The context of 1 Thess 5:1

[Salty]

1 hour ago, douggg said:

We get the Day of the Lord begins with hard times, before it gets to what they desire which is the messianic age and the restoration of all things, from...

Amos 5     

18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.

19 As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.

20 Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

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The Day of the Lord actually begins a short time before the great tribulation by a month or so.

The transgression of Desolation act (Daniel 8:12-13) by the Antichrist in 2Thessalonians2:4 triggers the Day of the Lord.

Then a short time later...

The abomination of Desolation image of the beast placed in the temple triggers the great tribulation.

 

I strongly disagree.

The event of God's consuming fire burning man's works off the earth is proof that the "day of the Lord" begins on the very last day of this world.

2 Peter 3:10-12
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
KJV

 

 

[douggg]

3 hours ago, Salty said:

Matt 24:23-26
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, "Lo, here is Christ, or there"; believe it not.

That's not about a rumor. It's about the appearance of a false one who the deceived will be saying that in red. It's means they will actually believe Christ (Messiah) has come.

"Here" or "there" is talking about a location, right?    Rumored to be here or there.     The warning about the false Christs (false Jesus's) is in the next verse.

Quote

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect

To me, a false Christ is someone pretending to be Jesus.    Which I gave three well known examples.     Differently, the Antichrist does not pretend to be Jesus, but is thought to be the messiah instead of Jesus.    And the Antichrist will be against the belief that Jesus was/is the messiah.     "Anti" means to be instead of -- and/or--against.

Edited August 21, 2018 by douggg

[douggg]

3 hours ago, Salty said:

I strongly disagree.

The event of God's consuming fire burning man's works off the earth is proof that the "day of the Lord" begins on the very last day of this world.

2 Peter 3:10-12
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
KJV

 

 

The entire earth will be burned up at that time  And the heavens.  

[iamlamad]

7 hours ago, douggg said:

Please copy and paste where I wrote the King is "confirmed".      The King is "anointed".    It is the covenant that is confirmed for 7 years.

He, the Antichrist, is riding the white horse because he is "instead of", i.e. perceived to be the messiah instead of Jesus.

We go to other text in the bible to figure that out.   Namely the parable of the fig tree.     And the other trees.      The other trees are the fourth empire of the end times, the EU.     And the Gog/Magog nations - Iran, Turkey, Russia.     

The fig tree is Jerusalem.   1067+70 years=2037.    Minus 7 years for the start of the 70th week - is by the end of 2030.     Which is immediately preceded by Gog/Magog.     From that, we are living on the verge.

You are not going to get anything from the sixth seal as to where we are now.       The next event - not counting the Rapture as no-one knows when that takes place - is the formation the 10 leader form of EU government with one leader over them - the liitle horn.       Who eventually becomes the Antichrist, the rider on the white horse in Revelation 6.

 

I may have pasted the wrong word from your post. sorry. 

It seems you imagine the Antichrist gets to choose his own color! OF COURSE he would choose white. But GOD is the author of this book, and for the Antichrist, God chose fiery red!  You are miles off from the intent of the Author. Remember, the first readers of this book lived almost 2000 years ago! God knew that too, and began in John's day with the future from THAT reference point.  In fact, to introduce the book with the seals, He started with Jesus's ascention - no, He started BEFORE Jesus ascended - a time before Christ rose from the dead to be found worthy - for John watched a search that ended in failure, showing us that Christ had not yet ascended. John saw a time BEFORE the Holy Spirit was sent down, to the very moment He was sent down, as Jesus ascended. THIS then is the context of the first seal: 32 AD. He is RIGHTEOUS as proven by the white color. He will have to conquer (actually in every other case that word was translated as overcome) because Satan was and still is the god of this world.  The CHURCH had to conquer or overcome principalities for every new place the Gospel was taken. 

The fig tree is Israel and perhaps Jerusalem. 1948 plus 70 is 2018.  Jesus could well return THIS YEAR.  

All the evidence in scripture shows the church between the 5th and 6th seal. The martyrs of the church age (Stephen was one of the first) wondered how long it would be before judgment would come. they were told they must wait for the full number of martyrs. We are STILL waiting for that full number. When Jesus comes FOR His church, pretrib, that will END the church age, and the full number of martyrs (of the church age) will have arrived in heaven. 

In short, John is telling us the rapture of the church is the NEXT EVENT after the 5th seal, and Paul tells us the Day of the Lord will follow the rapture. That places the church between the 5th and 6th seal. The moment the church is lifted out, THE DAY comes. God's wrath comes - exactly as Rev. 6 tells us. AFter the rapture - at the "last trump" of the feast of trumpets, there will follow ten days of AWE. That will without much doubt be the time between the 6th seal opening and the opening of the 7th seal that officially opens the 70th week.  God in his mercy gives earth 30 minutes of silence. Then the first trumpet comes. It seems very likely the first three trumpet judgments spell out nuclear war.

The trumpets will be the START of God destroying planet earth. But He starts with 1/3 judgments. 

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, Salty said:

I strongly disagree.

The event of God's consuming fire burning man's works off the earth is proof that the "day of the Lord" begins on the very last day of this world.

2 Peter 3:10-12
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
KJV

If the DAY was a 24 hour period, You might have a weak leg to stand on, but the truth is, the DAY is an extended period of time in which many things are accomplished: the Trumpet judgments, the vial judgments, the battle of Armageddon, and on into the 1000 year reign of Christ. Peter only tells us first how the day comes, and then that during that day fire will cleanse the earth. The earth WILL last for the 1000 years, but Jesus will cleanse if first. Later, AFTER the 1000 years, the earth and heavens will disappear and God will create a NEW heaven and earth.  Perhaps that will Still be the Day of the Lord!

[iamlamad]

8 hours ago, douggg said:

No, John was literally in heaven.   By contrast, Daniel, in Daniel 7 has a dream.

OF COURSE He was in heaven, but in heaven saw visions or one long vision. What? Do you imagine the 7 trumpets have already happened? Do you imagine the 70th week has completed? Do you imagine Christ has already come? 

[douggg]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

OF COURSE He was in heaven, but in heaven saw visions or one long vision. What? Do you imagine the 7 trumpets have already happened? Do you imagine the 70th week has completed? Do you imagine Christ has already come? 

I am not understanding your questions because since I believe that none of the seals have been fulfilled yet - then obviously I would not believe the trumpets has been fulfilled nor the 70th week fulfilled.

[douggg]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

It seems you imagine the Antichrist gets to choose his own color!

Why should I think that?    In Revelation, the person appears as being in the Antichrist - King of Israel (illegitimate) role in that one verse.     For most of Revelation, the person is not in the Antichrist role, but in the beast role - 8th (Julio-Claudian) King of the Roman Empire.

[douggg]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

The fig tree is Israel and perhaps Jerusalem. 1948 plus 70 is 2018.  Jesus could well return THIS YEAR.  

Where would the 7 years fit in - if 2018?    

In 2037, based on Jerusalem being the fig tree, the 7 years fitting in - would mean the 7 years have to start before the end of 2030.     Which is around 11 years away.  

[douggg]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

In short, John is telling us the rapture of the church is the NEXT EVENT after the 5th seal, and Paul tells us the Day of the Lord will follow the rapture. That places the church between the 5th and 6th seal.

You have the 7 years of the 70th week in the wrong place on the timeline.    

You have Jesus appearing before the throne of God in the third heaven, and the evil men of the world terrified, wanting to hide in caves...

Then you have the 7 years beginning in the 7th seal.     Then Jesus descending from heaven, 7years later (being visible to the whole world for 7 years) to destroy the beast?     Really, iamlamad ?

Edited August 22, 2018 by douggg