What exactly will be seen during the Rapture

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On 10/9/2018 at 9:43 PM, R. Hartono said:

Jesus will first gather the elect to heaven, then after 7 years He will return with the saints to Armageddon battle to defeat antichrist and then He will land on Mount Olive to begin His Millennium.

John 14:2 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

His Fathers house is described in the Book of Revelation.. It is the New Jerusalem..  Where we shall live with Jesus forever.. That is the place with many mansions.. Now what does the book of Revelation say about what will happen to the New Jerusalem at the end times??  Lets see..

Revelation 21: KJV

2"And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. {3} And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. {4} And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away."

So the New Jerusalem comes out of heaven so we shall not be living in heaven for eternity.. It's coming down from God to us who will be on the New Earth..

[enoob57]

33 minutes ago, ARGOSY said:

What makes you think there will be years between those two events, rather than hours?

The Judgment seat of Christ where only those of the Church will be present then entering into the marriage supper of The Lamb....

[ARGOSY]

4 hours ago, enoob57 said:

The Judgment seat of Christ where only those of the Church will be present then entering into the marriage supper of The Lamb....

I'm not sure what you are referring to here. I see the wedding feast occurring earlier on the day of the Lord. we are not appointed to wrath, this is why we are raptured earlier on that day. What verses do you have that favor years between the two events, rather than just hours? I suspect only the assumption of the pre-trib rapture would support your view.

[enoob57]

3 minutes ago, ARGOSY said:

I'm not sure what you are referring to here. I see the wedding feast occurring earlier on the day of the Lord. we are not appointed to wrath, this is why we are raptured earlier on that day. What verses do you have that favor years between the two events, rather than just hours? I suspect only the assumption of the pre-trib rapture would support your view.

That is correct … it is a studied opinion!

Edited October 30, 2018 by enoob57

[ARGOSY]

25 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

That is correct … it is a studied opinion!

 

Thanks Enoob57 for expressing your opinion.

But if you can't explain your studied opinion, it does not make for good discussion on a discussion website.  Neither will you give strength to your view.  Generally the biblical basis for the pre-trib view is to take a few verses out of context. And use this to separate obviously overlapping events into two sets of similar events.  Thus the trumpet/coming of Christ/resurrection/gathering of saints is seen as two sets of matching events,because of a narrow view of Luke 21:36 and Rev 3:10 and an incorrect view of the man-child of Rev 12 and the restrainer of 2 Thess 2

Thus you abandon the obvious (four identical events) in favor of verses subject to interpretation.

[n2thelight]

Can someone please show me two 2nd comings,and we can go from there.

[ARGOSY]

1 minute ago, n2thelight said:

Can someone please show me two 2nd comings,and we can go from there.

Exactly, there are not two , just one.  In Matthew 24 when the disciples ask when Jesus will come again, Jesus mentions the second coming and the gathering of the saints, not any earlier rapture.

Yet when the gathering of the saints is mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15, this too occurs at the coming of Christ. There is just one coming of Christ, not two. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. ²³ But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.²⁴ Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

[n2thelight]

On 10/26/2018 at 3:48 AM, n2thelight said:

The only way one gets to heaven before the return of Christ is if they die first.

Now I'm sure(but not really)most on these forums have more than a 5th grade education,with that said ,let's break this down

II Thessalonians 2:1 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,"

I'm almost certain you were all taught to follow the subject,so what's the subject of the above?Answer,Christ coming and our gathering to Him.

II Thessalonians 2:2 "That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is  at hand."

II Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come [it will not be], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

Jesus Christ is not gathering anyone to Him, nor is He coming here to earth, except there be a falling away first. The word for "falling away", in the Greek is "apostasy". Jesus told us in His revelation to John, in Revelation 9:11, that "Apollyon" is one of Satan's names, and this name is derived from the word apostasy.

The word "perdition" means "one that perishes". Satan and only Satan has already been condemned to die [to perish] by God. Satan's judgment day has come already back in the first earth age, and he will have no part in the Great White Throne judgment, or any other judgment yet to come. He has already been judged, and sentence by God to death "perdition" [Ezekiel 28 covers this judgment].

What did Paul say again?

Jesus Christ is coming back to this earth, but the saints of Christ will not be gathered to Him until the "son of perdition" [Satan] be revealed first. 

Now let's see who comes with Christ when He returns

I Thessalonians 4:13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."

Okay let's do this subject thing again,what is it?

Those who are asleep(died) and you not being ignorant .

I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

Now following the subject,whom does Christ bring with Him?

Those who sleep(died)or those who were raptured?

Again the only way one gets to Heaven is if they die first,I don't see nothing that says those raptured return with Him,it says those that have died return with Him,period!!!!!

If we believe, as a Christian, that Christ set the example for us; so that we will follow as He did, in dying, and rising again, then "to sleep" is to be dead from the flesh body. The Greek is a simple language, for it's structure allows one to be more precise. The subject in the frame of this verse is; "that ye not be ignorant as to where the dead are." If you're a Christian, you know and believe that Jesus Christ died, was buried, and on the third day arose and came out of the tomb. If you do not believe this, Paul classifies you as ignorant, and heathen [non-believer].

It was on the fortieth day that he ascended back to the Father. When Jesus ascended into heaven, all the souls went with him into heaven also, that had passed on, up to that point in time. The souls of some went to wait for that time of judgment, while others to the glory of God. Those that sleep [are dead] are not out there in a hole in the ground, but all Christians must believe that they arose to be with the Father, just like Christ did also. The dead are with God; all of them. "To be absent from the body [flesh body] is to be present with the Lord." Ecclesiastes 12:7.

 

Paul, in another writing, told us exactly; as far as the return of Jesus Christ, when we would be gathered back to Him. That goes also for when we would see those who are asleep [dead], and that exact moment is at the sounding of the seventh [last] trumpet. It will happen very quickly, in the wink [twinkling] of an eye. I Corinthians 15:50-54 tells us we will not go away to any place, but stay right here on earth. We are going to be changed into our new Spiritual bodies, and put off these flesh bodies.

Paul says, "Behold I show you a mystery". In other words, Paul is going to reveal something so we will not be ignorant about it. "We shall not all sleep [die] but we shall all be changed." I Corinthians 15:51 Changed to what? The same thing the dead are, and that is the subject. All those still in the flesh body, at a certain moment [the sounding of the seventh trumpet] will shed this flesh body [corruptible and perishable body] and take on the new "incorruptible" body. Friend, That is the hope and salvation of the Christian.

To document this, in I Corinthians 15:50 we are told that "flesh and blood cannot inherit", or face Jesus Christ in His kingdom. Christ's kingdom will cover the entire earth, and that is why the flesh body must perish. The time of this change comes at the seventh trumpet, which is the last trump, and stated in verse 52, "for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed".

Those who are even dead spiritually will be raised in an incorruptible body. That is a body that doesn't get sick, or grow old; in other words, it is your spiritual body.

Why?

Because the Kingdom of God is where ever Christ is; and at the seventh trump Christ will be on earth with the saints, and setting up his 1000 year millennium kingdom. No flesh and blood body can exist in that kingdom. This is your "gathering back to Christ", and that is what the rapture meaning is all about. It is the time when Christ comes back to earth and the saints that are alive are changed and drawn to Him.

 

 

 

 

Anyone care to attempt a dispute here?

[n2thelight]

On 10/26/2018 at 4:36 AM, n2thelight said:

Now let's do the,I go prepare a place for you.

John 14:2 "In My Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you."

Have you ever heard Christians say before, "I have a mansion in the sky"? Friend, that is not what "mansions" is talking about here, however it is even more beautiful then those thoughts of a large house in the sky. Let's take the word "mansions" as written in the Greek text. "Mansions" is "mone", # 3438 in the Strong's Greek dictionary, and pronounced, "mon-ay' ". It means a place to rest and abide where there is no trouble. Friend, this resting place is in Christ and the Father, that is the resting.

Now the subject is in verse one.

John 14:1 "Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in Me."

What is the subject of this chapter,? "Don't worry." Jesus is telling you don't worry at any time if you believe.

John 14:3 "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto Myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."

This is Jesus' promise to you and I today, as much as it was to those eleven disciples sitting at the supper table with Him two thousand years ago. Jesus is telling us that we can count on Him, He is returning to earth to receive His own, and be with them here on earth during the Millennium age Kingdom.

John 14:4 "And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know."

Why? Because for the last three years Jesus told them over and over about His journey to the cross, His death and His resurrection. This is the way to the place where the preparation is made for theirs and our return to Him. That way leads down the path to the cross, and at His death it leads into the tomb where on the third day, Jesus rose for the dead to ascended to be with the father fifty days later.

Our resting place is in His Word, and under the shed blood of Jesus.

 

 

This as well......

[iamlamad]

On 10/30/2018 at 2:26 AM, ARGOSY said:

Exactly, there are not two , just one.  In Matthew 24 when the disciples ask when Jesus will come again, Jesus mentions the second coming and the gathering of the saints, not any earlier rapture.

Yet when the gathering of the saints is mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15, this too occurs at the coming of Christ. There is just one coming of Christ, not two. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. ²³ But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.²⁴ Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

TWO comings: the next coming is shown in 1 thes. 4 & 5. He will be coming FOR His bride.  He will not touch down, but be hidden in a glory cloud. He will then escort the church to heaven, where He will remain during the entire 70th week.

Rev. 19 shows His THIRD (3rd) coming, where He will return WITH His saints to rule and reign on earth.

 

Never the twain shall meet.

Edited October 31, 2018 by iamlamad