Tongues.

[n2thelight]

Tongues won't be spoken again until the Elect are delivered up to satan

Matthew 10:19 "But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak."

This order that Jesus gave His disciples on their first missionary journey, is identical to the warning that Jesus gave to His elect, living in the final generation, recorded in Mark 13:11, and given above.

This Speaking of the Holy Spirit of God through your mouth is the cloven tongue that was spoken on Pentecost day, that so many call the "unknown tongue" today. It was not unknown, for Acts 2:7, 8 specifies that everyone from all over the world heard the speaking in their own language. "And they were all amazed and marveled, saying one to another, "Behold, are not all these which speak Galileans?' [7] "And how hear we every man in our own tongue [language], wherein we were born? [8] That means in their own neighborhood dialect. No interpreter was necessary.

Matthew 10:20 "For it is not ye that speak, but the spirit of your Father which speaketh in you."

That Spirit is the Holy Spirit of God that will speak in you. Any man can babble on, and pretend to speak a new language (gibberish), but no man can imitate the Holy Spirit of God. Babbling is confusion, and God is not the author of confusion. This tongue is the evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit of God. As used in the final generation, Peter calls our attention to it in the Book of Acts.

Acts 2:16 "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel:" Quoting from Joel 2:28-31.

Acts 2:17-21 gives us the entire quotation; "And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:" [verse 17].

[enoob57]

12 hours ago, Cletus said:

you cant really evaluate any of the gifts of The Spirit by scripture, but what Paul said concerning tongues is clear.  however because you cant evaluate the gifts by scripture does not make them null or void, nor is it a reason to forbid.  even more just because there are some bad apples out there, and it is more than a few, that does not nullify or void what Jesus said personally, or what Paul wrote. 

Well I am sure that Scripture is intended by God to be the one source whereby all else is to be measured... and a thing that is said to be of God and cannot be measured by Scripture is going to remain suspect by myself... one of the things I see in Scripture is that miracles then, that were performed, none could doubt the veracity of; for even the enemies of Christ were trying to explain the self evident happenstance and power displayed thereof as from the devil... That is not the case today and anyone willing to walk in the light as He is in the light -truth- can exercise investigative examination of said miracles and find a personal conclusion of the same.... and those involved cry blaspheme of The Holy Spirit when in actuality The Holy Spirit wants His works to be examined

John 14:11

11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
KJV

So when God wants us to examine for the sake of veracity and they are crying blaspheme to do so what s _ Spirit do you believe this to be of? 

12 hours ago, Cletus said:

anytime a genuine Christian is around and the gifts are flowing, you know.  even in worship, you cant really evaluate that by scripture... but those of us who worship in Spirit and truth know exactly what it is... ever heard that cindy morgan song... higher.... higher.    even putting the personal relationship we have with God to words for someone that dont know God... they really dont understand those words, even the words in scripture.  there is a big difference between head knowledge and heart knowledge.  and its not really a feeling, it is an experience.  and until you tread there you dont know.   so I am not really seeing any validity to the argument that something by scripture cant be evaluated, at least for this subject.  for other topics i can see that, but not here.

I'm going to say something here that will not be understood unless there is new birth within the being:

2 Cor 5:17

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
KJV

Many many people do not know how to take the Scripture and evaluate reality of God... they remain in concepts and thinking that were before they were saved and forcibly make them fit in their present lives. This is what denying the power of God is -not allowing complete and total transformation of mind in all things... in the above 2 Cor 5:17 how much is to change in ones life?
Examples of this is seen in The Scritpures:
Do good to your enemies... do good and hurt not.
The Scriptures are to mean more to you than all else and priority in living the concepts reflects the percentage of this truth.
This world and the bodies we are held within no longer have the priority of anything but death and separation from.
God  'IS' everything to focus upon and others around this center receive the fruit of this focus and self is evacuated for it no longer remains anything of importance to be considered.
Everything is pure to the pure because no place is given to the devil but the rebuke of the Lord and judgment of eternal hell.
There exist only One Opinion, One Life, One Truth and will not rest till assured by The Scriptures that it 'The Presence of God' is present within.
While remaining  here one will not be settled in arrival of these things but will be in a press to increase in them.
The number one desire is to be with Jesus in fulness.
etc.
Most of Christendom today do not have these sort of priorities as they walk … in fact they are consumed with sensual fulfillments as that being the priorities from God...
However for those who do they have this promise from God

Eph 5:11

11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
KJV

2 Peter 1:8-11

8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
KJV
 

 

[enoob57]

38 minutes ago, Cletus said:

someone already got banned from this thread from speaking their mind on that.

*************************************************************************************************************************************************************

 

this is where this ends.  I have stated my case, and you yours.  and just as i said from the beginning of this thread people wont agree.  on this topic the only thing we will be able to agree on is to disagree. 

 

 

No not exactly as we are speaking of the Scripture where God is asking everyone to examine the truth of the supernatural wonders He was performing and today to question by investigation of it all they call blaspheming The Holy Spirit. Does this s _ Spirit of today match what you read of Christ then?

[enoob57]

17 minutes ago, Cletus said:

Getting into what spirit someone is of is not my concern.  but when we do investigation on whats previously been said here in this thread...  

The s _ Spirit of sayings is one of our responsibilities given to us by God to test... I can understand why you did not wish to answer my question; the answer was quite obvious  
 

1 John 4:1

4 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
KJV
 

 

[Wade8888]

On 8/3/2018 at 9:46 AM, Alan Hales said:

Can anyone give me six of the operations of tongues that the Bible records.

I don't know of six operations, but I will list some operations I know of .

 

1) Prayer language. It is to help you pray the will of God. I pray in tongues all the time.

2) Worship. I sing in tongues, especially when I don't know the words to the praise and worship song being led in.

3) With interpretation, which is a different type of tongue, it is equal to prophecy, as per Paul's teaching in Corinthians.

 

I used Google Translate on my tongues one time, and it was saying "Praise God, Praise God" in a combination of Greek and Hawaiian.

This is as it should be, as it is one or more natural languages being supernaturally imparted to me by the Holy Spirit.

 

Lately, my prayer language has changed to a different dialect which has more total syllables in it.

 

I have "interpreted" tongues one time before, and I don't recommend lightly doing it. I am still "Trying the Spirits" on that 14 years after the fact, because it was a quote from the Bible which was implying a Judgement from God, with a promise to true believers. Several large natural disasters have happened in this area in that time period since then.

 

Again, I don't recommend lightly seeking tongues and interpretation. If God gives it to you, be blessed with it, and if he doesn't give it to you, be blessed without it.

Edited January 1, 2019 by Wade8888

[enoob57]

The one thing Tongues does is places reliance upon sensual aspects of being apart from The Scripture... this is just obvious to the very fact of the issue. Now any thing that bypasses Scripture by non-communicable form leaves a must reliance on other than Scripture and this is the practice of tongues! Why would anyone want this? 

1 John 2:16-17

16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
KJV

Note the sensual aspects along with the world passes away BUT 'he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever'  How does tongues fulfill this in any way?

[Wade8888]

33 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

The one thing Tongues does is places reliance upon sensual aspects of being apart from The Scripture... this is just obvious to the very fact of the issue. Now any thing that bypasses Scripture by non-communicable form leaves a must reliance on other than Scripture and this is the practice of tongues! Why would anyone want this? 

1 John 2:16-17

16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
KJV

Note the sensual aspects along with the world passes away BUT 'he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever'  How does tongues fulfill this in any way?

I don't believe in a closed canon of scripture, because "I AM THAT I AM: I CHANGE NOT" and because "Jesus Christ, the Same Yesterday, and Today, and Forever".

 

Thus if God does not change, then he doesn't replace Inspiration with something else. Therefore it is conceivable that God could inspire a person to speak or write "new"(new to us, not new to God,) scriptures. This is how the "Gift fo Tongues" and the "Gift of Interpretation" OR "Prophecy" works. When you really are moved by the Holy Spirit to utter something under the auspice of these Gifts, then it is actually equal to scripture, provided it is the "real thing".

 

To be honest with you, on many occasions, the "Tongues and Interpretation" ends up being a direct quote or a paraphrase of one or more scriptures from the Bible. Sometimes it ends up being a parable that agrees with the Bible. I've heard tongues that were direct quotes. I've heard paraphrases. I've heard "new" parables that agree with the Bible, and I've heard "new" utterances of other types that agreed with the Bible. I've also encountered people faking tongues and saying something that wasn't in agreement with the Bible...it happens.

 

Edit:

But if you are concerned about the tarnishing of scripture, I need to point out that Protestants removed the Apocrypha from scripture because it became obvious that it was not inspired and infallible.

 

There are still several books in the Old Testament that clearly did not literally happen. Should we also remove those stories? As the Flood of Noah did not happen; Based on actual geologic evidence, it has been billions of years since the last time the Earth was fully flooded, but the story of Noah claims that this happened about 4000 years ago. So we cannot claim the story of Noah's Flood to be literally true.

 

What about Samuel? Was he really speaking for God when he ordered Saul to kill infants in a city? Is this "inspired and infallible"? I hope not, seeing as how it is contrary to the promise in the book of Ezekiel, where God said he doesn't hold the sins of the Fathers against the Sons.

 

But Pastors write new books all the time, and they even claim God told them to write the book and "helped" them to write the book. For example, Jimmy Swaggart wrote two entire volumes of Bible commentaries, and at least 3 or 4 study bibles, and he claims "God told him to do so, and told him how to do it." But he doesn't claim to be "inspired" or "infallible" because he believes in a closed canon, even though the claim of God telling him to write these books seems to run contrary to the notion of a closed canon. He claims to be an "evangelist", but some of his associate pastors have at times called him an "Apostle". Do you believe God would tell him to write a study bible and tell him what the notes should be? I believe God could in principle tell a pastor to write a study Bible and dictate the notes to him. But isn't that the same thing as "Inspiration"?!

Edited January 1, 2019 by Wade8888

[enoob57]

7 hours ago, Wade8888 said:

I don't believe in a closed canon of scripture, because "I AM THAT I AM: I CHANGE NOT" and because "Jesus Christ, the Same Yesterday, and Today, and Forever".

 

Thus if God does not change, then he doesn't replace Inspiration with something else. Therefore it is conceivable that God could inspire a person to speak or write "new"(new to us, not new to God,) scriptures. This is how the "Gift fo Tongues" and the "Gift of Interpretation" OR "Prophecy" works. When you really are moved by the Holy Spirit to utter something under the auspice of these Gifts, then it is actually equal to scripture, provided it is the "real thing".

 

To be honest with you, on many occasions, the "Tongues and Interpretation" ends up being a direct quote or a paraphrase of one or more scriptures from the Bible. Sometimes it ends up being a parable that agrees with the Bible. I've heard tongues that were direct quotes. I've heard paraphrases. I've heard "new" parables that agree with the Bible, and I've heard "new" utterances of other types that agreed with the Bible. I've also encountered people faking tongues and saying something that wasn't in agreement with the Bible...it happens.

 

Edit:

But if you are concerned about the tarnishing of scripture, I need to point out that Protestants removed the Apocrypha from scripture because it became obvious that it was not inspired and infallible.

 

There are still several books in the Old Testament that clearly did not literally happen. Should we also remove those stories? As the Flood of Noah did not happen; Based on actual geologic evidence, it has been billions of years since the last time the Earth was fully flooded, but the story of Noah claims that this happened about 4000 years ago. So we cannot claim the story of Noah's Flood to be literally true.

 

What about Samuel? Was he really speaking for God when he ordered Saul to kill infants in a city? Is this "inspired and infallible"? I hope not, seeing as how it is contrary to the promise in the book of Ezekiel, where God said he doesn't hold the sins of the Fathers against the Sons.

 

But Pastors write new books all the time, and they even claim God told them to write the book and "helped" them to write the book. For example, Jimmy Swaggart wrote two entire volumes of Bible commentaries, and at least 3 or 4 study bibles, and he claims "God told him to do so, and told him how to do it." But he doesn't claim to be "inspired" or "infallible" because he believes in a closed canon, even though the claim of God telling him to write these books seems to run contrary to the notion of a closed canon. He claims to be an "evangelist", but some of his associate pastors have at times called him an "Apostle". Do you believe God would tell him to write a study bible and tell him what the notes should be? I believe God could in principle tell a pastor to write a study Bible and dictate the notes to him. But isn't that the same thing as "Inspiration"?!

Two points that God makes in this area: 

The sufficiency of Scripture... nothing else is needed according to God as stated below
2 Tim 3:15-17

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
KJV

We are to control our imaginations by the sufficiency of Scripture

2 Cor 10:5

5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
KJV

This clearly you are in violation of with God.... your reasoning is to be with God not you and the world around you!

[firestormx]

11 hours ago, enoob57 said:

The one thing Tongues does is places reliance upon sensual aspects of being apart from The Scripture... this is just obvious to the very fact of the issue. Now any thing that bypasses Scripture by non-communicable form leaves a must reliance on other than Scripture and this is the practice of tongues! Why would anyone want this? 

Tongues doesn't place a reliance on the sensual but on the Holy Spirit of God. Why? Because the act of speaking in tongues is an act of faith. In Acts 2:4 it says WE speak and the HOLY SPIRIT gives the utterance. We give the sound but the Holy Spirit gives the utterance or words. That can't happen without faith. We control the volume while God controls the words. To speak in tongues is impossible if it's real without a complete dependence on the Holy Spirit of God.

 Also when Paul said in 1 Cor. 14:5 that Prophecy is preferred unless the biblical tongues are interpreted. It was because God gives the utterance or words in both Prophecy and speaking in tongues. But with speaking in Tongues nobody understands the speaker without an interpretation. If there is an interpretation of the spoken tongues then Prophecy isn't preferred because you have already heard the direct words of God just like in the cases of Biblical prophecy. The word UNLESS is the key word in 1 Cor.14:5. 

Speaking in Tongues is an act of faith. It is God providing the words just like in the OT when the Spirit of God would come upon a Prophet or king. I  know of no other way to say this other than the bible verse of Acts 2:4 We speak as the Holy Spirit gives the utterance. 

[Alan Hales]

17 hours ago, Wade8888 said:

I don't know of six operations, but I will list some operations I know of .

 

1) Prayer language. It is to help you pray the will of God. I pray in tongues all the time.

2) Worship. I sing in tongues, especially when I don't know the words to the praise and worship song being led in.

3) With interpretation, which is a different type of tongue, it is equal to prophecy, as per Paul's teaching in Corinthians.

 

I used Google Translate on my tongues one time, and it was saying "Praise God, Praise God" in a combination of Greek and Hawaiian.

This is as it should be, as it is one or more natural languages being supernaturally imparted to me by the Holy Spirit.

 

Lately, my prayer language has changed to a different dialect which has more total syllables in it.

 

I have "interpreted" tongues one time before, and I don't recommend lightly doing it. I am still "Trying the Spirits" on that 14 years after the fact, because it was a quote from the Bible which was implying a Judgement from God, with a promise to true believers. Several large natural disasters have happened in this area in that time period since then.

 

Again, I don't recommend lightly seeking tongues and interpretation. If God gives it to you, be blessed with it, and if he doesn't give it to you, be blessed without it.

These are some operations of tongues, Which are very important for every Christian, That's why God gave them to the Church.

[1]Foreign languages, Acts 2: 4--11. God can and will use anyone who is baptised in the Holy Ghost to use these tongues to speak to a foreigner.

[2]Tongues that need an interpretation, 1 Cor 12: 10.

[3]Tongues the are a mystery, 1 Cor 14: 2, a "Mystery" is a hidden secret, NOT hidden from us, But hidden for us, and will be revealed as we speak in this operation of tongues. 1 Cor 14: 12--13..

[4]Tongues that build us up. 1 Cor 14: 4. Jude 20.

[5]Tongues that are for our spirit to pray to God with, 1 Cor 14: 14--15.

[6]Tongues to praise God in the spirit with, 1 Cor 14: 15--17.

[7]Tongues of Angels 1 Cor 13: 1.

[8]Tongues that the Holy Spirit uses to intercede for us through, Rom 8: 26, so all things can work for our good, V28.