Does Apostasia in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Refer to a ‘Physical Departure’

[Diaste]

30 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Anyone that makes this comment I just shake my head at. What it proves is you know how to repeat someone else's comment that was unintelligible when they made it 20 years ago and is still so 20 years later when repeated. 

I do like the disparaging language, means your frustrated.

30 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

The Passages says what it says, not what you just quoted someone else as saying years ago. 

The Day of the Lord ( God's Wrath..GET IT ? ) can not happen............UNTIL...........the Departure of the Church or Rapture.......AND....the Man of Sin comes forth...................[THEN the Day of the Lord or God's Wrath can come upon you].

You misquote. Its "the coming of our lord Jesus AND the gathering of us to him" IT IS BOTH.

So then pretrib actually says, "the coming AND gathering cannot happen until the 'departure'".

Silly string.

30 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

What you quited either proves you don't understand the passage at all, or you are being facetious on purpose. I mean no can actually really confuse it that way you are doing on purpose can they ? 

How so? Because the logic isn't clear to you?

[Last Daze]

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

Anyone that makes this comment I just shake my head at. What it proves is you know how to repeat someone else's comment that was unintelligible when they made it 20 years ago and is still so 20 years later when repeated. 

The Passages says what it says, not what you just quoted someone else as saying years ago. 

The Day of the Lord ( God's Wrath..GET IT ? ) can not happen............UNTIL...........the Departure of the Church or Rapture.......AND....the Man of Sin comes forth...................[THEN the Day of the Lord or God's Wrath can come upon you].

What you quited either proves you don't understand the passage at all, or you are being facetious on purpose. I mean no can actually really confuse it that way you are doing on purpose can they ? 

I'll explain it as clearly and succinctly as I possibly can and everyone can decide for themselves.

• Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.  Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction.  2 Thessalonians 2:1-3

This passage correlates the day of the Lord with the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him (the rapture).

Paul says that it, the day of the Lord (when the rapture takes place), will not come unless the apostasy takes place first.

If the apostasy is a reference to the rapture, as pretribbers claim, then Paul is saying that the rapture won't happen until the rapture happens first.  Huh??

[Revelation Man]

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

I said "rapture" does not appear in the GREEK. The KJV is not taken from the Vulgate, but rather the copies of the original writings. 

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And thus neither does "SNATCHED AWAY" or "Jesus" for that matter. The Greek says Ιησούς not Jesus. Harpazo means RAPTURE. That is all I stated. Paul wrote it. 

 

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

Sounds like you had  a rough time. Not sure how that verifies you are speaking truth.

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Not at all, it sounds like your average Christian being brought towards Jesus a his life goes on.......we should grow, way to many people don't, nor can they learn because they KNOW IT ALL ALREADY !!  I see people speaking the book of Revelation in many of these message boards and its clear they have no clue about the book o Revelation, but they can't learn it because they think they truly know it. 

 

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

It is clear you are nothing more than a preacher.

Again, humbug.

Great attitude, you should have stuck with your other post above, it was just as informative. What you going to do when you get to Heaven and find out you have been Raptured ? You ain't going to demand to be sent back are you ? 

[Revelation Man]

On 11/26/2018 at 9:17 AM, Diaste said:

I do like the disparaging language, means your frustrated.

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No, its truth, that comment/quote was incoherent when it was put out 20 years ago, it's nonsensical verbiage. The fact that you would pleasure in someone's frustration is kinda telling of you and your Christian walk isn't it sir ? But it sounds like you have just described yourself. 

Humbug fits that narrative doesn't it ?

 

On 11/26/2018 at 9:17 AM, Diaste said:

You misquote. Its "the coming of our lord Jesus AND the gathering of us to him" IT IS BOTH.

So then pretrib actually says, "the coming AND gathering cannot happen until the 'departure'".

Silly string.

It says no such think I shant waste my time explaining the obvious.

 

On 11/26/2018 at 9:17 AM, Diaste said:

How so? Because the logic isn't clear to you?

Because the verse doesn't say what you imply at all........

Edited December 8, 2018 by Revelation Man

[Revelation Man]

2 hours ago, Last Daze said:

I'll explain it as clearly and succinctly as I possibly can and everyone can decide for themselves.

• Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.  Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction.  2 Thessalonians 2:1-3

This passage correlates the day of the Lord with the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him (the rapture).

Paul says that it, the day of the Lord (when the rapture takes place), will not come unless the apostasy takes place first.

If the apostasy is a reference to the rapture, as pretribbers claim, then Paul is saying that the rapture won't happen until the rapture happens first.  Huh??

Now I see why you guys are CONFUSED.....You both wrongfully think the Day of th Lord is when Jesus RETURNS......

After years I finally understand your MISUNDERSTANDINGS ON THIS NOW (At least you were serious).........You think the Day of the Lord is when Jesus returns, but its not, it is when the Wrath of God starts and thus LASTS for 3.5 years until the Second Coming. 

Thus the day of the Lord IS NOT when Jesus Return, its when God's Wrath STARTS with the Anti-Christ going forward for 1260 Days, then and ONLY THEN will Jesus return brother.

Getting things wrong will throw one off...............

[Last Daze]

14 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Now I see why you guys are CONFUSED.....You both wrongfully think the Day of th Lord is when Jesus RETURNS......

After years I finally understand your MISUNDERSTANDINGS ON THIS NOW (At least you were serious).........You think the Day of the Lord is when Jesus returns, but its not, it is when the Wrath of God starts and thus LASTS for 3.5 years until the Second Coming. 

Thus the day of the Lord IS NOT when Jesus Return, its when God's Wrath STARTS with the Anti-Christ going forward for 1260 Days, then and ONLY THEN will Jesus return brother.

Getting things wrong will throw one off...............

People can read it and decide for themselves.

[Diaste]

On 11/26/2018 at 12:08 PM, Revelation Man said:

Great attitude, you should have stuck with your other post above, it was just as informative. What you going to do when you get to Heaven and find out you have been Raptured ? You ain't going to demand to be sent back are you ? 

If by "raptured" you mean the gathering of the elect, pretrib, i wont fret, no pretrib 'rapture'.

[Diaste]

On 11/26/2018 at 12:21 PM, Revelation Man said:

Now I see why you guys are CONFUSED.....You both wrongfully think the Day of th Lord is when Jesus RETURNS......

After years I finally understand your MISUNDERSTANDINGS ON THIS NOW (At least you were serious).........You think the Day of the Lord is when Jesus returns, but its not, it is when the Wrath of God starts and thus LASTS for 3.5 years until the Second Coming. 

Thus the day of the Lord IS NOT when Jesus Return, its when God's Wrath STARTS with the Anti-Christ going forward for 1260 Days, then and ONLY THEN will Jesus return brother.

Getting things wrong will throw one off...............

Really? Cause the sixth seal is when Jesus returns, when wrath 'has come'. After the martyrs. 

[Revelation Man]

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

Really? Cause the sixth seal is when Jesus returns, when wrath 'has come'. After the martyrs. 

Jesus returns at the 7th Vial. Here is what you guys do, you can't understand/figure out Revelation as per it chronological order, so you have the Seals, Trumpets and Vials as all being the same event or you have Jesus returning to Rapture the Church at the 6th Seal all because you can't understand God's Wrath starts at the 1st Seal. Revelation is hard to figure out, but once its been explained it should be fairly easy to understand, but you guys still can't figure it out.  Likewise not understanding the Rapture is also telling. 

[Steve Conley]

Greetings to all in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Gentlemen, there is no profit in responding to Bable Man ( I will not call him something that he is not. I have renamed him to fit his teaching, confusion). He knows all prophecy. God told him personally, just ask him.

Spiritual blindness is a heart problem. Some men love esteem and praise (even if they have to praise themselves) more than they love truth. If we simply present (preach) the truth frequently, reproving false teaching, those who love truth more than the esteem of their peers will be recovered from the darkness and led into the glorious light. Those who are spiritually blind will only come to the light through repentance. The longer they persist in opposition to the explicit statements of Christ, the Prophets, and the Apostles the further they will venture into the wresting of the Scriptures to their own destruction. That is where this recent false teaching of apostasia = rapture proceeds from. They continually find more and more references to the "pre-trib" rapture all the time. For instance, yesterday I heard one of them refer to "the mercy" in Jude 1:21 as meaning pre-trib rapture. Rejection of truth leads to darkness.

If you are caught up in the pre-trib deception, right now, from a sincere heart, pray: "God have mercy upon me, show me the truth even when I want a lie". Your deceitful heart wants a lie, it wants smooth things, and it loves to have it so. Repent.

Jer 17:9  The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Isa 30:10  Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:

Jer 5:31  The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

2Co 4:2  But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

There is only one future (2nd) coming (parousia) of Christ.

Act 3:19  Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Act 3:20  And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Act 3:21  Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Heb 9:28  So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

This coming (parousia) involves both our gathering together unto Jesus Christ in the clouds and the beginning of His wrath being poured out in the day of the Lord. It is on the same calendar day that we are rescued and His wrath begins to fall upon the earth dwellers

1Th 5:2  For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3  For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
...
1Th 5:9  For God hath not appointed us to wrath [wrath, in the day of the Lord, vs 2], but to obtain salvation [find rest and deliverance from persecution], by our Lord Jesus Christ [at His coming],

2Th 1:6  Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
2Th 1:7  And to you who are troubled [you who are being persecuted] rest [be delivered, be physically saved from persecution] with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8  In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9  Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10  When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Luk 17:26  And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27  They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:28  Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29  But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30  Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Dan 12:1  And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time [the time of unprecedented persecution] thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book [the believing Jews and the believing Gentiles who were graffed in amongst them will be raptured].

When one recognizes and believes even one of the many explicit truths like,  1) There is only one future coming (parousia) of Christ; 2) The day of our rescue, rapture, is the day God's "day of the Lord" wrath begins to fall upon the earth dwellers; or 3) God's wrath doesn't begin to fall until after the cosmic sign spoken of by Joel appears, it will force him or her away from the fallacious pre-trib system and he or she will no longer need to read that bankrupt system into the text wresting the Scriptures to their own destruction.

Glory be unto Jesus Christ