Judas Iscariot

[Unfailing Presence]

1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

2 hours ago, Unfailing Presence said:

The real $ 64 ,000  question becomes why did Jesus " pray "  to keep oblivious Peter from being destroyed by Satan ,  but did not pray for Judas ?

I have never heard that addressed by anyone .  

That's a good question I'd like to hear the opinions of others on...

From memory I would have to say, from the beginning Judas was a thief and untrustworthy

I think you are right , and after thinking about it I think we can add to it the words that Jesus said to Peter at the time in addition to what he told him of Satan's desire to sift him :

                            " I have prayed for thee , that THY FAITH fail not . And WHEN THOU ART CONVERTED strengthen thy brethren . "    Luke 22 :32

This indicates that Peter did have some faith at this point , something Judas obviously did not have ,  yet Jesus specifically says he is not yet " CONVERTED" .

" When thou art converted "   yet still having " faith "  ?

What an awkward spiritual state to be in ?

We have answered one question but stumbled upon a whole new one .

I never noticed this before , have you ?

It seems to me that Jesus is indicating that when we are moving towards Him, reaching for His hand , yet still not grasping it , He considers that we have some partial faith .

I know that before I became saved there was a progression where I wanted to know Him yet had still not arrived . 

I wonder if this was the state that Peter was in at the time , and this is what Jesus was referring to ? 

Edited August 28, 2018 by Unfailing Presence

[Retrobyter]

On 8/26/2018 at 5:59 PM, HAZARD said:

Sadly, God has already judged him. Judas brooded over his sin and committed suicide. His name was removed from the book of life, and another, (Matthias), took his place.

Judas, "by transgression" fell and his Bishopric was given to another, (Acts 1:25).

Murder is a death penalty sin, suicide is self murder, there's no repenting after death.

Shalom, HAZARD.

You should know that to be "removed from the book of life" simply means that the person is no longer among the living. So, yes, Yhudah was "removed from the book of life," but that does NOT mean that "God has already judged him." First, note what Yeshua` HIMSELF said,

John 5:19-47 (KJV)

19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. 21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. 22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

24 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

25 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is (e.g., Lazarus), when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

30 "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

31 "If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. 32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.

33 "Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth. 34 But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved. 35 He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.

36 "But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

37 "And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. 38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

39 "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. 41 I receive not honour from men. 42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. 43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?"

God, Yeshua`s Father, judges NO ONE! He's committed all judgment to His Son. So, it's up to the One who KNEW Yhudah personally, who was BETRAYED by Yhudah. Ultimately, it's not something that you or anyone can decide for Him!

[HAZARD]

17 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, HAZARD.

You should know that to be "removed from the book of life" simply means that the person is no longer among the living. So, yes, Yhudah was "removed from the book of life," but that does NOT mean that "God has already judged him." First, note what Yeshua` HIMSELF said,

John 5:19-47 (KJV)

19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. 21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. 22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

24 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

25 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is (e.g., Lazarus), when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

30 "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

31 "If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. 32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.

33 "Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth. 34 But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved. 35 He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.

36 "But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

37 "And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. 38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

39 "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. 41 I receive not honour from men. 42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. 43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?"

God, Yeshua`s Father, judges NO ONE! He's committed all judgment to His Son. So, it's up to the One who KNEW Yhudah personally, who was BETRAYED by Yhudah. Ultimately, it's not something that you or anyone can decide for Him!

Once ones name is removed from God's book of life one is lost forever.

Exodus 32:  33, And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book. 

Rev 20:15, And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. 

[other one]

25 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

Once ones name is removed from God's book of life one is lost forever.

Exodus 32:  33, And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book. 

Rev 20:15, And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. 

well, since we all are sinners in some way I guess we are all hopeless...  Might as well just die and go to hell....

 

Mixing scripture by themselves is not a good idea unless you take into consideration the entire Bible

[HAZARD]

3 minutes ago, other one said:

well, since we all are sinners in some way I guess we are all hopeless...  Might as well just die and go to hell....

 

Mixing scripture by themselves is not a good idea unless you take into consideration the entire Bible

Sure were all sinners, but don't you repent of your sins? I repent every day and thank God in Jesus Name for forgiving me.

Our names are removed from God's book only if we die in or with un repented sins, as Judas did.

Peter sinned, denying Christ three times, even cursing, BUT he repented. Judas brooded over his sin and committed suicide and his name was removed from God's book. Once one is dead it is impossible to repent. Self murder is sin.

[other one]

1 minute ago, HAZARD said:

Sure were all sinners, but don't you repent of your sins? I repent every day and thank God in Jesus Name for forgiving me.

Our names are removed from God's book only if we die in or with un repented sins, as Judas did.

Peter sinned, denying Christ three times, even cursing, BUT he repented. Judas brooded over his sin and committed suicide and his name was removed from God's book. Once one is dead it is impossible to repent. Self murder is sin.

I do not see how you can really know the heart of Judas....

[HAZARD]

2 minutes ago, other one said:

I do not see how you can really know the heart of Judas....

I don't have to know the heart of Judas, I believe what God said in His Word. Judas committed suicide and his name was removed from God's book, and God says in His Word;

Acts 1:16-20,  V, 16, Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus. 
    17, For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry. 
    18, Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out. 

Acts 1:23-25,   V, 23, And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. 
    24, And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, 

25, That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, FROM WHICH JUDAS BY TRANSGRSSION FELL, that he might go to his own place. 

Rev 20:15, And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. 

Why did Judas hang himself? He saw death as a solution to his problem. We don’t know, however, what problem Judas hoped to solve by killing himself. Did he think that death would end his guilt? Or did he think that by dying he could somehow atone for his sin? One thing we can be certain of is that Judas did not believe he could receive forgiveness from God for what he’d done, although the Bible leads us to believe that he could have. Had Judas believed that, he would have asked for and received it, and then acted like he was forgiven; thus he wouldn’t have killed himself. Suicide is never a good solution to any problem. His taking his own life didn’t lessen Judas’ guilt. Nor did he atone for his sin by his act.

[HAZARD]

Judas had his name removed from God's book of life and went to hell when he died, not just because he betrayed Jesus, but for the same reason anyone else goes to hell: he was an un-repented sinner who didn’t believe in Jesus. Judas was set apart from everyone else in hell because he was guiltier than the average sinner, having lived with Jesus for three years and having seen His many miracles. His unbelief was unbelievable.

[other one]

1 hour ago, HAZARD said:

 

 

 

Why did Judas hang himself?

 

I don't know for sure and either you nor I could know that past speculation....

[HAZARD]

2 minutes ago, other one said:

I don't know for sure and either you nor I could know that past speculation....

Scriptures make is clear as a bell why Judas gave up and hanged himself. Judas was sorry afterwards for his betrayal "Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that. Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that." (Matt. 27:3-5).

Judas could have been forgiven as much as any of the others who cursed, denied Christ, and fled like cowards in the test. But being of a disposition to do so, he brooded over his fall and yielded to temptation to commit suicide.

Judas is a specific example of a New testament man who was once saved and in God's favour and grace but who by transgression fell, and because of his un repented sin went to hell.