We Don't Do Sermons

[Michael37]

2 minutes ago, walla299 said:

Quite a bit, actually. Its called a community for a reason even if its only a small number of believers. Why do you seem to have such a huge hatred for the the church? Again, Paul was pretty clear about the authority structure in his letter to Timothy.

We hate the pagan counterfeit that masquerades as the ekklesia of God. I could equally say why do you hate authentic simple in-home fellowships based on the NT in all aspects with much koinonia and oikos?

[Michael37]

3 minutes ago, walla299 said:

Interesting attitude displayed here, but I'm not seeing much in the way of exhortation or even of patient instruction like Paul talked about.

I patiently exhort you to do due diligence on these verses, walla299

Tit 1:8-16
(8)  But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
(9)  Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
(10)  For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
(11)  Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
(12)  One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
(13)  This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
(14)  Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
(15)  Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
(16)  They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
 

[walla299]

Just now, Michael37 said:

We hate the pagan counterfeit that masquerades as the ekklesia of God. I could equally say why do you hate authentic simple in-home fellowships based on the NT in all aspects with much koinonia and oikos?

Why don't we use some English words? Your use of the Greek ones doesn't impress me.

The problem I have with what you're posting is with the attitude displayed, and that it goes against much of what's written in the NT concerning the authority structure for the local bodies of believers. Others have posted the same and I'm not going over the same ground again. The modern church isn't perfect. Far from it. I don't see where what you're advocating is going to improve things.

[Michael37]

1 minute ago, walla299 said:

Why don't we use some English words? Your use of the Greek ones doesn't impress me.

The problem I have with what you're posting is with the attitude displayed, and that it goes against much of what's written in the NT concerning the authority structure for the local bodies of believers. Others have posted the same and I'm not going over the same ground again. The modern church isn't perfect. Far from it. I don't see where what you're advocating is going to improve things.

I'm not trying to impress anyone. The Greek words are in circulation and carry the meaning better for some and not others in a way similar to what translation or paraphrase is preferred or abhorred. Can you give me a Scripture that teaches in-home gatherings go against what is written concerning the authority structure for local bodies of beleivers, please? I can't seem to find one. 

All those I fellowship with consider our association to be a vast improvement on the institutional/denominational models. I do not press anyone against their will, that would be counterproductive. I will admit to wanting discussion on this topic so thanks to all who obliged. 

[Sevenseas]

8 hours ago, Michael37 said:

None of what you have posted in any way resembles our regular gatherings and continual association, Sevenseas. We are veheminently opposed to NAR and Emergent and any deviation from the Scripture. Have you people not familiarised yourselves with all the references to simple gatherings of the early Christians who met in homes? A degree from a seminary will get the professional clergy a living, how many of the 12 disciples had them? The way Jesus taught is quite different from the Greek and Roman style of rhetoric and philosophy that the "professionals" cultivate as if God only speaks through their sermon points.

 

I did not say you were NAR..but what you describe sounds like you have developed your own style of winging it

why do you state you are vehemently opposed to deviation from scripture when what you describe is a deviation from scripture...oh but you do not think so

that is exactly how all the groups you say you are opposed launched themselves

I never mentioned a degree from anywhere, but Paul WAS highly educated in spite of some peoples disdain for that sort of thing as though it was a sin..and since he was personally chosen by Jesus...like the 12...and since he wrote about 30% of the NT

no worries though...you certainly are not professional...not biblical either though

why did you start this op in the first place?  

it seems you believe you are on a 'higher plain' then the rest of us poor mortals who may attend church or who may disagree with your opinion of thinking you are 'all that'

 

Edited August 19, 2018 by Sevenseas

[warrior12]

On 8/17/2018 at 10:27 AM, Estrella said:

This is unheard of...atleast not in non-western churches.. no sermons/preaching? How do one learn the Word of God then? Even if u study them on your own, how do you make sure your understanding is correct? Some passages are hard to understand.

Very good question to every believer.  Have heard it from many here, that all they need is the Bible and maybe some other study tools like concordance and Bible dictionary.  Some also said that the holy spirit is their teacher and they distrust men interpretation of scripture that they are stuck on or have have disagreements.  

This can also be reasons men or groups of people choose to forsake co-operate worship under a structured leadership which provide order and accountability.  

This is also why I personally like to listen to topical sermons from a variety of pastors. That is, the same sermon title from a variety of pastors.  In this way, I can get a better picture as each may have their own way of portraying the message.   Also reading books, mainly from the puritan era. 

Let me say clearly that I support the church as a whole, be it house church or the corporate structure.    At the end of the day, it comes down to  each individual choice on how he reads his Bible and with a sincere heart decipher the word and makes his christian walk meaningful. 

From what I have read here since I have been here at Worthy, there are quite a lot of people who don't have trust in the corporate church and are using sites like this one for their gathering and worship as a coming together.  It becomes identical to the OP statement and though they are not speaking out, nevertheless they are there.

So again back to this poster question, "how do you make sure your understanding is correct ".  I am understanding  from her statement, it has to be sitting under leadership from a corporate structure church.  Correct me if I am misunderstanding your statement.   

Edited August 19, 2018 by warrior12

[walla299]

27 minutes ago, Sojourner414 said:

It's been my experience that when someone wants to do something other than what Scripture calls for, it is because what they want is in direct conflict with what God has said.

What do they call that again? Oh...that's right...SIN.

Ohh . . . that ugly 3 letter word rears its head! 

Quite true. Sin = any rebellion against God.

[Michael37]

10 hours ago, Sojourner414 said:

So tell me Michael: who would you be accountable to for insulting people who meet in a regular church then? Can you show me Scripture that forbids larger congregations that aren't in houses? And did Jesus communicate with people ,He preached to in "antediluvian language" because that was "supposedly more accurate"?

Yes, you may accuse me of "answering a question with a question. But I feel when you answer mine, your question and challenges will also have an answer as well.

Hi Sojourner414, Good to get a some discussion from you on this subject. I'm sorry you feel insulted but when different worldviews and beliefs collide this happens. The Bible is full of people who were insulted and offended. Herod was so upset by John the Baptist he cast him into prison and had him executed to please his mistress. Many were insulted and offended and upset by the ministries of Jesus, Paul, Peter and Stephen et al etc. Catholics are insulted and offended when their doctrines and beliefs are challenged, so are Calvinists, Mormons, JW's, SDA, etc, etc, ad nauseum.

Ultimately I am accountable to God(Rom 14:12). When I was associating with a thousand strong AOG fellowship over 20 years ago I was part of an investigation initiative that eventually exposed the senior pastor for multiple adulteries whilst he held not only that position, but also that of National Superintendent . This man fled to Australia having also used unauthorised assembly funds and although he confessed to his "season of adultery" in a written statement, when he was challenged to return to his former congregation to stand before them and be held accountable(1 Tim 5:20) he flately refused. The AOG authorities suspended his "licence" (yuk) for 2 years but after 6 months on the sideline he renounced his affiliation and started an independent assembly in Brisbane which grew under his charasmatic style to 2000.

Tell me more about which institutional, denominational movement or structure I should be accountable to. First and foremost I am accountable to God, then my wife, my family, my ekklesia, and to my neighbours and friends, but not to the Babel that blackens its auditoriums, has strobelights, spotlights and mirror balls synchronised with fog-machines and demonically over-amplified music, and has a deluded maniac for a preacher who screams and shouts from a stage at a mesmerised audience who think they are being "edified" in the name of Jesus.

Edited August 19, 2018 by Michael37
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[Michael37]

9 hours ago, Sevenseas said:

I did not say you were NAR..but what you describe sounds like you have developed your own style of winging it

why do you state you are vehemently opposed to deviation from scripture when what you describe is a deviation from scripture...oh but you do not think so

that is exactly how all the groups you say you are opposed launched themselves

I never mentioned a degree from anywhere, but Paul WAS highly educated in spite of some peoples disdain for that sort of thing as though it was a sin..and since he was personally chosen by Jesus...like the 12...and since he wrote about 30% of the NT

no worries though...you certainly are not professional...not biblical either though

why did you start this op in the first place?  

it seems you believe you are on a 'higher plain' then the rest of us poor mortals who may attend church or who may disagree with your opinion of thinking you are 'all that'

Hi Sevenseas, Good of you to rejoin the discussion. Our group was established about eight years ago to meet the fellowship needs of those who wanted more than the once-a-week passive pew-sitting pulpit-dominated programmed-performance style of assembly. I've already stated the previous leadership experience of those who participate. No-one is winging anything, what would be the point, for what purpose, given that we are about edifying one another. I could quote varoius Scriptures about how the body edifies itself in love and how we are to edify one another, but unless you are sitting in a pew hearing from a professional they would not be biblical according to your stance.

I started this thread to generate discussion, this being a forum for discussion. Thanks for joining it.   

[Michael37]

3 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

Every person that wants to go off the grid, church-wise intimates that they have this special mandate from God to do so, or at least hints at it.  There is no such thing.

To try and say "the Apostles didn't have credentials" is always a non-starter.  It's difficult to believe that anyone would even try.  Jesus appointed the original set as well as trained them.  Jesus did not just name them Apostles and turn them loose with no training.  You try and give the word "seminary" this sterile, ponderous and mercenary connotation that it does not have.  You have to do so to justify your rational, but it is not the evil pursuit which you attempt to make it.  A vain attempt to paint formal training of Leaders and Teachers carries no validity.  But again, you would have to operate in that manner to justify a jello-like non-organization where anyone can stand up and postulate virtually any doctrine or non-doctrine they wish to.  And no one actually learns anything.  It's just feel-good tactics to be doing something so edgy and avant garde and cutting edge.  The exact reason we have the New Age version of the church, the Emergent Church version of the church, the New Apostolic Reformation version of the church, etc,. etc., etc.  Someone just knew they knew much better how to do "church."  Like 100's of other people before them.  There is nothing new under the sun. 

What you don't know about actual preachers is a good deal.  Artificial labels like "Greek and Roman rhetoric" do nothing to mitigate the fact that what you espouse is not a biblical prototype for how the ekklesia should work.  When one wants to build something new, they have to tear down the old structure first.  Every post you make shows that you display contempt for the old structure and that it is corrupted beyond repair.  You have to forward this though process to rationalize getting rid of it and replacing it with something of your own design.  What one has to wonder about is, exactly what is your motivation to do so?

Who says our group is off the grid? Home fellowship has been around since Adam.

Cobalt1959, if are fully satisfied with parking in the signposted lot of "Mustard Seed Reformed Baptist" or some other denomination and walking into the building you helped pay for with your tithes and offerings, being handed the bulletin you helped pay for, sitting in the pew where you always sit, and enduring the excessive volume of the band(in most places these days), and following the day's program which is pretty much always the same formula, and consider listening to the formulaic sermon with points 1, 2, and 3 sufficient edification for the week, be my guest.   

Edited August 19, 2018 by Michael37
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