Judas Iscariot

[Unfailing Presence]

We know that Judas was not a believer as of the Last Supper because we are told that " Satan entered into him "  .

This demonic possession is not possible if someone be in Christ . We are all subject to Satan's temptations but spiritual indwelling , possession  is an entirely different matter .

                           " And after the sop Satan entered into him "  ( John 13 : 27 )

I believe Satan was still in control of Judas in the Garden at the night of  betrayal .

I believe Satan was done using his body  in the morning :  

                                                                         " When the morning was come …..then Judas which had betrayed him , when he saw that he was condemned ."

Interesting description in that almost seems to be describing a person who just arrived on the scene that morning completely unaware  of the events the night before .  Which in reality was the case since Satan himself was walking in his shoes the night before  .

Now that he his back in control of his own faculties I think the final clue that even now while regretful & remorseful Judas was still not a believer is in what he says to the Jewish leaders concerning Jesus while trying to return the silver:   

                                             " ..I have betrayed the innocent blood . " ( Matthew 27 : 4 ) 

He only says that Jesus is " innocent "  , never mentioning his Spiritual deity or eternal Almighty nature . 

Anybody , including me and you can be " innocent "  of any given crime , but none of us can be the Son of God. 

I don't know about you but given what previously  was said about Judas's eternal fate by Jesus Himself , if Judas had declared Jesus's true nature to the Jewish leaders saying something along the order of  : 

                                    " I have sinned and  betrayed The Son Glory , the  Messiah  , My Redeemer ,  the Holy one of God ."

I would have some very real conflicting feelings with what Jesus said about his damnation . I would be very conflicted as this would not comport with the Jesus I know .

But being that all he actually said that Jesus was just another " innocent "  person I can accept Judas's fate as told by Jesus . 

Tragic as it is  .

It aligns with the facts .

Edited August 27, 2018 by Unfailing Presence

[Jayne]

4 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

There is nothing to say that Matthias was God's choice to replace Judas.  The Bible does not state that explicitly.  You can infer that, but it is not stated, as such.

All I know is that the Bible says this:

"And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship"

Oh, well.   It doesn't affect eternity so we will agree to disagree.

 

[Dennis1209]

3 hours ago, Unfailing Presence said:

We know that Judas was not a believer as of the Last Supper because we are told that " Satan entered into him "  .

This demonic possession is not possible if someone be in Christ . We are all subject to Satan's temptations but spiritual indwelling , possession  is an entirely different matter .

                           " And after the sop Satan entered into him "  ( John 13 : 27 )

I believe Satan was still in control of Judas in the Garden at the night of  betrayal .

I believe Satan was done using his body  in the morning :  

                                                                         " When the morning was come …..then Judas which had betrayed him , when he saw that he was condemned ."

Interesting description in that almost seems to be describing a person who just arrived on the scene that morning completely unaware  of the events the night before .  Which in reality was the case since Satan himself was walking in his shoes the night before  .

Now that he his back in control of his own faculties I think the final clue that even now while regretful & remorseful Judas was still not a believer is in what he says to the Jewish leaders concerning Jesus while trying to return the silver:   

                                             " ..I have betrayed the innocent blood . " ( Matthew 27 : 4 ) 

He only says that Jesus is " innocent "  , never mentioning his Spiritual deity or eternal Almighty nature . 

Anybody , including me and you can be " innocent "  of any given crime , but none of us can be the Son of God. 

I don't know about you but given what previously  was said about Judas's eternal fate by Jesus Himself , if Judas had declared Jesus's true nature to the Jewish leaders saying something along the order of  : 

                                    " I have sinned and  betrayed The Son Glory , the  Messiah  , My Redeemer ,  the Holy one of God ."

I would have some very real conflicting feelings with what Jesus said about his damnation . I would be very conflicted as this would not comport with the Jesus I know .

But being that all he actually said that Jesus was just another " innocent "  person I can accept Judas's fate as told by Jesus . 

Tragic as it is  .

It aligns with the facts .

I can find only 'two' instances where the phrase "son of perdition" is used, both in the New Testament (John 17: 12, 2 Th 2: 3). I find it interesting that one is describing Judas and the other one of many names for the coming antichrist. "Son of" seems to imply his character and destiny. The closest word I find for 'perdition' in the English language is 'destruction'. 

It's interesting to note the same descriptions / titles given to just to men, Judas & the Man of Sin. I'm thinking there's a connection.

[warrior12]

4 hours ago, Unfailing Presence said:

We know that Judas was not a believer as of the Last Supper because we are told that " Satan entered into him "  .

This demonic possession is not possible if someone be in Christ . We are all subject to Satan's temptations but spiritual indwelling , possession  is an entirely different matter .

                           " And after the sop Satan entered into him "  ( John 13 : 27 )

I believe Satan was still in control of Judas in the Garden at the night of  betrayal .

I believe Satan was done using his body  in the morning :  

                                                                         " When the morning was come …..then Judas which had betrayed him , when he saw that he was condemned ."

Interesting description in that almost seems to be describing a person who just arrived on the scene that morning completely unaware  of the events the night before .  Which in reality was the case since Satan himself was walking in his shoes the night before  .

Now that he his back in control of his own faculties I think the final clue that even now while regretful & remorseful Judas was still not a believer is in what he says to the Jewish leaders concerning Jesus while trying to return the silver:   

                                             " ..I have betrayed the innocent blood . " ( Matthew 27 : 4 ) 

He only says that Jesus is " innocent "  , never mentioning his Spiritual deity or eternal Almighty nature . 

Anybody , including me and you can be " innocent "  of any given crime , but none of us can be the Son of God. 

I don't know about you but given what previously  was said about Judas's eternal fate by Jesus Himself , if Judas had declared Jesus's true nature to the Jewish leaders saying something along the order of  : 

                                    " I have sinned and  betrayed The Son Glory , the  Messiah  , My Redeemer ,  the Holy one of God ."

I would have some very real conflicting feelings with what Jesus said about his damnation . I would be very conflicted as this would not comport with the Jesus I know .

But being that all he actually said that Jesus was just another " innocent "  person I can accept Judas's fate as told by Jesus . 

Tragic as it is  .

It aligns with the facts .

I like your analysis of Judas status as to his spiritual condition when he betrayed Jesus.  Just thinking this through and asking, he being possessed by the devil, then is it his fault that he became possessed or was it that satan choose him. If you said that "satan was done with his body in the morning", then it suggest that satan could have done anything with Judas without Judas resistance. 

Judas had been all over the place with Jesus and witnessed the many miracles, healing and even Lazarus brought back to life.  If after all this and he did not believe, then it shows what the heart of man is capable of.   I mean, pure Godly fear should have seized Judas as he witness the miracles of the loaves multiplying and also Jesus walking on water.   Then , reading of how he had remorse when he found out Jesus was condemned was a pitiful thing and then his eventual death by suicide.  Tragic indeed.   The question still remains for me is if his repentance was genuine from the heart or as some say worldly guilt. How can one determine that.

Many christians today take their own lives and I even heard a story where a pastor daughter was suffering from depression and she would come and go and he even thought that she was on here way to getting past it only to found her one day with no more life. She was a believer according to the pastor. The situation as I am reading herein the threads too, is if a person takes his own life, he is eternally separated from God, so or not so. 

[Dennis1209]

32 minutes ago, Jayne said:

All I know is that the Bible says this:

"And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship"

Oh, well.   It doesn't affect eternity so we will agree to disagree.

 

Hello Jane,

I've wondered about that myself. We know the "New Jerusalem's" gates will be representative of the twelve tribes, and the foundation the twelve apostles (could 12 + 12 = 24, be representative of the 24 Elders?). But which of the twelve apostles / disciples of the thirteen listed? Well, scratch Judas for obvious reasons, now back to twelve. 

Omitting Judas, which of the eleven remaining original apostles were directly selected by Jesus Himself? All of them. It's my personal thought Matthias was selected as an apostle and 'place holder' so to speak, until the selection by Jesus Himself of the Apostle Paul. In my research I can find nothing that is known of Matthias except of a tradition of either he was a Ethiopian martyr or died a martyr by burning in Syria, or he was stoned and beheaded?

A good case could be made either way and for many reasons. One being the Apostle Paul was appointed to be the Apostle to the Gentiles. Does that mean he's not included and attached to the original twelve? Like you said, in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't affect eternity, but it's interesting to study, ponder and discuss. 

 

 

[Dennis1209]

Just to blab some of my thoughts...

Many times I've tried to put myself into a biblical characters position and place and think, what would I believe and do, and what were they thinking?? What if I seen an actual miracle that could be explained no other way than supernatural, how about dozens of them, how would I think or believe? How many miracles would it take for 'me' to become a believer? 

I believe at conception we're all given a conscience, to know good from evil, right from wrong and sorrow / grief knowing we did wrong. I think that conscience can be greatly seared by a variety of ways to numerous to mention, and can be hardened. People go to great lengths to deny and hide the truths they know to be fact because they don't want to face it or the consequences. 

Speaking of myself, I could betray someone near and dear to me to the point of my conscience being overwhelmed and my emotions out of control. I could be so grievous, ashamed and sorry to the point of taking my own life. I could confess what I did to anybody and everybody, but unless I confronted the 'one' whom I committed it against and asked the only one whom could forgive me and repented and sincerely apologized, what difference or good was done?

Just my thought process.

[warrior12]

47 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

Just to blab some of my thoughts...

Many times I've tried to put myself into a biblical characters position and place and think, what would I believe and do, and what were they thinking?? What if I seen an actual miracle that could be explained no other way than supernatural, how about dozens of them, how would I think or believe? How many miracles would it take for 'me' to become a believer? 

I believe at conception we're all given a conscience, to know good from evil, right from wrong and sorrow / grief knowing we did wrong. I think that conscience can be greatly seared by a variety of ways to numerous to mention, and can be hardened. People go to great lengths to deny and hide the truths they know to be fact because they don't want to face it or the consequences. 

Speaking of myself, I could betray someone near and dear to me to the point of my conscience being overwhelmed and my emotions out of control. I could be so grievous, ashamed and sorry to the point of taking my own life. I could confess what I did to anybody and everybody, but unless I confronted the 'one' whom I committed it against and asked the only one whom could forgive me and repented and sincerely apologized, what difference or good was done?

Just my thought process.

Nice words there.  Just a thought myself too .  All said and done, if anyone sees a man actually walking on water, it would be forever burned in his mind of the magnitude of that person and awe and wonder would be within his conscience. I don't think anyone else had that privilege to witness that besides the twelve. The heart though, who can fix its issues and contemplation. 

[Unfailing Presence]

1 hour ago, warrior12 said:

I like your analysis of Judas status as to his spiritual condition when he betrayed Jesus.  Just thinking this through and asking, he being possessed by the devil, then is it his fault that he became possessed or was it that satan choose him. If you said that "satan was done with his body in the morning", then it suggest that satan could have done anything with Judas without Judas resistance.

Thank You ,

I believe the  answer to be  both .

Judas was previously described as being a "thief "  and being of a greedy nature . I think  Judas's embracing of that particular sin is what caught Satan's attention . 

We all have sinful desires . Whatever particular sinful desire we wrestle with the most ,  be it greed , envy , sex , drunkenness  …. that is where Satan will target his attack .  

Satan chose Judas because he knew his desire to steal for money was his weak point .

It is interesting to note that Jesus said that Judas was not the only disciple  Satan had designs on .

Concerning Peter Jesus said that Satan desired to  " Sift him as wheat " .

A very ominous statement that no doubt meant Satan sought to use and destroy Peter as he did Judas . 

Peter may have very likely been Satan's plan A ,  and Judas may have been plan B ? 

No doubt the particular sin weakness of Peter's that Satan was interested in exploiting  was pride .

Satan's favorite sin .

If Jesus had not " Prayed for " an unwitting Peter in this regard  , the gospel account might have had Peter hanging himself  and Judas preaching Pentecost ?

The real $ 64 ,000  question becomes why did Jesus " pray "  to keep oblivious Peter from being destroyed by Satan ,  but did not pray for Judas ?

I have never heard that addressed by anyone .  

Have you ? 

 

Edited August 27, 2018 by Unfailing Presence

[Dennis1209]

10 minutes ago, Unfailing Presence said:

The real $ 64 ,000  question becomes why did Jesus " pray "  to keep oblivious Peter from being destroyed by Satan ,  but did not pray for Judas ?

I have never heard that addressed by anyone .  

That's a good question I'd like to hear the opinions of others on...

From memory I would have to say, from the beginning Judas was a thief and untrustworthy. To fulfill O.T. scripture this had to take place, the foreknowledge of God. The "son of Perdition" is only mentioned two times in the Bible, both in the New Testament. One Judas is called the son of perdition, the other the antichirst. I've never read a prayer for Satan, devil's, unclean spirits or demons in the Bible, reason being they're beyond Salvation and not redeemable. I think there might be a connection between Judas, the coming antichrist and the end-times myself.

Acts 1:25 (KJV) That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place. [Where is his own place?]. That's an interesting study also that could explain some things.

[other one]

We should not forget that Satan entered Judas before he went to the Rabbi's to make the 30 pieces of silver deal...

Don't know if that will get him any slack in the deal, but since it's not my place to judge I'll just leave it at that.

Edited August 27, 2018 by other one