event. It was probably the power of the Holy Spirit that raised Christ up. It will be the power of the Spirit that will raise US up. 

iam, you're grasping at straws. Jesus was not taken by force or obtained by robbery. These are the descriptions of the church being taken in rapture. When Jesus comes for His church He is coming like a thief to the world, via obtained by robbery.

1Th 5:2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.

1Th 5:4 But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.

Rev 3:3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

harpazó: to seize, catch up, snatch away
Original Word: ἁρπάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: harpazó
Phonetic Spelling: (har-pad'-zo)
Short Definition: I seize, snatch, obtain by robbery
Definition: I seize, snatch, obtain by robbery.

Quote

What point were you making with the rest of your post?

That the body of Christ has been in gestation for 2000 years up until now. The birth of the church is the first resurrection and rapture.