The context of 1 Thess 5:1

[Revelation Man]

3 hours ago, Brother Duke said:

Apostasia does not mean departure of the church.  It means departure from the faith.  Paul goes on to spell it out afterward.  God is going to send them a delusion since they do not believe the truth.  This is the same as Isaiah 66.  It is all in the same context.

 2 Thes 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Isaiah 66:3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offeredswine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations. 4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

Of course it means the Departure of the church, just like my post at the top describes very clearly.

I suggest you have received strong delusion here, even though God was nit speaking about Christians, but I'll play along anyway. 

The facts are the facts. Word-smithing doesn't change the facts. If it meant a DEPARTURE of the Faith then why is only a GATHERING UNTO Christ Jesus spoken about in the passage, but nothing about the FAITH being Departed is spoken of. 

It clearly means the Church must Depart before the Anti-Christ can come forth, thus they NEED NOT FEAR the Day of the Lord....Hence Don't fear!! Do you think Paul lied unto them? The problem of course is you have it all backwards, so you can't fit the puzzle together.

Edited July 5, 2018 by Revelation Man

[Brother Duke]

9 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

If it meant a DEPARTURE of the Faith then why is only a GATHERING UNTO Christ Jesus spoken about in the passage, but nothing about the FAITH being Departed is spoken of. 

It is a departure from truth.  The faithful that have the Holy Spirit will not depart but those believing the lie will.  Paul talks about it the very next verses.

 

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

[Revelation Man]

2 hours ago, Brother Duke said:

It is a departure from truth.  The faithful that have the Holy Spirit will not depart but those believing the lie will.  Paul talks about it the very next verses.

 

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

NO IT IS NOT...........You just do not understand the passage. Show me ANYWHERE in the whole passage that TRUTH or FAITH is spoken of. Its not there, but we see its speaking of the RAPTURE...........The Gathering unto Christ Jesus. 

Jesus could come back and explain to you guys and like the Pharisees you still wouldn't see it because you don't want to see it.  

Edited July 5, 2018 by Revelation Man

[Brother Duke]

2 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

NO IT IS NOT...........You just do not understand the passage. Show me ANYWHERE in the whole passage that TRUTH or FAITH is spoken of. Its not there, but we see its speaking of the RAPTURE...........The Gathering unto Christ Jesus. 

2 Thess 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 

2 Thess 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved

Also

2 Thess 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Believing a lie is the opposite of Truth!  Just the same the gathering to Christ does not happen until the departure and then the man of sin is revealed.  Are you saying there are two gatherings in 2 Thes 2?  One for the Rapture and then the man of sin is revealed and then a 2nd gathering for everyone else?  That would not make sense.  Paul tells us what he was talking about just a couple of sentences later in 2 Thes 2:5-12.

1. The man of sin is revealed.

2. They depart from truth and believe a lie.  <-  Same as Isaiah 66. 

2 Thessalonians 2:1 - 4  is the Thesis Statement.  Then Thessalonians 2:5-12 is the Topic.

 

Edited July 6, 2018 by Brother Duke
typo

[n2thelight]

5 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Of course it means the Departure of the church, just like my post at the top describes very clearly.

I suggest you have received strong delusion here, even though God was nit speaking about Christians, but I'll play along anyway. 

The facts are the facts. Word-smithing doesn't change the facts. If it meant a DEPARTURE of the Faith then why is only a GATHERING UNTO Christ Jesus spoken about in the passage, but nothing about the FAITH being Departed is spoken of. 

It clearly means the Church must Depart before the Anti-Christ can come forth, thus they NEED NOT FEAR the Day of the Lord....Hence Don't fear!! Do you think Paul lied unto them? The problem of course is you have it all backwards, so you can't fit the puzzle together.

Gonna give you this 

II Thessalonians 2:1 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,"

The subject right now, from the above is,the coming of and our gathering to Christ...

II Thessalonians 2:2 "That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is  at hand."

II Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come , except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

Jesus Christ is not gathering anyone to Him, nor is He coming here to earth, except there be a falling away first. The word for "falling away", in the Greek is "apostasy". Jesus told us in His revelation to John, in Revelation 9:11, that "Apollyon" is one of Satan's names, and this name is derived from the word apostasy.

The word "perdition" means "one that perishes". Satan and only Satan has already been condemned to die [to perish] by God. Satan's judgment day has come already back in the first earth age, and he will have no part in the Great White Throne judgment, or any other judgment yet to come. He has already been judged, and sentence by God to death "perdition" [Ezekiel 28 covers this judgment].

What did Paul say again?

Jesus Christ is coming back to this earth, but the saints of Christ will not be gathered to Him until the "son of perdition" [Satan] be revealed first

II Thessalonians 2:4 "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

The "Son of perdition" is Satan and Isaiah just told us this very same thing. Remember, the temple of God is on mount Zion, and "on the side of the North". This person sitting there is sitting in God's seat, pretending to be God: "Showing himself that he is God."

Do you know what Jesus said about this very thing. Jesus called it in Matthew 24:15, the very same thing that Daniel called it in Daniel 9:27; "the Abomination of desolation". A more correct translation in the "James Moffatt translation Bible" is called "The abomination by the desolator".

"Satan claiming to be God" is the abomination, and "he" [Satan] is the desolator, for the entire world will believe him; except for God's elect, and all those who have the seal of God in their minds [foreheads]. The sealed of God have their gospel armor on, and they are ready to face Satan and his system in the spiritual warfare.

[n2thelight]

4 minutes ago, n2thelight said:

Of course it means the Departure of the church, just like my post at the top describes very clearly.

So the Church can't depart until the Church departs,does that make sense to you?

[n2thelight]

3 hours ago, Brother Duke said:

2 Thess 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Just to add to your thought,only those who call themselves Christians can be deceived,as the rest of the world already are.

[Heb 13:8]

22 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

That is NOT THE RAPTURE, that happens during the 70th Week. 

This is where people have a hard time interpreting Rev 12:1-5, is right here.

The word for Jesus ascension in Acts 1:9 is "epairó", and the word in 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5 is "harpazo". These words have two different meanings in context, a lifting up in victory vs being snatched away through a rescue. Jesus didn't need to be snatched away because He already defeated the devil. 

If these passages occurred 2,000 years ago and is only about Jesus then why didn't John use the word "huios" in all three circumstances below. I believe John is describing the child being born as the church (the body of Christ). 

Even Paul said he felt abnormally born in 1 Cor 15:8 because he hadn't received his resurrected body yet, and as we can see in Rev 2:26-27, Rev 12:5 the church is being mentioned here as ruling with Christ with an iron scepter.

Rev 12:1-5 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child (teknon) the moment he was born. 5She gave birth to a son (huios), a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child (teknon) was snatched up to God and to his throne.

[Heb 13:8]

22 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

No, they have REPENTED Just like Malachi 4:5-6 says. That is why they Heed Jesus' voice. Why do you want to ignore Malachi ? 

What makes you believe the Day of the Lord begins at the first seal?

As the metaphorical Elijah, John called people to repentance and a life of obedience, preparing the people of his generation for the coming of Jesus Christ, the One who had come “to seek and to save what was lost” (Luke 19:10) and to establish the ministry of reconciliation (2 Corinthians 5:18)... https://www.gotquestions.org/Elijah-end-times.html

Verse 5
Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet
before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:[15]
"I send you Elijah" — as a means towards your "remembering the law" (Malachi 4:4).[11]
"the prophet": emphatical; not "the Tishbite" as the Septuagint version wrongly inserts instead of prophet;[13] not Elijah in person, who lived in the times of Ahab;[13] for it is in his official, not his personal capacity, that his coming is here predicted.[11]
"The great and dreadful day": The day of final judgment. No other crisis could be named in such terms (see Joel 2:31, whence the words are taken).[9] The Jews interpret that as "before the coming of Christ the son of David".[16] The Talmud interprets (s) this of the sorrows of the Messiah, or which shall be in the days of the Messiah.[17][13]

Verse 6
And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children,
and the heart of the children to their fathers,
lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.[18]
"Lest I come and smite the earth with a curse": that is, with an utter destruction, from which there should be no redemption. In the end, God will so smite the earth, and all, not converted to Him. The prayer and zeal of Elijah will gain a reprieve, in which God will spare the world for the gathering of His own elect, the full conversion of the Jews, which shall fulfill the Apostle's words Romans 11:26, "So shall all Israel be saved."[8]
After the glad tidings, Malachi, and the Old Testament in him, ends with words of awe, telling us of the consequence of the final hardening of the heart; the eternal severance, when the unending end of the everlasting Gospel itself shall be accomplished, and its last grain shall be gathered into the garner of the Lord.[8]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malachi_4

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2 Thess. 2 is all about the Church departing before the Anti-Christ can be RELEASED to come forth. Rev. 11:1-2 has nothing to do with a Greek temple the book was just written in Greek. Those two verses are a METAPHOR for the Two-witnesses, they are to preach to the Jews (inner sanctum/Alter) but not unto the Gentiles. Remember how Jesus' Ministry was to the Jews only? Thus the Two-witnesses have likewise been called unto the Jews only. The Holy Spirit will call the Gentiles unto Repentance. Some do come to repent, they are the Beheaded unto the Alter in the 5th Seal. 

What are your thoughts on episunagógé in 2 Thess 2:1, Heb 10:25 vs episunagó in Matt 24:31, is it same event?

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..

If Israel's sins are atoned for prior to the 70th week, then what is the Day of Atonement for at Christ 2nd coming?

Luke 21:23-24 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Rom 11:25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in,

[Heb 13:8]

23 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

But I do not think the True Church can "Fall Away", either you are of Christ/God or you are not, and will get left behind by the Bridegroom.

I agree. The word apostasy in scripture refers to those who are non believers only, those who aren't born again. The fake church will be falling away......

Matt 13:21 (does not use the word believe) (it uses trouble/persecution) 
Mark 4:17 (does not use the word believe) (it uses trouble/persecution) 
Luke 8:13 (uses the word believe) (aphistémi/depart) 
Rom 8:35, 38-39 (nothing can separate us, even trouble/persecution) 
1 Tim 4:1 ( aphistémi/depart)

Matt 13:21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.

 

Mark 4:17 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.

 

Luke 8:13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.

 

Rom 8:35, 38-39 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

1 Tim 4:1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

 

Luke 8:13 / Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible - which for a while believe: their faith is a temporary one, like that of Simon Magus; which shows it is not true faith; for that is an abiding grace, Christ, who is the author, is the finisher of it, and prays for it, that it fail not. The Persic version renders it, "in the time of hearing they have faith"; and such sort of hearers there are, who, whilst they are hearing, assent to what they hear, but when they are gone, either forget it, or, falling into bad company, are prevailed upon to doubt of it, and disbelieve it. The Arabic version renders it, "they believe for a small time"; their faith do not continue long, nor their profession of it, both are soon dropped: