Why so much disagreement on the start of THE DAY?

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, Alan Hales said:

Just because Rev 5: 1--5  doesn't say Jesus was at the throne, It doesn't mean He wasn't there, Because the Bible says He was there. Because v6 , Acts 7: 55. Eph 1: 20, Say Jesus was at the throne.

So you are using human reasoning rather than what is written. That will always cause error! What you are missing: there was 32 years (or so) of time when the second person of the trinity was NOT beside the Father: and that was the time when He was on the earth.

If you go as far back in time (or before time existed) the second person of the triune Godhead was at the right hand of the Father  - the first person of the Godhead. If you go far into the future, far beyond the thousand year reign of Christ, the Son will always be at the right hand of the Father. But for that tiny speck of time - the lifespan of the SON, ONLY the Father and the Holy Spirit were in the throne room. The SON had left heaven to be born of a virgin. He was then no longer in the throne room of heaven. 

Heb. 10:5  Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

When He "came into the world," he left the kingdom of heaven. As the song says, "out of the ivory palaces, into a world of woe..." 

When God was teaching me these chapters, He spoke these words to me:

“I ascended into heaven long before John saw this vision. When John first looked into the throne room, why then didn’t he immediately see Me at the right hand of the Father? There are a dozen scriptures that say that I went to be at the right hand of the Father. Stephen saw Me there years before John saw this vision. Why then did John not see me as soon as He looked into the throne room?”

This may not be exact, for it was years ago, but it is very close to the exact words Jesus spoke to me as He was teaching me. Had had said He would ask me three questions, and until I could answer them correctly I would never understand this part of John's vision. This was His first of three questions.

Now it is up to you to judge: could it be possible that Jesus Christ - the Head of the church - spoke these words to me?  As a brother in Christ, I am saying it happened. I am also saying these words fit what John wrote perfectly. John DID NOT SEE Jesus at the right hand of the Father. You imagine He was there but John missed Him! I think you need to stick closely with what is written!

Then you have the problem of "no man was found." You have to ask yourself, WHY was "no man found?" I can tell you, this passage of scripture is showing us TIMING. Ask yourself what happened to Jesus Christ that would cause Him to be found worthy to open the seals? Why was He NOT Found at one moment in time, but WAS found later? What happened in between?

[iamlamad]

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

You can go argue with yourself, I am telling you it is about the flesh, thus it states the DEAD are raised INCORRUPTIBLE.....Good grief, a 5th grader could figure that out. There is no flesh when the person goes to the grave, our spirit man looks just like our flesh man. You can keep replying all you want, but its not going to change the facts. Looks like you would realize that and move on.

"There is no flesh when the person goes to the grave"  I don't think you meant to say what you said. OF COURSE the flesh goes to the grave. That is the part of a human that gets buried: our fleshly bodies. But that is also the very part of the born again believer that will be raised from the dead when Jesus comes. He will raise the old fleshly body out of the grave, and instantly CHANGE it into a resurrection body as it is flying up out of the grave. While the flesh goes to the grave, the human spirit man with the soul goes to heaven. Jesus will bring them back with Him when He comes so they can once again join with their bodies.

[Alan Hales]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

So you are using human reasoning rather than what is written. That will always cause error! What you are missing: there was 32 years (or so) of time when the second person of the trinity was NOT beside the Father: and that was the time when He was on the earth.

If you go as far back in time (or before time existed) the second person of the triune Godhead was at the right hand of the Father  - the first person of the Godhead. If you go far into the future, far beyond the thousand year reign of Christ, the Son will always be at the right hand of the Father. But for that tiny speck of time - the lifespan of the SON, ONLY the Father and the Holy Spirit were in the throne room. The SON had left heaven to be born of a virgin. He was then no longer in the throne room of heaven. 

Heb. 10:5  Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

When He "came into the world," he left the kingdom of heaven. As the song says, "out of the ivory palaces, into a world of woe..." 

When God was teaching me these chapters, He spoke these words to me:

“I ascended into heaven long before John saw this vision. When John first looked into the throne room, why then didn’t he immediately see Me at the right hand of the Father? There are a dozen scriptures that say that I went to be at the right hand of the Father. Stephen saw Me there years before John saw this vision. Why then did John not see me as soon as He looked into the throne room?”

This may not be exact, for it was years ago, but it is very close to the exact words Jesus spoke to me as He was teaching me. Had had said He would ask me three questions, and until I could answer them correctly I would never understand this part of John's vision. This was His first of three questions.

Now it is up to you to judge: could it be possible that Jesus Christ - the Head of the church - spoke these words to me?  As a brother in Christ, I am saying it happened. I am also saying these words fit what John wrote perfectly. John DID NOT SEE Jesus at the right hand of the Father. You imagine He was there but John missed Him! I think you need to stick closely with what is written!

Then you have the problem of "no man was found." You have to ask yourself, WHY was "no man found?" I can tell you, this passage of scripture is showing us TIMING. Ask yourself what happened to Jesus Christ that would cause Him to be found worthy to open the seals? Why was He NOT Found at one moment in time, but WAS found later? What happened in between?

NO, I'm not using human reasoning, I have shown you what the Bible says, It's you who is going by your own opinions.

We are not talking about the time that Jesus was on the earth, We are talking about after His resurrection, Stop twisting what we are debating.

John did see Jesus around the throne, As I have shown you, See it again, Rev 5: 6.  A Man was found, He was right there around the throne.          Rev 5: 6--7.  Don't you think you have been deceived by the devil? Why would Jesus tell you what you said He did. What was His point?.

[Alan Hales]

25 minutes ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

First you are lying about myself, because I am not a member of any sect, as you are saying, and I have nothing to do with their erroneous sound, much less with your erroneous theories and false interpretation of Scriptures. 

JESUS is sat on His throne of Judgment in this beginning of the first century os the seventh and last millennium, or seventh and last Day, the Judgment Seat of Christ, thus, since now we both are under His heavenly Judgment, to suffer the punishment deserved for falsifying the Scriptures and preaching lies.

The time is of punishment, only and only punishments of each one, more than this, of all nations, by the way, wicked nations.

 Jesus DIDN'T sit on the throne at the beginning of the first century. The Bible tells us Jesus was on the throne, at the right hand of God, see        Acts 7: 55. Eph 1: 20.

Born again Christians AREN'T under any of God's judgment. Jesus has already taken our judgment and punishment when he was dying on the Cross. 2 Cor 5: 21. Rom 8: 1. Gal 3: 13--14.

 It's easy to see that you don't belong to any denominations, because you are a self made false prophet.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Alan Hales said:

NO, I'm not using human reasoning, I have shown you what the Bible says, It's you who is going by your own opinions.

We are not talking about the time that Jesus was on the earth, We are talking about after His resurrection, Stop twisting what we are debating.

John did see Jesus around the throne, As I have shown you, See it again, Rev 5: 6.  A Man was found, He was right there around the throne.          Rev 5: 6--7.  Don't you think you have been deceived by the devil? Why would Jesus tell you what you said He did. What was His point?.

What you are missing: Rev. 4 & 5 was a vision of John's PAST: it was a "history lesson" (God's words to me, not my words) for John. 

In all of time, past, present and future, and OUTSIDE Of time) the second person of the trinity was, is, and will be, always at the right hand of the Father. That is, all except for that tiny speck of time - the 32 years on earth.

Do you know what that "book" was in the hand of the Father? Do you know the great importance of finding someone worthy to take the book and open the seals (so that the book can be opened and reveal what is inside the book)? God wanted to show us "the book" because of its great importance  - in the Revelation: so He shows this to John. But He started the story will "the book" was still in the hand of the Father - giving us the impression that God had been holding that book since the days of Adam. 

The "book" was the lease document given to Adam. It was sealed with seals to prevent anyone not worthy from opening it. Once it gets opened, the trumpets would sound, and at the 7th trumpet, Adam's lease expires, and the earth is given back to Jesus Christ, the right owner. Satan's ONLY legal hold to earth is Adam's lease that he usurped. Once the lease has expired, Satan has no more legal hold, so is cast down to earth. 

But there is one caveat: before the book can be opened so that the trumpet judgments can begin, so that the 7th trumpet can sould, so that Jesus can gain back His planet, the seals must be opened. But ONLY a man, and ONLY a man who can rise from the dead to become alive forever more can be worthy to break the seals and open the book!  You see, if no man was found worthy, the book would never be opened and the trumpets would never sound, and the devil would remain the God of this planet. THANK GOD Jesus was found worthy, and began to open the seals the moment He ascended. 

Jesus was NOT SEEN in the throne room in chapter 4, telling us HE was STILL ON EARTH. "No man was found" worthy in that first search John watched - the search that ended in failure and John wrote "no man was found" tells us that Jesus had not yet risen from the dead. He could not be found worthy UNTIL He had risen from the dead. The Holy Spirit was still there, NOT sent down, simply because Jesus had not yet ascended. But in chapter 5, TIME PASSED and Jesus rose from the dead, and was immediately found worthy. Then, as we know from the gospels, He told Mary not to touch Him for He had not yet ascended, and then HE ASCENDED. And John, in the vision, got to see that moment in time that Jesus once again entered into the throne room, having died for our sins, and risen from the dead, conquering death. 

The INTENT of Jesus in including chapters 4 & 5 was to set the proper time for seal #1. You want to pull that seal out of its early church context. You can, but you will be wrong! 

Did you not read "My sheep know my voice?" I know His voice, having heard it many times in my life. 

What you have shown is YOUR THEORY of what is written. What is really written is that John DID NOT SEE Jesus in the throne room. And the reason John wrote that is because IN THE VISION Jesus was not there. He was on earth at that time.

We are not talking about the time that Jesus was on the earth

WRONG! That is your problem! John WAS talking about while Jesus was on the earth! That is why He was not seen in the throne room. There was 32 years of time when Jesus was NOT IN the throne room! And there was a time when Jesus was NOT WORTHY to take the book and open the seals. And there was a time when the Holy Spirit was NOT sent down, but was in the throne room. 

Alan, do you have any concept of TIME? God was showing John TIMING and the movement of TIME in these two chapters. His purpose was to set the TIMING of the first seals. 

John did see Jesus around the throne, As I have shown you, See it again, Rev 5: 6. 

Yes indeed, AFTER (meaning time had passed by) chapter 4 when Jesus was NOT SEEN there. What God is showing you and you are missing is that Jesus JUST ARRIVED in heaven.  John got to see that very moment in time when Jesus ascended, right after telling Mary He had not yet ascended. God is showing you TIMING, but you are missing it!

Revelation 5:

² And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

³ And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

Do you SEE that? John watched a search take place for someone worth, but this search ended in failure!

WHY did that search end in failure? There can be only one reason: Jesus had not yet risen from the dead. 

It seems that this search for one worthy had been ongoing - perhaps since the days of Adam. We know another search was conducted after this one that ended in failure - and in that next search - JESUS was found.

Why would Jesus tell you what you said He did. What was His point?.

His point was to show me HIS INTENT when He caused John to see this vision and write. Most readers of today imagine all this is FUTURE, but the truth is, it was a history lesson even for John: it was looking into the throne room of around  32 AD. That was His point. To show me this was a vision of John's past. John saw this vision around 95 AD, according to some. But the contents of the vision itself, in chapters 4 & 5, were of a time around 32 AD, so around 60 years into John's past. 

[Alan Hales]

14 hours ago, iamlamad said:

What you are missing: Rev. 4 & 5 was a vision of John's PAST: it was a "history lesson" (God's words to me, not my words) for John. 

In all of time, past, present and future, and OUTSIDE Of time) the second person of the trinity was, is, and will be, always at the right hand of the Father. That is, all except for that tiny speck of time - the 32 years on earth.

Do you know what that "book" was in the hand of the Father? Do you know the great importance of finding someone worthy to take the book and open the seals (so that the book can be opened and reveal what is inside the book)? God wanted to show us "the book" because of its great importance  - in the Revelation: so He shows this to John. But He started the story will "the book" was still in the hand of the Father - giving us the impression that God had been holding that book since the days of Adam. 

The "book" was the lease document given to Adam. It was sealed with seals to prevent anyone not worthy from opening it. Once it gets opened, the trumpets would sound, and at the 7th trumpet, Adam's lease expires, and the earth is given back to Jesus Christ, the right owner. Satan's ONLY legal hold to earth is Adam's lease that he usurped. Once the lease has expired, Satan has no more legal hold, so is cast down to earth. 

But there is one caveat: before the book can be opened so that the trumpet judgments can begin, so that the 7th trumpet can sould, so that Jesus can gain back His planet, the seals must be opened. But ONLY a man, and ONLY a man who can rise from the dead to become alive forever more can be worthy to break the seals and open the book!  You see, if no man was found worthy, the book would never be opened and the trumpets would never sound, and the devil would remain the God of this planet. THANK GOD Jesus was found worthy, and began to open the seals the moment He ascended. 

Jesus was NOT SEEN in the throne room in chapter 4, telling us HE was STILL ON EARTH. "No man was found" worthy in that first search John watched - the search that ended in failure and John wrote "no man was found" tells us that Jesus had not yet risen from the dead. He could not be found worthy UNTIL He had risen from the dead. The Holy Spirit was still there, NOT sent down, simply because Jesus had not yet ascended. But in chapter 5, TIME PASSED and Jesus rose from the dead, and was immediately found worthy. Then, as we know from the gospels, He told Mary not to touch Him for He had not yet ascended, and then HE ASCENDED. And John, in the vision, got to see that moment in time that Jesus once again entered into the throne room, having died for our sins, and risen from the dead, conquering death. 

The INTENT of Jesus in including chapters 4 & 5 was to set the proper time for seal #1. You want to pull that seal out of its early church context. You can, but you will be wrong! 

Did you not read "My sheep know my voice?" I know His voice, having heard it many times in my life. 

What you have shown is YOUR THEORY of what is written. What is really written is that John DID NOT SEE Jesus in the throne room. And the reason John wrote that is because IN THE VISION Jesus was not there. He was on earth at that time.

We are not talking about the time that Jesus was on the earth

WRONG! That is your problem! John WAS talking about while Jesus was on the earth! That is why He was not seen in the throne room. There was 32 years of time when Jesus was NOT IN the throne room! And there was a time when Jesus was NOT WORTHY to take the book and open the seals. And there was a time when the Holy Spirit was NOT sent down, but was in the throne room. 

Alan, do you have any concept of TIME? God was showing John TIMING and the movement of TIME in these two chapters. His purpose was to set the TIMING of the first seals. 

John did see Jesus around the throne, As I have shown you, See it again, Rev 5: 6. 

Yes indeed, AFTER (meaning time had passed by) chapter 4 when Jesus was NOT SEEN there. What God is showing you and you are missing is that Jesus JUST ARRIVED in heaven.  John got to see that very moment in time when Jesus ascended, right after telling Mary He had not yet ascended. God is showing you TIMING, but you are missing it!

Revelation 5:

² And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

³ And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

Do you SEE that? John watched a search take place for someone worth, but this search ended in failure!

WHY did that search end in failure? There can be only one reason: Jesus had not yet risen from the dead. 

It seems that this search for one worthy had been ongoing - perhaps since the days of Adam. We know another search was conducted after this one that ended in failure - and in that next search - JESUS was found.

Why would Jesus tell you what you said He did. What was His point?.

His point was to show me HIS INTENT when He caused John to see this vision and write. Most readers of today imagine all this is FUTURE, but the truth is, it was a history lesson even for John: it was looking into the throne room of around  32 AD. That was His point. To show me this was a vision of John's past. John saw this vision around 95 AD, according to some. But the contents of the vision itself, in chapters 4 & 5, were of a time around 32 AD, so around 60 years into John's past. 

You have wasted your time twisting the scriptures, Because no one believes your self made prophet or your self made false teachings.

[Alan Hales]

5 hours ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

Then you confirm what I said in my post above is truth. I said: JESUS is sat on His throne of Judgment in this beginning of this FIRST CENTURY OF THE SEVENTH AND LAST MILLENNIUM, OR SEVENTH AND LAST DAY,  the Judgment Seat of Christ (see Bible table's time in the page 21), thus, since now we both (and all) are under His heavenly Judgment, to suffer the punishment deserved for falsifying the Scriptures and preaching lies. By the way, such as you do, as follow:

JESUS was not sat on the throne around two thousand years ago.  You, even you, are saying that, not the Bible. You are falsifying Scriptures and preaching lies.

Acts 7:55 - 55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the Glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God.  -  JESUS was not on the throne, Jesus was standing at the side of God. You continue to sow tares and lies by falsifying the Scriptures. 

Eph 1: 20. - 20 Which He wrought in Christ, when He raised him from the dead, and set him at His own right hand in the heavenly places,  (no throne)

AND MORE THESE BIBLICAL VERSES, AS FOLLOW:

Col. 3:1 - 1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.  (no throne)

Heb.8:1 - Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty (of God Father) in the heavens;

Heb. 12:2 - 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. (at the right hand of the throne of God the Father)

 

BUT NOW, EVEN NOW, in this beginning of this first century of the seventh and last millennium (see the Bible time's table in the page 21) JESUS is not at the right hand of the throne of God Father any more, because the Most High God and Almighty entered in His rest as He planned since the beginning of creation. Now, even now, in this new millennium, the seventh and last millennium, JESUS sat on the throne of the Father, all nations are Judged by Him since now .  There will be PUNISHMENTS, only and only PUNISHMENTS, against all idolaters and wicked nations.
JESUS left very very clear: John 5:v.22-23 -  22  The Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all Judgment unto the Son:  23 - That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Even now, JESUS assumed the control of the Universe and will establish His Kingdom on the Earth. 

Since now we both (and all) are under His heavenly Judgment, to suffer the punishment deserved for falsifying  Scriptures and preaching lies.  By the way, such as you have done. 

 

JESUS made it very clear, saying: Mat.7:19-23

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that Day (this Day has aalready arrived) , Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

What did I say and preach by written in this forum?  I repeat:  

JESUS is sat on His throne of Judgment in this beginning of the first century os the seventh and last millennium, or seventh and last Day, the Judgment Seat of Christ, thus, since now we both (and all) are under His heavenly Judgment, to suffer the punishment deserved for falsifying the Scriptures and preaching lies.

The time is of punishment, only and only punishments of each one, more than this, of all nations, by the way, wicked nations.

You are wasting you time twisting the scripture to get your erroneous beliefs, Because NO Born again Christian believes you. What false religion are you??.

[n2thelight]

On 9/7/2018 at 4:15 AM, Alan Hales said:

There will be people on the earth during the great tribulation period, The Jews, backsliders, [The five unwise virgins] and those who get saved, will suffer and a lot will be killed.  But thank God the Church goes before the coming tribulation period.

Why do you seperate the Jew's from the Church?How can you say the Church will be gone when Christ Himself says He comes AFTER the tribulation?

It's only 2 choices,Christ or satan,been that way since the two tree's in the Garden you belong to one or the other,period,don't care who you are.....

Do you think Christ can't protect His own when all hell is breaking loose?Did He not give you the example with the Hebrews and the blood on the door post?

You either will have the seal of God or you will take the mark of satan

Since only Christians can be deceived,who will be?

[n2thelight]

Keep waiting for this false rapture,deception can cost you to lose your soul

[iamlamad]

4 hours ago, Alan Hales said:

You have wasted your time twisting the scriptures, Because no one believes your self made prophet or your self made false teachings.

When you arrive at the pearly gates, and then know as we are known, you will find out I did know something after all! By the way, many of the commentators have the first seal as the church sent out with the gospel. I am not alone in this belief. 

Show us just one "twist" on a scripture. That is, if you can. You attempted to say Jesus WAS there in chapter 4 but John did not see him. Really? That is your answer? That is more of a "twist" that Him not being there!

You came up with NOTHING as to why Jesus was not found in the first search John watched. 

Your explanation of the Holy Spirit was worse yet. 

So you disagree with me, but have no other theory on these chapters but that I am wrong.

Perhaps you should read some of the commentators.