OSAS is the result of the finished work of the cross

[Blood Bought 1953]

21 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

When do you ever post scriptures?

 

Geesh, Butero.....give me some time.....I DO have a life outside of Worthy.I am getting way behind and am a bit overwhelmed . Have pity on a poor old one- fingered typist. I can refute anything you bring up . But why? You do not respond to my posts either.Where is your answer to Jesus said nothing in the future could cause Him to lose you?  I have already answered most of you inquiries  in the past. I try to go through your stuff and glean out of it something that could be answered that will benefit those that have not yet been ruined by adding Law to Grace.I would use the word “ legalism” but we have been informed that the word doesn’t exist.Yeah, right.

So please do not confuse slow or non- existent responses to be a sign of failure to refute your false allegations.Sometimes it gets boring shooting fish in a barrel and on top of my many others sins , at times I am just lazy.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Blood Bought 1953

[George]

Don't ya'll get tired of it?  LOL!  I had to remove a handful of posts from this thread -- just because they are simply not part of the topic and borderline getting personal.  I'm about ready to lock the thread, because y'all probably won't stop on your own.     Both sides have made their points.  It gets to the point where it's surreal!

If you want to know where I stand since we've already done these debates a bunch of times --

Anyway, I'm starting to see that frustration is starting to set in -- and this is usually what takes place at the end of a long thread when it's getting more and more personal.    These are usually the times -- or getting close to the times threads get locked!

[wingnut-]

8 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

God knew that answer before creation. He already knew what decisions we would make, thus making us Justifed or Unjustified. Clean or unclean. A vessel of honor or a vessel of dishonor. What we think now God knew in eternity past. It is already done , we just don't know the Answer yet.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

I agree with you of course, regarding God's foreknowledge.  Since you acknowledge we are making decisions, I would take your answer to belief in free will as a yes.  As for my second question, is there any scripture that implies or says that free will is taken away from an individual?

[wingnut-]

4 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

“ never any statements to support either claim” huh? I may disagree with the man I am debating, but Butero does his best to support his claim, as do I.

 

I don't see anywhere in this thread where Butero claims he can save himself.  If you want to point out the post in which he makes this claim, I will stand corrected.  And in regards to whether or not you have endorsed people going out and sinning willfully, I haven't seen that either.  Perhaps you misunderstood what I was saying.  

[wingnut-]

6 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

“....... neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the FUTURE.......nor ANYTHING ELSE in ALL creation will be able to separate us........”

 

From Romans 8, one of my favorite passages of scripture.  One important distinction to be made in this passage, Paul is specifically addressing the elect, which begs the question, what are the qualifiers for being one of the elect?

[Michael37]

19 minutes ago, wingnut- said:

 

From Romans 8, one of my favorite passages of scripture.  One important distinction to be made in this passage, Paul is specifically addressing the elect, which begs the question, what are the qualifiers for being one of the elect?

Not apostasising, or departing from faith in Christ for salvation. I do like your choice of the word "qualifier". 

Col 2:18-19 (ESV)
(18)  Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind,
(19)  and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Michael37
Reference

[wingnut-]

4 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

1 Cor 15:53-54 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

2 Cor 5:4 For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life.

 

The confusion in regards to soul sleep, is simply mistaking what it means to be clothed.  For clarification, look to what Jesus said specifically in regards to being clothed, which clears up also what it means to be naked.

 

Luke 24:44 Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, 47 and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. 49 And behold, I am sending the promise of my Father upon you. But stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.”

 

To be clothed is to be filled with the Holy Spirit, which was the promise of the Father.  Also, refer to Jesus' comments to Nicodemus regarding what is required to enter the kingdom of heaven, one must be born again of water and Spirit.

 

John 14:26  But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

 

Ephesians 1:11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

 

God bless

[Guest Butero]

6 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

Butero ,  just keep sticking to scripture .   CALVIN was a butcher and I refuse to hear anything that man taught .

He was a stone cold killer , who did NOT KNOW GOD .    let us stick to scripture ONLY .   you making wonderful points , WHEN you USE JUST SCRIPTURE .

 

The worst people in the world can get things right at times.  I am by no means a fan of Calvin.  

[Guest Butero]

5 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

When do you ever post scriptures?

Go back a few pages.  I just posted scriptures nobody addressed.  BB did make reference to them after I said something, but didn't directly address all of them.  

[Guest Butero]

9 hours ago, Butero said:

Here is something I want you all to think about for a moment.  There are a lot of people here that seem to have this negative view of any God-given standards, and consider the mere mention of them to be legalism.  They will use verses out of context to show this, like this familiar passage from Romans 14:2-6

For one believeth that he may eat all things:  another, who is weak, eatheth herbs.  Let not him that eateth despise him which eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth:  for God hath received him.  Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth.  Yea, he shall be holden up:  for God is able to make him stand.  One man esteemeth one day above another:  another esteemeth every day alike.  Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.  He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it.  He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eatheth not, and giveth God thanks.  

Notice the kind of laws Paul is speaking of.  They are laws of separation.  They are laws to show the Jews a separate people from the unbelieving and idol worshipping gentile nations.  They no longer apply because the gospel was taken to the gentiles and many believed, so that which was common and unclean is not anymore.  Let's take this same passage in light of the way people take it out of context and insert other sins.  How about, "One believeth he may lay carnally with his neighbor's wife, another, who is weak only has sexual relations with his own wife."  Doesn't work so good does it?  How about, "One believeth that he may steal, another, who is weak only makes due with what is rightfully his."  That is because these laws that no longer apply are all dealing with laws of separation, not God's standard of holiness.  Notice what Paul says here...

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?  Be not deceived:  neither fornicators, idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

We have people in this thread testifying for all the world to see that they are filthy sinners, and this passage says the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God.  Who do we believe?  Then there is the matter of speaking against the Holy Ghost.  Unless you are a mute, this is possible.  What does Jesus say?

"And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him:  but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."  Matthew 12:32  

Who are we to believe?  The OSAS crowd that says you can do nothing to lose salvation, or Jesus that says you will never have forgiveness if you speak a word against the Holy Ghost?  Are we to believe the OSAS crowd that says the unpardonable sin is unbelief, or Jesus that says the unpardonable sin is speaking a word against the Holy Ghost?  

 

I am only quoting myself because Hebrews13:8 wanted to know where I used scriptures.  Right here, and nobody has been able to refute these points.