Those Days Will Be Shortened

[iamlamad]

9 minutes ago, choir loft said:

Dispensationalism was a term coined by John Nelson Darby in the mid-19th century.   He used it as a device to try to explain several different variations of millenialism.  

The term and the teaching, instead of clearing up a centuries old debate, clouded the matter further.  Darby wasn't a theologian, by the way, though he pretended to be one.  His division of a dispensation of Law vs. a dispensation of Grace was based on the false notion of Replacement Theology in that the Law is no longer in effect.   That much is a lie.  

Jesus was quoted in Matthew 5:17 saying the Law is NOT abolished.  Therefore Darby's idea about dividing history into dispensations is wrong.  Since the Law is still in effect there is no separation between Law and Grace.   Seems to me you are unfamiliar with the very ideology you're trying to defend - dispensationalism.

By the way, Darby was also a consort of witches.   A man is known by the company he keeps.   Is he your man?   Think again.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Holler away, but you did not answer the questions.

Do you not see a difference in what God expected from man before Moses brought the law and after the law was given? Do you not see a difference in what God expected before Jesus rose from the dead and after? 

Care to try again?

[iamlamad]

20 minutes ago, choir loft said:

 

I cannot believe how many people who consider themselves good God fearing Christians are here calling and hoping and teaching that a Second Holocaust is in the future.

SIX MILLION innocent dead people isn't enough for you that you demand more Jewish blood?

The posts here read like Nazi propaganda - calling for Jewish blood to be spilled so that whatever false leader they approve of will rise to the leadership of the world.

ENOUGH with these calls for murder of innocent Jews.   

Sixty Million people died during WWII including 6 additional millions of homosexuals, mentally retarded people, political opposition, and so on for a total of 12 million people.   Do you want and hope and pray for more innocent blood to be shed?

This is the most disgusting example of anti-semitic bloodlust I have read in a long time - and this from people who claim to be God fearing people.   You want to see millions more dead Jews?

What in God's name is wrong with you?  

We aren't talking about some abstract interpretation of misguided predictions here.  We're talking about a hope to see dead Jews.

I for one believe that time is over.  

It was called the holocaust and it was the most dreadful period in human history.   And not Jews only.  The 20th century saw more people martyred for Christ than any other time in history......AND YOU WANT MORE OF IT?

May God bless Israel and curse those who curse them.

May it be done to you even as you have hoped it to be done to Israel.

I for one hope and pray for the safety of Israel and peace for Jerusalem - from this time forward.  No more mass murder of Jews.  No more lying about them so as to usurp the inheritance God gave them.  May God bear witness between us who hopes for the death of Jews and who does not.

I DO NOT.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

If you were hollering FOR the word, that would be something; but it is a waste of time to be hollering against what is clearly written. Did Jesus or did he NOT say that the days of GT coming up after the abomination would be worse than any previous time ever?

Right, it WAS the most dreadful time, but Jesus said a WORSE time is coming.  You can ignore His words if you choose, but I would not recommend it. 

NO ONE here is "hoping" for days of GT - but they are in the word of God and are as sure to come as day follows night and night follows day.

[choir loft]

2 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Holler away, but you did not answer the questions.

Do you not see a difference in what God expected from man before Moses brought the law and after the law was given? Do you not see a difference in what God expected before Jesus rose from the dead and after? 

Care to try again?

THE LAW HAS NOT CHANGED, NEITHER HAS IT BEEN ABOLISHED.

Jesus said so and I think He knew what He was talking about.

God expects the same from us before Moses, after Moses and in Christ.   You are making reference to the Law which you seem not to understand.   The Law has not changed.

God expects man to obey His law.   The soul that sins shall surely die.  - Ezekiel 18:20

Grace does not subvert the Law.  Grace enables the Law that it may be lived in the life of the one who petitions God for forgiveness and help to do His will.

God does not expect ANYONE to live a life of sin.   Jesus didn't die on the cross so that sin and wickedness may thrive upon the earth.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LICENSE TO SIN.

Do you want to continue to sin and discover what God's opinion of it is these days?   I beg you in the name of Jesus Christ not to be so foolish.

It is of interest to me that you so eagerly embrace sin.   Why?

that's me, hollering from the choir loft....

[choir loft]

4 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

If you were hollering FOR the word, that would be something; but it is a waste of time to be hollering against what is clearly written. Did Jesus or did he NOT say that the days of GT coming up after the abomination would be worse than any previous time ever?

Right, it WAS the most dreadful time, but Jesus said a WORSE time is coming.  You can ignore His words if you choose, but I would not recommend it. 

NO ONE here is "hoping" for days of GT - but they are in the word of God and are as sure to come as day follows night and night follows day.

 

The holocaust was a terrible time.   Europe was burned to the ground in those days.

Your constant hope and cry for MORE Jewish blood to be shed shall surely fall upon your own head.  Beware of the false doctrine you hold so dear.  

As for me and my house, we pray for the safety and life and flourishing of the State of Israel and all Jewish folk.

May those who hope and pray for shedding innocent Jewish blood be carried away by the curses they enjoy to utter.

Not only is it false doctrine to teach that MORE Jewish blood be shed, for every the Nazi did it in their time, but it is a stain upon the organized church to look forward to such a gastly thing.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

[childoftheking]

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

One thing I hope we can agree on: when the Holy Spirit caused John to write, He had ONE meaning for each verse, not a hundred different ones! But if we lined up a hundred preachers we might get 100 different opinions! 

 

 

 

This statement here is what concerns me the most.   The Book of Revelations was not written to cater to currents times (96 A.D.).   Even the Asia Minor churches in Chapters 2/3, were representations of the spiritual issues Paul had with them, and then later, Yeshua describes them to John in a prophetic future sense.  Which we now understand as Dispensations.   And obviously, we are in the very last one, Laodecia.

 

Just like the Woman dressed in the sun, with the moon as her shoes, and the 12 stars representing the 12 Tribes of Israel matches the dream Joseph had before his 11 brothers sold him into slavery.   And then we find this woman in Chapter 12 pregnant (so she is in labor pains) like Paul describes in 1 Thess verse 5.   And we see the Dragon being cast out with 1/3 like we see in Daniel 12:1.   And then this Dragon tries to attack this pregnant Woman to kill the child, which is Yeshua.   And we can align Revelations 12 with Daniel concerning who stops Daily Sacrifice, which this is when the Jews understand this entity calling itself God is not their Messiah.   This causes a war and where we find 1/3 of the Jews escaping into Petra because the way to Petra is narrow enough for 1 person and the Dragon is too big to follow the escaping Jews.

 

And since we know the Temple has yet to be rebuilt, Revelations 12 and daniel 12 are future events still to come.   So, they are prophetic, even if they also represent like examples of what already took place.

[childoftheking]

13 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Wrath clearly is Armageddon and Final Judgement!!  No, Wrath is the ENTIRE 70th week plus Armageddon.

Like I already mentioned, you are going with that Israel became a legal Nation in May, 1948.   There are 3 specifics given in Daniel (40 weeks, 70 weeks, 120 weeks).   That gives us the years 1988 (which there was a Book called 88 reason God returns in 1988)(obviously god did not return in 1988).   Then we have the year 2018, specifically, May of 2018.   Israel celebrated its 70th year Anniversary.   The one thing that DID NOT HAPPEN, was the return of Yeshua.   Which then makes, if Daniel's 70th week followed the Nation of Israel being legal and recognized as a Nation in 1948, that means we are in the SECOND YEAR of Tribulation.   Which means, since Yeshua did not return, Daniel's 70th week is not Pre-Trib!!

 

So explain, if Daniel's prophecy was for this time period, and 70 + 1948 = 2018, specifically, May 2018...and today marks ONE YEAR from May 2018, how come there was no Pre-Trib Second coming?

[Last Daze]

14 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I thought I asked you before: WHAT exactly are you watching for? I have made myself clear: I am watching for HIS coming FOR His saints, pretrib. 

And I've told you the answer before.  I am looking for His return.  I just realize that there will be great tribulation first.  It's analogous to a pregnant woman who is looking forward to the delivery of her child.  She's well aware that birth pangs come first.  Does she look forward to the birth pangs?  No.  It's just part of the process.  And if you ask me this again next week, I'll give you the same answer.

Being on the alert has to do with staying awake.  Staying awake has to do with resisting the seduction of Babylon, staying separate from the world.  One's eschatology is of no value to them if they have fallen asleep.

So, I echo what Jesus exhorted and encourage you and all believers to stay awake.  That's priority one.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Last Daze said:

And I've told you the answer before.  I am looking for His return.  I just realize that there will be great tribulation first.  It's analogous to a pregnant woman who is looking forward to the delivery of her child.  She's well aware that birth pangs come first.  Does she look forward to the birth pangs?  No.  It's just part of the process.  And if you ask me this again next week, I'll give you the same answer.

Being on the alert has to do with staying awake.  Staying awake has to do with resisting the seduction of Babylon, staying separate from the world.  One's eschatology is of no value to them if they have fallen asleep.

So, I echo what Jesus exhorted and encourage you and all believers to stay awake.  That's priority one.

If you truly believe the days of GT will come first, then I submit you will EXPECT to see those days first before you expect to see His coming.  Yet, the bible tells us He is coming for those who EXPECT Him.  Did you not notice that in the parable of the virgins, they were ALL sleeping, yet half of them went into the wedding.  All I can say is, I hope this works out for you.

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, childoftheking said:

Like I already mentioned, you are going with that Israel became a legal Nation in May, 1948.   There are 3 specifics given in Daniel (40 weeks, 70 weeks, 120 weeks).   That gives us the years 1988 (which there was a Book called 88 reason God returns in 1988)(obviously god did not return in 1988).   Then we have the year 2018, specifically, May of 2018.   Israel celebrated its 70th year Anniversary.   The one thing that DID NOT HAPPEN, was the return of Yeshua.   Which then makes, if Daniel's 70th week followed the Nation of Israel being legal and recognized as a Nation in 1948, that means we are in the SECOND YEAR of Tribulation.   Which means, since Yeshua did not return, Daniel's 70th week is not Pre-Trib!!

So explain, if Daniel's prophecy was for this time period, and 70 + 1948 = 2018, specifically, May 2018...and today marks ONE YEAR from May 2018, how come there was no Pre-Trib Second coming?

You are missing something! God never had any writer write that 70 years after Israel became a nation, He would return. It is just not there. That is human reasoning or people with poor reading skills.  Obviously the guy that wrote the 88 reasons missed it, as SO MANY before him. All this means NOTHING like you imagine it means. 

³² Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

³³ So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

³⁴ Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

What does He say? "This generation will not pass..." In other words, if there is ONE PERSON LEFT that saw Israel become a nation, when Jesus returns, He would not have gone against this verse. But this is supposing that the intent of the Author is that Israel becoming a nation is the budding of the fig tree. I just could be - but it could have a different meaning. Luke says "and all the trees." That could mean all the other nations - but it could mean, when trees begin to bud, we know summer is close.

There were some people during Obama's term as president that said we were in the first year,, they the second year, etc. By now they are all hiding, embarrassed. 

How can anyone know that the "tribulation" or 70th week has started? It is SO EASY: when the trumpet judgments begin, anyone that reads and understands John's chronology will know.  Anyone can know it is ABOUT to start: when the rapture takes half the people off this planet, all should know that the 70th week is about to start.  People make this much more difficult than it really is, with human reasoning. 

Can we know if we are CLOSE?  I think so. As every year goes by, there are less and less of the generation that saw Israel become a nation still alive.  We have seen an extra-ordinary number of blood moons and other signs in the sky. We have seen the world seem to go crazy. There can be no doubt we are in the last days.

[choir loft]

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

If you were hollering FOR the word, that would be something; but it is a waste of time to be hollering against what is clearly written. Did Jesus or did he NOT say that the days of GT coming up after the abomination would be worse than any previous time ever?

Right, it WAS the most dreadful time, but Jesus said a WORSE time is coming.  You can ignore His words if you choose, but I would not recommend it. 

NO ONE here is "hoping" for days of GT - but they are in the word of God and are as sure to come as day follows night and night follows day.

Your argument is over a question of timing.

Biblical prophecy is not a step by step road map to the future.  It is a revelation of God's intent upon the world and the families of man for the purpose of redemption.  Revelation is made so that man will know God intended certain things to come upon the earth - and why.  They are fuzzy on purpose so that man may not extrapolate his own interpretations too much - and interfere with God's work which He Himself is more than able to accomplish.

Those who buy into buzz words and religious slogans instead of a deep understanding of these predictions fall into error and misjudgment.  Case in point is Ezekiel 37.   (* dry bones and two sticks) Many now deny these twin prophecies of God's Holy Word and accept anti-semitic religious slogans instead.

Jesus predicted the destruction of the temple as well as His own life.  Both happened even as He said it would.  Jesus did NOT say there would be TWO periods of holocaust.  He said there would be ONE.  It is YOU who have expressed hope for another holocaust.   Shame upon you for your bloodthirsty words.

Your interpretation of religious slogans, not Biblical prophecy,  does that.  Beware of buzz words that lead away from God's will.  Beware of religious slogans that lead to hatred and demonic action instead of the love of God and God's chosen people.

Gott mit uns

The above is an example of a religious slogan used for political as well as religious deception.  It is a German phrase which is literally translated as, "God is with us."  It was popularized by Nazi propaganda even as Germans plotted the death of Jews.  You may note that Americans often quote the same phrase ("God bless America") even as they invade countries that have not threatened us - even as it lies to us about its intentions and purposes.  We are as misguided as the Germans before us.

I am not ignoring Jesus words, but I fear you are putting words into His mouth that He did not intend.

I REFUSE TO ACCEPT THE IDEA OF A SECOND HOLOCAUST.

So should you - the reader.  It is not not Biblically accurate (one, not two such events).  The Bible does NOT predict two mass murders of Jews.   Only Jew haters long for that future time.  Only those who love mass murder of innocent men women and children look forward to a hideous time of more Jewish bloodshed.  Only Nazis masquerading as Christians wish for such a thing to happen AGAIN.

It is not evidence of Christian love.  It is NOT evident of God's continuing love of Israel......or gentiles who also died in those terrible years.   Conservative estimates are 60 million dead and a total wrecked civilization.   YOU WISH FOR MORE?   Are you so filled with hatred and love of violence that you cannot see the wickedness of this point of view?  It is a doctrine of madmen filled with hatred of Jews and gentiles.    Must the gospel be advanced by means of bloodshed on an industrial scale - AGAIN?  May God forbid it. 

Think about what you are defending.   

Why do Christians act as though it's a crime to be born a Jew?  

Why do you hate Jews so much that you want them all to die before Christ returns to a devastated world?

There will NOT be a second holocaust.   It has already happened even as Jesus predicted - there was never so violent or destructive time in all of human history as those events of the mid-twentieth century.    More Christians died for their faith in those years than any other time in history.  Do you wish for Christian bloodshed as well?  Are you so enraged by your slogans that you care nothing for innocent gentiles as well as Jews?  The Bible says, "to the Jew first, then the gentile." (Romans 2:10)  Mass murder DID happen - even according to Biblical prophecy.  

DO NOT hope for more, for it may be that you and your entire family be caught up in it.    Do you want that to happen?  I pray you do not.  I pray you see the truth and live.   I pray you cease wishing for Jewish bloodshed.

God bless the State of Israel.  May He grant peace to Jerusalem (the inheritance of peace unto Jews).

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

(*) Ezekiel 37 contains twin prophecies about the modern State of Israel.  

First is that the dead Hebrew civilization would be resurrected even unto its original land - Eretz Israel.  

Second is that ALL the tribes, even the scattered northern tribes, would be GATHERED together in the land (Eretz) Israel.  

This GATHERING is falsely assumed to be of gentiles, when it specifically refers to Israel - called Aliyah.  Aliyah is the basic principle of modern Zionism, not heretical Christian replacement theology.  All Biblical prophecy centers upon the State of Israel.  All other issues are peripheral in nature. 

Edited May 1, 2019 by choir loft