Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
WilliamL

The 1260 and 1290/1335 Days

Recommended Posts

On 10/2/2018 at 9:33 AM, JoeCanada said:

Could Daniels’ days of 1260, 1290, and 1335 be linked to the fulfillment of the Feasts of the Lord?

I had another article ready to go, but my OpenOffice program flat out lost it when I tried to copy it over. Will rewrite it from notes  for next time.

One thing I remember off the top relates to the above. 1290 days works out to 43 lunar months + 20 days. There are 43 lunar months between Rosh Hashanah/Tishri 1 and Nisan 1, 3-1/2 years later. Add 20 days comes to Nisan 21, the last day and second special sabbath day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. This was the day the Israelites crossed through the Red Sea, being finally delivered from Egyptian bondage. Also, in my understanding, the day the dead rose (were delivered) from the graves "after His (Jesus') resurrection," and "entered into the holy city." Matt. 27:53

Adding 45 days to Nisan 21 comes to Sivan 7, potentially the day of Shavout/Pentecost, depending on the year. Rabbinical Jews celebrate Sivan 6 every year for this Feast Day, the original day God gave the 10 Commandments from Mt. Sinai. The next day, the 7th, was when the Israelites entered into their blood covenant with God to keep His law. Ex. 24:1-9

All these numbers possibly being coincidence, of course.

  • This is Worthy 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, WilliamL said:

I studied out your article Chronology of the Last Days, and this is my response:

You write, “The first seal was opened after the gospel was preached to all the nations, completing the times of the nations, or gentiles. When it was opened, the evil angel beast was released from the abyss and began implementing the plan that would lead to the man of sin’s rise to become world dictator. … The reason I place it’s opening circa 1900 is that about that time, we saw the emergence of things that today have matured into things of prophetic significance. … When these things have sufficiently matured, the man of sin will be revealed, something that begins in earnest with the second seal.”

The only time Scripture speaks of the sealed Abyss being opened is at the 5th Seal, by an angel who is “given the key.” Rev. 9:1 Whereas the 1st Seal says nothing about either the Abyss or the Beast. So your thesis seems to be established purely upon personal rationalizations.

Likewise, you posit that at “the 4th Seal…the man of sin…declares himself to be God.” And at the 5th Seal, the image of the Beast (Rev. 13:14) is set up. Neither of these things is mentioned at all in Rev. 6, nor anything like them.

Revelation 7's “great multitude” of saints “before the throne,” so large as to be innumerable, is not mentioned at all in your thesis – where do they fit in? You mention no Rapture of the Church at all, and put the Second Coming of the Lord at both the 7th Trumpet and 7th Bowl, which “is completed in one day. The millennial reign of Christ begins and His kingdom fills the earth.” So at best, no Rapture into the clouds of anything more than a fraction of a day.

Your thesis thus requires the Church to remain on earth throughout all of the Seals, Trumpets, and Bowls, and to go through the whole period of the Wrath of God, 1 Thes. 5:9 notwithstanding.

Sorry to say, but because so many of your conclusions lack Scriptural backup, I see no reason to address what you present about the prophetic time periods.

I can support my position with scriptural backup.  The article I referenced wasn't meant to be an exhaustive examination of the subject but rather more of a primer.  Everything will be revealed in its time.  It's not worth arguing about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

I had another article ready to go, but my OpenOffice program flat out lost it when I tried to copy it over. Will rewrite it from notes  for next time.

One thing I remember off the top relates to the above. 1290 days works out to 43 lunar months + 20 days. There are 43 lunar months between Rosh Hashanah/Tishri 1 and Nisan 1, 3-1/2 years later. Add 20 days comes to Nisan 21, the last day and second special sabbath day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. This was the day the Israelites crossed through the Red Sea, being finally delivered from Egyptian bondage. Also, in my understanding, the day the dead rose (were delivered) from the graves "after His (Jesus') resurrection," and "entered into the holy city." Matt. 27:53

Adding 45 days to Nisan 21 comes to Sivan 7, potentially the day of Shavout/Pentecost, depending on the year. Rabbinical Jews celebrate Sivan 6 every year for this Feast Day, the original day God gave the 10 Commandments from Mt. Sinai. The next day, the 7th, was when the Israelites entered into their blood covenant with God to keep His law. Ex. 24:1-9

All these numbers possibly being coincidence, of course.

 You nailed this one.   From Tishri 1 to end of Sivan 6, [3.5 years later]  is 1333 - 1336 days long about 60% of all such intervals [of 3.5 years].  A trumpet is blown at the end of Pentecost to signify the end of festivities.   Day 1335, could be considered to occur at the beginning or the end of that day.   But Pentecost will be the 1335th day.   

Blessings

The PuP 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[Here is the post I thought I lost, but Windows updates just screwed with my OpenOffice program.]

Standard translation:

Dan. 12:11 And from the time that the daily/continual service shall be taken away, and an abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be 1290 days. 12 Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the 1335 days.

Literal translation of verse 11: And/now from the time the daily/continual service has been caused to be taken away and/even to a placing of an abomination of desolation shall be 1290 days.

And/now; and/even”: the Hebrew conjunction vav: ו. It usually is translated “and,” but also can mean “but, or, even, yet, when.”

has been caused to be taken away”: Hophal Perfect 3ms of the verb סור. Hophal stems express causative action with a passive voice. Perfect tense means completed action (past, present, or future, here obviously being future).

to”: ל This is the Hebrew preposition that means “to” or “for.” It has been omitted from the translations of nearly all versions of the Bible. Of the versions I have at hand, it is found only in Young's Literal Translation.

The addition of the preposition “to” can make a significant difference in the meaning of the verse. Instead of understanding the reading to mean that the Abomination of Desolation is placed right after the daily service is stopped, it now can be understood to mean that 1290 days will elapse between the end of services and the placement of the AD.: ʻfrom the time of the [removal] even to the AD shall be 1290 days.ʼ

The reason I began this string was to flesh out the obscure verse of Daniel 12:11, which prophesies the 1290 days in the End Times. I started in the first post with one understanding of its meaning, but now am considering an entirely different understanding.

Any comments from the Worthy brain trust on the literal translation?

 

 

Edited by WilliamL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/16/2018 at 11:38 AM, WilliamL said:

Any comments from the Worthy brain trust on the literal translation?

On 10/16/2018 at 11:38 AM, WilliamL said:

 

Lets put it this way.  There are an additional 30 day and a 45 day period following the 1260 day period.  (A/D set up at the mid point)

So the question should be?  What is going on during these two periods.  30 days to do what?, and 45 days to do what?

In Christ

Montana Marv

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have time to share it right now, but the math, when you take the parts from Daniel, and the parts for Revelation, and put the math from both together, it doesn't have a gap.  The difficulty is how one counts forward through the week, and the other counts backwards from the end back through the week.  It is actually quite perfect.  I do not understand how so many scholars fail to handle the puzzle pieces properly, it is simple once you put them together.  See if you can figure it out if you have time.  I will share it later.   The mid-frame is also perfect....it made me cry once I charted it out, it was that beautiful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/17/2018 at 7:24 PM, God's Servant said:

I don't have time to share it right now...  I will share it later.

I am waiting with bated breath...I think.   :bored-1:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/16/2018 at 12:38 PM, WilliamL said:

[Here is the post I thought I lost, but Windows updates just screwed with my OpenOffice program.]

Standard translation:

Dan. 12:11 And from the time that the daily/continual service shall be taken away, and an abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be 1290 days. 12 Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the 1335 days.

Literal translation of verse 11: And/now from the time the daily/continual service has been caused to be taken away and/even to a placing of an abomination of desolation shall be 1290 days.

And/now; and/even”: the Hebrew conjunction vav: ו. It usually is translated “and,” but also can mean “but, or, even, yet, when.”

has been caused to be taken away”: Hophal Perfect 3ms of the verb סור. Hophal stems express causative action with a passive voice. Perfect tense means completed action (past, present, or future, here obviously being future).

to”: ל This is the Hebrew preposition that means “to” or “for.” It has been omitted from the translations of nearly all versions of the Bible. Of the versions I have at hand, it is found only in Young's Literal Translation.

The addition of the preposition “to” can make a significant difference in the meaning of the verse. Instead of understanding the reading to mean that the Abomination of Desolation is placed right after the daily service is stopped, it now can be understood to mean that 1290 days will elapse between the end of services and the placement of the AD.: ʻfrom the time of the [removal] even to the AD shall be 1290 days.ʼ

The reason I began this string was to flesh out the obscure verse of Daniel 12:11, which prophesies the 1290 days in the End Times. I started in the first post with one understanding of its meaning, but now am considering an entirely different understanding.

Any comments from the Worthy brain trust on the literal translation?

 

 

 You say that you are:

"Considering an entirely different understanding".

And I have heard you refer to yourself as a "short tribber".  Am i rightly understanding you to mean that the great tribulation occurs between days 1290 and 1335?  Could you elaborate some? 

The PuP 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/23/2018 at 3:10 PM, WilliamL said:

I am waiting with bated breath...I think.   :bored-1:

I posted it in General Discussion under a different thread by mistake; The True Number of the Beast.  You are welcome to read it there, I think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Daniel 11:21-32 prophesied the acts of Antiochus IV Epiphanes, Seleucid King of Syria (r. 176 – ca. 164 B.C.), one of Daniel 11ʼs “Kings of the North.” An extensive summary of the relevant history has just gone up on my blog, entitled Antiochus Epiphanes and the End Times, Part 1: The History.

We can see the same sequence of events both in the days of Antiochus and in the days of the End Timesʼ King of the North:

1. Lawlessness and Apostasy: of the Jewish people and priests, beginning in the latter 170s B.C., // and likewise, in the Latter Days of the Church. 1 Macc. 1:11; 2:15ʼs apostasia; etc.; Daniel 8:12-13ʼs and 9:24ʼs pesha; Dan. 11:23 // Dan. 11:41; 2 Thes. 2:3ʼs lawlessness and apostasia; Matt. 24:10, 12; etc.

2. Invasion of Egypt, followed by a furious return to the Holy Land. Dan. 11:29-30 // Dan. 11:42-45

3. An Abomination of Desolation being set up. 1 Macc. 1:54; Dan. 11:31 // Dan. 12:11; Matt. 24:15; 2 Thes. 2:4

4. Persecution of and flight/escape of Godʼs people to the wilderness. 1 Macc. 2:28-29; [Dan. 11:32] // Dan. 12:1; Matt. 24:9, 16; Luke 21:36; Rev. 12:6

The former time of apostasy and lawlessness committed by Godʼs priests and people began in the latter 170s B.C., when –

1 Macc. 1:11 In those days lawless men came forth from Israel and misled many, saying, “Let us go and make a covenant with the Gentiles...” 13 …some of the people eagerly went to the king [Antiochus]. He authorized them to observe the ordinances of the Gentiles. 14 So they…abandoned the holy covenant. Dan. 11:23 And some [of the Jews] binding themselves with him, he act[ed] deceitfully, and r[o]se up and bec[a]me strong with a small nation. 2 Macc. 4:7-9 Jason, the brother of [High Priest] Onias [III], obtained the high priesthood by corruption, [paying a large bribe to Antiochus. :10 Jason then] shifted his countrymen over to the Greek way of life. …14 …the priests were no longer intent upon their service at the altar. 23 After a period of three years…Menelaus… 24 …secured the high priesthood for himself, outbidding Jason… 25 [Being a Benjamite, he] possess[ed] no qualifications for the high priesthood… [32-34 Using gold vessels he stole from the temple, he then bribed Antiochusʼs deputy to have Onias III assassinated, ca. 172/1 B.C.]

This era was prophesied in Dan. 8:12-14, and its “pesha/transgression/lawlessness” was to continue “for 2300 days; then the sanctuary [would] be cleansed.” According to the history of the Books of Maccabees, the ultimate overthrow of the priesthood by Menelaus lasted from the latter 170s B.C. (no precise dates given, but enough information to make a rough estimate) up to the cleansing of the sanctuary by the Maccabees in 165 B.C. Now, 2300 days = about 6.3 years, a seeming fit for the length of that period. The Abomination of desolation by Antiochus did not take place until Dec. 168 B.C., so roughly 3+ years into the 2300 days..

So now to the 1290 days in the End Times, which is 3.53 solar years: we read in Dan. 11:41 that early on, the King of the North “shall enter the Glorious Land, and many shall be enfeebled/overthrown…” Following this, “he shall stretch out his hand against lands, and the land of Egypt shall not escape…also the Libyans and Cushites…” 11:42-43

An undetermined number of months/years later,

Dan. 11:44 …news from the north and the east shall trouble him; therefore he shall go out with great fury… 45 And he shall plant the tents of his pavilion…at the glorious holy mountain… 12:1 And in that time Michael shall stand up [cf. Rev. 12:7]…and there shall be a time of trouble such as never was…

– which is the same wording Jesus used in Matt. 24:21 to describe the Great Tribulation.

So to sum up: if the Latter Day King of the North “takes away” Daniel 12:11ʼs “daily/continual services” when he first “enters the Glorious Holy Land,” through subverting its political and/or religious leaders – “many shall be enfeebled/overthrown” – then the 1290 days would begin at that point, and conclude with the Abomination of Desolation some 3½ years later. The subjection of “lands” – Egypt and Islamic North Africa – could easily take that long, prior to the final crisis. Just as Antiochus was successful in first subverting many of the priests and people, and subsequently succeeded in his original invasion of Egypt, a number of years before he committed his utter desolation/defilement of the Temple in 168 B.C.

This Latter Day scenario seems to me to be a real possibility. Whether or not this is how things will play out remains to be seen. Something else to watch for.

All of these events would then be followed by the final 45 days up to 1335: these 45 days (or part thereof) would be the “short trib.” A short trib fits my understanding for other reasons, which I provide in my blog post Forty Days. The full 1335 days may well end on Pentecost and/or the day before, which two days were the original date of (1st day) Godʼs descent accompanied by earthquake and clouds upon Mount Sinai, and (2nd day) His chosen being called up into His Presence. Being a type and shadow of Christʼs descent and His peoplesʼ ascent.

Therefore, the 1290 days would be both pre-trib and pre-wrath.

The 1260 days “until the end of these wonders,” during which “the hand/power of the holy people [shall be] completely shattered/scattered” (Dan. 12:6-7), does not begin until their flight/escape into the wilderness, which occurs after the Abomination of Desolation. Dan. 12:1; Matt. 24:15-16, 21

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...