When do Revelations seals open

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Why would the two witnesses be ascending to heaven when Jesus and the saints are coming down from heaven? The beast rises before His second coming Iam. Layering Iam layering, non chronological...............

Rev 9:1 The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss.

Rev 9:2 When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss.

Rev 11:7 Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them.

Rev 17:8 The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come.

Your TIMING is off: Jesus does NOT descent at day 2520.  The events of chapters 17 & 18 happen first. 

When the 7th vial is poured out that ends the week, Jesus is preparing the saints for the marriage and supper. the Old TEstament saints will have just arrived - raptured at the 7th vial. 

The beast rises before His second coming Iam.  Why on earth would you make a statement like this? OF COURSE the Beast rises at the midpoint or very shortly after. I have never said anything to even hint any other timing.  You are not "layering" - you are teaching something other than what is written - and for no other reason than you just can't believe John. 

Rev. 9:2 will be over half way through the FIRST HALF of the week. 

No one puts the Destroyer who came out at the 5th trumpet back in again. He will then be free to attack the Two witnesses when they are finished - just 3.5 days before the 7th vial that ends the week.  Always remember, 11:4 through 11:13 is a parenthesis - no bearing on chronology.  John's chronology is as follows:

3 1/2 days or slightly more before the abomination the man of sin will enter Jerusalem with Gentile armies. The 42 month countdown of the city trampled begins. 

A second or two (perhaps) after the man of sin arrives in Jerusalem, the two witnesses suddenly show up and begin their testimony.  It is 3.5 days before the abomination.  Their 1260 days begins.

11:14: first and second woe are finished: here comes #3.

11:15 the 7th trumpet sounds

12:6 those in Judea being their fleeing. Their count begins right here. 

12:7 The WAR in heaven begins. 

Skip over many things to the end:

3 1/2 days before the end of the week, the two witnesses 1260 days are up, and they are killed. They lay dead for 3.5 days and suddenly RISE UP  - on the 7th vial. I believe ALL the Old Testament saints rise with them. I think THEY are Old Testament saints.

This is John's God given chronology. Anything else is myth.

Rev. 17:7  The beast came out of the abyss and never went back. He is free at the end of the week to kill the two witnesses. 

[iamlamad]

45 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Do you believe the heads and horns and crowns might have a deeper meaning and purpose? Was the beast system and the mark of the beast in Rev 13 set up in Herod's day, or is it still future. Who are the ten kings, ten kingdoms and seven hills in Herod's day? Take your time Iam, I'm here all day.

Daniel 7:24 And the ten horns are ten kings who will rise from this kingdom. After them another king, different from the earlier ones, will rise and subdue three kings.

Daniel 11:36 Then the king will do as he pleases and will exalt and magnify himself above every god, and he will speak monstrous things against the God of gods. He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, for what has been decreed must be accomplished.

Rev 13:1 The dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.

Rev 17:9 “This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits.

Rev 17:12 "The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast.

I think we were discussing WHO the Dragon was in chapter 12. He is mentioned 32 times. He is Satan, the devil. Make no mistake here! John TELLS US:

⁹ And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

The Dragon  = Satan & Satan = the Dragon   It's pretty simple. One would have to work very hard to make it complicated.  So we have identified WHO He is.  I am not going to get into the heads and horns. 

[Heb 13:8]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

Sorry, but Paul TELLS US: an instant after the dead in Christ rise, two groups of people get different results:

Those living IN CHRIST will get raptured and taken to heaven.

No, peace and safety is when Israel is living without walls, gates and bars in the first 3.5 years. Ez 38 and sudden destruction will begin at the A of D. Ez 39 will end the 70th week.

Ez 38:11 You will say, "I will invade a land of unwalled villages; I will attack a peaceful and unsuspecting people--all of them living without walls and without gates and bars.

1 Thess 5:3 While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

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WHEN then does the sudden destruction? Maybe 5 seconds after Christ comes and the trumpet sounds.

Notice the word "escape" here below. This is referring to the latter 3.5 years, in which earthly Israel escapes into the wilderness for the latter 3.5 years in Rev 12:6, 14. It's clear to me that the sudden destruction occurs at the A of D. It's actually quite simple.

Luke 21:36 Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man."

1 Thess 5:3 While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

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Those living in darkness get SUDDEN DESTRUCTION.

The Day of the Lord coming like a thief in 1 Thess 5:2 is referring to the A of D, and the latter 3.5 years. Paul later says in his letter in 2 Thess 2:2 that the Day of the Lord comes when the Antichrist sits in the temple, via 2 Thess 2:4

1Th 5:2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.

2Th 2:2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come.

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..

The word "revealed" is actually mentioned three times in this chapter. Paul shows us that the restrainer which is the church will be removed prior to the antichrist sitting in the temple. The Day of the Lord will begin at the A of D.

2 Thess 2:3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness a is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 

2 Thess 2:6And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time.

2 Thess 2:7For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way.

2 Thess 2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 

[Heb 13:8]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

NOT! The rapture will be history by the time those in Judea flee and Satan is kicked out of the heavens.

I agree!! Rev 14:14-16 is referring to pre-trib rapture. Non chronological all day long bro...... 

[Heb 13:8]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

Your TIMING is off: Jesus does NOT descent at day 2520.  The events of chapters 17 & 18 happen first. 

When the 7th vial is poured out that ends the week, Jesus is preparing the saints for the marriage and supper. the Old TEstament saints will have just arrived - raptured at the 7th vial. 

Hmm...

Zech 14:5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.

Matt 24:29 "Immediately after the distress of those days "'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'

Rev 16:18 Then there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder and a severe earthquake. No earthquake like it has ever occurred since mankind has been on earth, so tremendous was the quake.

[Heb 13:8]

22 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

I think we were discussing WHO the Dragon was in chapter 12. He is mentioned 32 times. He is Satan, the devil. Make no mistake here! John TELLS US:

⁹ And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

The Dragon  = Satan & Satan = the Dragon   It's pretty simple. One would have to work very hard to make it complicated.  So we have identified WHO He is.  I am not going to get into the heads and horns. 

I understand the Dragon is Satan, I'm not debating that.

Scripture tells us who the heads and horns represent, these are kings and kingdoms, via people who Satan has authority over inside the 70th week. Do you believe in demonic possession, Isa 14:12-15, Ez 28:11–19 ?

Isa 14:9 The realm of the dead below is all astir to meet you at your coming; it rouses the spirits of the departed to greet you-- all those who were leaders in the world; it makes them rise from their thrones-- all those who were kings over the nations.

Isa 14:16 Those who see you stare at you, they ponder your fate: "Is this the man who shook the earth and made kingdoms tremble,

Ez 28:12 "Son of man, take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre and say to him: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: "'You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.

[Last Daze]

18 hours ago, iamlamad said:

You are too funny! God is going to rapture the church with sickles? Paul never mentioned sickles. 

Look, when a sickle is used to harvest, perhaps a stalk of corn, when the sickly cuts the corn stalk, the stalk dies.  Sorry, but this does not picutre the rapture where dead people come back to life and the alive are changed 

For your consideration:

• And He was saying, “The kingdom of God is like a man who casts seed upon the soil; and he goes to bed at night and gets up by day, and the seed sprouts and grows—how, he himself does not know.  The soil produces crops by itself; first the blade, then the head, then the mature grain in the head.  But when the crop permits, he immediately puts in the sickle, because the harvest has come.”  Mark 4:26-29

[iamlamad]

46 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

For your consideration:

• And He was saying, “The kingdom of God is like a man who casts seed upon the soil; and he goes to bed at night and gets up by day, and the seed sprouts and grows—how, he himself does not know.  The soil produces crops by itself; first the blade, then the head, then the mature grain in the head.  But when the crop permits, he immediately puts in the sickle, because the harvest has come.”  Mark 4:26-29

They did not have hillside combines in those days. Everything was by hand All farmers knew what a sickle was. They all knew what a harvest was.  Jesus used what people knew to teach them about Godly things.  One thing I am sure of: God is not going to harvest people with some giant sickle. That is only a picture of the harvest and it is also prophetic, NOT happening at that moment but what is soon to come. Chapter 14 is still a midpoint chapter.  The days of GT caused by the Beast and False prophet, the image and the mark, will get underway as chapter 14 closes.  The beheaded BEGIN to show up in heaven in chapter 15.  But prewrath theory places the days of GT in the seals! 

Thanks.

[iamlamad]

7 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

I understand the Dragon is Satan, I'm not debating that.

Scripture tells us who the heads and horns represent, these are kings and kingdoms, via people who Satan has authority over inside the 70th week. Do you believe in demonic possession, Isa 14:12-15, Ez 28:11–19 ?

Isa 14:9 The realm of the dead below is all astir to meet you at your coming; it rouses the spirits of the departed to greet you-- all those who were leaders in the world; it makes them rise from their thrones-- all those who were kings over the nations.

Isa 14:16 Those who see you stare at you, they ponder your fate: "Is this the man who shook the earth and made kingdoms tremble,

Ez 28:12 "Son of man, take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre and say to him: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: "'You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.

Then finally we agree on something! Hallelujah! I believe in miracles. I believe as soon as Satan is cast down, he will possess the man of sin. And at that moment the man of sin will turn into the Antichrist Beast. 

[iamlamad]

7 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Hmm...

Zech 14:5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.

Matt 24:29 "Immediately after the distress of those days "'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'

Rev 16:18 Then there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder and a severe earthquake. No earthquake like it has ever occurred since mankind has been on earth, so tremendous was the quake.

You can try and put verses together, as if God meant for them to be together. So can I:

Matthew 27:5
And he [Judas Iscariot] ..., went and hanged himself.

Luke 10:37
... Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

1 Thes 5
18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

Jesus will touch down and an earthquake will happen that will create a great valley. 

Should I then link His touchdown with the 6th seal earthquake - just because it is an earthquake? Should I then say that they all are the SAME earthquake, and warp the 7th vial back to the 6th seal and Jesus coming in chapter 19 back to the 6th seal? 

A word of advice from a very wise professor at a bible college:  "Since God is a self-revealing God and over time reveals more and more, then form doctrine from the latest revelation. Form doctrine from the most complete revelation of end times. Then fill in missing pieces from other scriptures." 

Example: the Old Testament may give a one liner where Revelation may devote an entire chapter to the same thing.  Jesus gave is a one liner: "then shall be great tribulation" but Revelation explains why and how. Daniel gives us a one liner on the 70th week, but Revelation gives us 9 chapters on Daniel's 70th week. 

In other words, we should form our doctrine from Revelation, as the latest revelation from God, and because it is the most complete.  Instead, people such as prewrathers form doctrine from snippets taken from various scriptures, NOT understood, and then are forced to rearrange the entire book of Revelation to make their false theories fit.  But the worst part is, they get on public forums and attempt to teach others their error!

I have no doubt there was an earthquake in the days of Uzziah. I have no doubt people fled. Zechariah is telling them that when Jesus touches down an earthquake will take place, and give the captives a place to run to freedom. I have no doubt it is a DIFFERENT earthquake than that at the 7th vial. It is also different than the one at the 6th seal.  However, the earthquake when the two witnesses rise will be the same very earthquake we see at the 7th vial. 

Until you learn to believe that Revelation is in its proper order of sequence, that things will happen in the very same order that John wrote them, you will be teaching error.  Did you not know? The events of Revelation  make perfect sense the way John wrote them!