The context of 1 Thess 5:1

[Revelation Man]

8 hours ago, Brother Duke said:

I say we listen to Paul and not our own opinion.  If we cannot agree there then we will both just have to wait until the end and see what happens.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 

I say you are listening to the KJv who changed the meaning from DEPARTURE to a FALLING AWAY. 

Your little 1 Timothy trick only makes me very wary of you. Its a silly game, just because you post that doesn't mean anything if you are the one posting UNTRUTHS !! You of course can't understand it because you think you already understand it, even though you will find out you were wrong. All you can offer as a REBUT every time is a NOTHING BURGER. 

That is because I am putting forth truths.

[n2thelight]

Bottom line,somebody ain't right,question is are you willing to bet your soul on what you teach,we've been going through this for years,but just know ,I don't debate with any one to prove I'm right,as  I am willing to stand before God,with all that I post!!!!

My postings are my seed plantings,for those who may just happen upon these forums.

[Heb 13:8]

20 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

I don't have a hard time at all, I was calling that September prediction a FAKE PREDICTION, a long time ago. The Church is already Raptured by the time the Woman (Israel) is chased into the Wilderness. Rev. 12:1-5 is just a RETELLING of the Story of Christ, the Dragon trying to kill him via King Herod, and Jesus being birth by Israel (Woman). The Prophesy is in verse 6-18. Rev. 12:1-5 has nothing to do with a Rapture, that is just what I call TWISTED SCRIPTURES. 

I NEVER look to Astrology, and that is what those looking at this "SIGN IN HEAVEN" did, and that is of Satan, I am sorry.

A few questions for you.

1. Why does Rev 12:5 have the word "harpazo" in it if it's not referring to rapture?
2. If Rev 12:1-5 sign occurred 2,000 years ago and is only about Jesus then why didn't John use the word "huios" in all three circumstances in Rev 12:4-5? Why did he use "teknon" twice?
3. Ok, so if Rev 12:1-5 is astrology and of Satan, then where and how do you see it being fulfilled if not in the sun, moon, stars, constellations like scripture says?
4. You do realize that Rev 12:1-5 is the Word of God and not of Satan, and that it is astronomy not astrology, correct?

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I seek the truth at all times, that is my life.

But you just stated that a piece of the Bible is from Satan, Rev 12:1-5. ?

Quote

Luke 21:23-24 is not the Second Coming, 

It's referring to the latter 3.5 years all the way up to the Second Coming when the times of the Gentiles are fulled, Rom 11. The Second Coming is in the sun, moon, stars reference in Matt 24:29-30, Mark 13:24, Luke 21:25-27, Joel 2:31, Rev 6:12-17.

Luke 21:20-24 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. 23How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

God bless

[Revelation Man]

2 hours ago, n2thelight said:

Bottom line,somebody ain't right,question is are you willing to bet your soul on what you teach,we've been going through this for years,but just know ,I don't debate with any one to prove I'm right,as  I am willing to stand before God,with all that I post!!!!

My postings are my seed plantings,for those who may just happen upon these forums.

Yes, the overall scripture is VERY CLEAR the Church is Raptured to Heaven for 7 Years at least, and then returns with Jesus Christ. It clearly states this in Rev. ch. 19 with no IF, AND'S or BUTS. The Church was an insertion into Gods plans, if Israel would have accepted Christ there would have been no Church, then again, God knew they would reject the Messiah. This is why we have a BEAST SYSTEM that is DIVIDED by the Church Age.....a Statue that is one continuous statue, IF we take away the Church Age and a 70th Week Judgment that has a 2000 year Church Age in between the 69th and 70th week. 

Something else that I am thinking on, all of those Jesus quotes about THIS GENERATION. Could it be that it was the Generation that was meant to see Jesus as the King of Kings but they REJECTED him? Just a thought there, nothing concrete, just thought about that, I will have to research and pray about it. Even though we know God knew what would happen, God still had to give Israel a chance to accept Christ as their Messiah. 

The Fact is the Church will be taken and then Israel will repent. 

God Bless.

[n2thelight]

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

The Fact is the Church will be taken and then Israel will repent. 

Where is Judah?

I ask because the rapture is predicated upon Israel and the  Church being separate,which by the way is not true.

The two house won't be joined back until the return of Christ,so does that happen at the rapture or the 2nd coming?

Edited July 7, 2018 by n2thelight

[n2thelight]

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

Something else that I am thinking on, all of those Jesus quotes about THIS GENERATION. Could it be that it was the Generation that was meant to see Jesus as the King of Kings but they REJECTED him? Just a thought there, nothing concrete, just thought about that, I will have to research and pray about it. Even though we know God knew what would happen, God still had to give Israel a chance to accept Christ as their Messiah. 

The generation was when Israel became a state,parable of the fig tree

[Revelation Man]

16 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

A few questions for you.

1. Why does Rev 12:5 have the word "harpazo" in it if it's not referring to rapture?

Because Jesus was HARPAZOED to Heaven. The word Rapture of course came from Harpazo, it is Latin for Harpazo and it was called Rapio, on English we translated HARPAZO as a seizing or snatching away. Its all the same, it all means to be carried away by some "Supernatural Force". 

Definition: Rapture

(1). The state of being transported by a lofty emotion; ecstasy.

(2). often raptures An expression of ecstatic feeling: raptures of joy.

(3-A). The transporting of a person from one place to another, especially to heaven, by supernatural means. (3-B) Rapture An event in the eschatology of certain Christian groups in which believers in Christ will be taken up to heaven either prior to or at the Second Coming.

~ from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition copyright ©2013 by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. The blue words are this blogger’s emphasis.

Definition: Harpazo

1. to seize, carry off by force

2. to seize on, claim for one’s self eagerly

3. to snatch out or away

~ from Thayer’s (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

So was Jesus taken to Heaven Supernaturally ? Yes of course, the Holy Spirit took Jesus to Heaven. Of Course Jesus is God the Son/Redeemer. 

Yes, we know that Rev. 12:5 was Jesus being taken up to Heaven. So he was TAKEN UP in Acts 1:9 and Jesus was TAKEN UP in Rev. 12:5. Jesus went from Earth to Heaven. Its the male child (not the man child) Jesus that is taken to Heaven. So its referring of course to Jesus being taken up to Heaven to sit at the Right Hand of God the Father.

16 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

2. If Rev 12:1-5 sign occurred 2,000 years ago and is only about Jesus then why didn't John use the word "huios" in all three circumstances in Rev 12:4-5? Why did he use "teknon" twice?

This kind of stuff amuses me, but I will play along. As you most likely know in the genealogies of old they very rarely mentioned any female names, so we only got the male genealogy. So it did not need to be specifically mentioned in all reality, when a child via genealogy was being spoken of it was always a MALE CHILD, so John just spoke of Jesus as the child twice, but it seems he wanted everyone to be sure what he was speaking of so he threw in ONE TIME, a different word, and stated it was a MALE SON (Huios), which is probably a good thing, but the fact is all genealogies in those days were about the MALE CHILD, so saying "TEKNON" meant a MALE SON also in reality didn't it?  You see these trivial trivialities always have something behind them that takes care of itself. I was asked this a few years ago. Its Jesus being taken to Heaven, he was a MALE SON........CHILD. Its all the same. Only the MALES were in the genealogies for the most part and everyone knows that by reading the Old Testament.

16 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

3. Ok, so if Rev 12:1-5 is astrology and of Satan, then where and how do you see it being fulfilled if not in the sun, moon, stars, constellations like scripture says?

None of the bible is of Satan, BUT....... those who falsely interpreted this via using Astrology were IN ERROR. I knew that when they started using the signs of the Zodiac, come on man, that is elementary stuff there, we don't mingle in Babylonian FALSE RELIGIONS !! Chapter 15 starts out with angels saying its a SIGN ALSO, its not STARS.........It was a Vision John SAW in Heaven, that's all. 

As per what it means brother, its a CODE for us to understand who the Woman, the male son [child] and the Dragon is, without John espousing what it was because guess who was watching over his every move and the Churches every move? Rome, so John couldn't say anything about Israel, after all Rome had just destroyed Jerusalem. If John had of said that Israel is protected by God, the the Romans would have saw that as treason/sedition. The very book of Revelation might have been forbidden etc. etc. Thus it was ENCODED, plus God gives us parables/riddles so that He can tell us things and the world will not understand it, even though they hear it and see it.

The CODE is seen in Genesis 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

So the Sun (Jacob), Moon (Rachel) and 11 Stars (Josephs 11 Brothers) = Israel. Thus the Woman in Rev. ch. 12,  with 12 Stars or 12 Crowns = Israel. 

The Red Dragon = Satan, we know a 1/3 of the Angels followed him. 

The Male Child or Son is Jesus Christ whom the Dragon sought to kill via King Herod. Jesus went to be at the Right Hand of the Father. 

The ABOVE is simply a CODE. The Prophecy is about verses 6-17. But of course we needed a code to understand it without giving it away. In Rev. 17 we are told about Kings that have FALLEN and ONE KING THAT IS.......But the Prophecy is about the Future Anti-Christ, LIKEWISE, this Rev. 12 Prophecy is about the Dragon, using the Anti-Christ to chase the Woman (Israel) into the Wilderness while trying to Kill her, but God via EAGLES WINGS protects her, then the Red Dragon via the Anti-Christ turns to go after the REMNANT CHURCH who keep the commandments of Jesus Christ, they are the Beheaded under the Alter and those of Rev. 20:4. 

Its JUST A CODE Brother, as a matter of fact, the book of Revelation has 404 verses and 289 use Old Testament references, thus the book of Revelation can be understood by using the Old Testament to DECODE IT !!

16 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

4. You do realize that Rev 12:1-5 is the Word of God and not of Satan, and that it is astronomy not astrology, correct?

Quote

Again, I understand all the bible is the word of God, using Astrology to try to understand a passage in the bible is a NO.....NO. That is my point.

16 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

But you just stated that a piece of the Bible is from Satan, Rev 12:1-5. ?

Quote

No I did not, that is you twisting what I said. I stated the Rev. 12 "THEORY" about the Astrological SIGN being of God is a flat out fib. Its just not true, it is of Satan. Rev. 12:1-5 is not of Satan, its just you guys not understanding what it means. But anyone, and I repeat ANYONE that uses Astrology to try and put forth a Prophecy about God is doing the Devils work, even if they do not realize it. We do not use Astrology brother. 

16 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

It's referring to the latter 3.5 years all the way up to the Second Coming when the times of the Gentiles are fulled, Rom 11. The Second Coming is in the sun, moon, stars reference in Matt 24:29-30, Mark 13:24, Luke 21:25-27, Joel 2:31, Rev 6:12-17.

Luke 21:20-24 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. 23How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

The Time of the Gentiles is fulfilled by the Rapture, this is why Israel's EYES will then be opened. Israel had their CHANCE, they Rejected Jesus/God, then the Church was given the Mantle of taking the Gospel unto the lost world. When the Church is Raptured, Israel will once again be on CENTER STAGE for all the world to see. She will Repent, Jesus will rule from Jerusalem 1000 years. 

1.) God dealt with Israel.......God saw Israel as Dead Men's Bones for nigh 2000 years.

2.) God uses the Church to preach Christ Crucified for 2000 years then He Raptures us to Heaven to Marry the Lamb. 

3.) God/Jesus uses Israel to once again show His power and Mercy, he will deliver Israel, and forgive them, then rule from Jerusalem for 1000 years.

Edited July 7, 2018 by Revelation Man

[n2thelight]

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

The Time of the Gentiles is fulfilled by the Rapture, this is why Israel's EYES will then be opened. Israel had their CHANCE, they Rejected Jesus/God, then the Church was given the Mantle of taking the Gospel unto the lost world. When the Church is Raptured, Israel will once again be on CENTER STAGE for all the world to see. She will Repent, Jesus will rule from Jerusalem 1000 years. 

The time of the Gentiles is over when Christ feet hit the ground,at the 7th and last trump.

[Brother Duke]

5 hours ago, n2thelight said:

The time of the Gentiles is over when Christ feet hit the ground,at the 7th and last trump.

Hi n2thelight,

Do we even have the correct understanding about the fullness of the gentiles?

Luke 21:20-24

20And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. 24And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

[Heb 13:8]

14 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Because Jesus was HARPAZOED to Heaven. The word Rapture of course came from Harpazo, it is Latin for Harpazo and it was called Rapio, on English we translated HARPAZO as a seizing or snatching away. Its all the same, it all means to be carried away by some "Supernatural Force". 

Definition: Rapture

(1). The state of being transported by a lofty emotion; ecstasy.

(2). often raptures An expression of ecstatic feeling: raptures of joy.

(3-A). The transporting of a person from one place to another, especially to heaven, by supernatural means. (3-B) Rapture An event in the eschatology of certain Christian groups in which believers in Christ will be taken up to heaven either prior to or at the Second Coming.

~ from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition copyright ©2013 by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. The blue words are this blogger’s emphasis.

Definition: Harpazo

1. to seize, carry off by force

2. to seize on, claim for one’s self eagerly

3. to snatch out or away

~ from Thayer’s (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

So was Jesus taken to Heaven Supernaturally ? Yes of course, the Holy Spirit took Jesus to Heaven. Of Course Jesus is God the Son/Redeemer. 

Yes, we know that Rev. 12:5 was Jesus being taken up to Heaven. So he was TAKEN UP in Acts 1:9 and Jesus was TAKEN UP in Rev. 12:5. She went from Earth to Heaven. Its the male child (not the man child) Jesus that is taken to Heaven. So its referring of course to Jesus being taken up to Heaven to sit at the Right Hand of God the Father.

No, Jesus was not harpazo'd to heaven. The word for Jesus ascension in Acts 1:9 is "epairó", and the word in 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5 is "harpazo". These words have two different meanings in context, a lifting up in victory vs being snatched away through a rescue. Jesus didn't need to be snatched away because He already defeated the devil. 

Quote

This kind of stuff amuses me, but I will play along. As you most likely know in the genealogies of old they very rarely mentioned any female names, so we only got the male genealogy. So it did not need to be specifically mentioned in all reality, when a child via genealogy was being spoken of it was always a MALE CHILD, so John just spoke of Jesus as the child twice, but it seems he wanted everyone to be sure what he was peaking of so he threw in ONE TIME, a different word, and stated it was a MALE SON (Huios), which is probably a good thing, but the fact is all genealogies in those days were about the MALE CHILD, so saying "TEKNON" mean a MALE SON also in reality didn't it?  You see these trivial trivialities always have something behind them that takes care of itself. I was asked this a few years ago. Its Jesus being taken ti Heaven, he was a MALE SON........CHILD. Its all the same. Only the MALES were in the genealogies for the most part and everyone knows that by reading the Old Testament.

Well, amusement comes through lack of knowledge, no?

Matt 9:2 Some men brought to him a paralyzed man, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the man, "Take heart, son (teknon); your sins are forgiven."

1 Thess 5:5 You are all children (huios) of the light and children ( huios) of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness.

1 Jhn 3:2 Dear friends, now we are children (teknon) of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

Quote

None of the bible is of Satan, BUT....... those who falsely interpreted this via using Astrology were IN ERROR. I knew that when they started using the signs of the Zodiac, come on man, that is elementary stuff there, we don't mingle in Babylonian FALSE RELIGIONS !! Chapter 15 starts out with angels saying it a SIGN ALSO, its not STARS.........It was a Vision John SAW in Heaven, that's all.

As per what it means brother, its a CODE for us to understand who the Woman, the male son [child] and the Dragon is, without John espousing what it was because guess who was watching over his every move and the Churches? Rome, so John couldn't say anything about Israel, after all Rome had just destroyed Jerusalem. If John had of said that Israel is protected by God, the the Romans would have saw that as treason/sedition. The very book of Revelation might have been forbidden etc. etc. Thus it was ENCODED, plus God gives us parables/riddles so that he can tel us things the world does not understand, even though they hear it and see it.

The CODE is seen in Genesis 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

So the Sun (Jacob), Moon (Rachel) and 11 Stars (Josephs 11 Brothers) = Israel. Thus the Woman with 12 Stars/Crowns = Israel.

The Red Dragon = Satan, we know a 1/3 of the Angels followed him.

The Male Child or Son is Jesus Christ whom the Dragon sought to kill via King Herod. Jesus went to be at the Right Hand of God.

The ABOVE is simply a CODE. The Prophecy is about verses 6-17. But of course we needed a code to understand it without giving it away. In Rev. 17 we are told about Kings that have FALLEN and ONE KING THAT IS.......But the Prophecy is about the Future Ant-Christ, LIKEWISE, this Rev. 12 Prophecy is about the Dragon, using the Anti-Christ to chase the Woman (Israel) into the Wilderness while trying t Kill her, but God via EAGLES WINGS protects her, then the Red Dragon via the Anti-Christ turns to go after the REMNANT CHURCH who keep the commandments of Jesus Christ, they are the Beheaded under the Alter and those of Rev. 20:4.

Its JUST A CODE Brother, as a matter of fact, the book of Revelation has 404 verses and 289 use Old Testament references, thus the book of Revelation can be understood by using the Old Testament to DECODE IT !!

No, the Rev 12 sign is using corporate entities, not singular. The constellations are parallel to astronomy, not astrology.

1. Woman - Israel
2. Child - Body of Christ
3. Dragon - Antichrist system

Job 9:9 He is the Maker of the Bear and Orion, the Pleiades and the constellations of the south.

Job 38:32 Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasons or lead out the Bear with its cubs?

Quote

The Time of the Gentiles is fulfilled by the Rapture, this is why Israel's EYES will then be opened. Israel had their CHANCE, they Rejected Jesus/God, then the Church was given the Mantle of taking the Gospel unto the lost world. When the Church is Raptured, Israel will once again be on CENTER STAGE for all the world to see. She will Repent, Jesus will rule from Jerusalem 1000 years.

1.) God dealt with Israel.......God saw Israel as Dead Men's Bones for nigh 2000 years.

2.) God uses the Church to preach Christ Crucified for 2000 years the Raptures us t Heaven to Marry the Lamb.

3.) God/Jesus uses Israel to once again to show His power and Mercy, he will deliver Israel, and forgive them, then rule from Jerusalem for 1000 years.

No, Luke 21:20-28 is referring to the latter half of the 70th week. God bless.

Edited July 7, 2018 by Heb 13:8