Off topic from: God's Sovereign Choice

[Montana Marv]

8 hours ago, Mike Mclees said:

He could be. Are you recommending that? Know ones promised tomorrow.  

I knew a mocker who went out in a jeep drinking. He died that night.  

Now if this horrible and deceitful person can come to Christ on his death bed. Is he saved?   Now your response;   "He could be"  Are you saying Christ did not accept him?  What I am saying is that any person, at anytime can come to the Lord, Are they then Saved?  Have they been redeemed, by Christ?

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Blood Bought 1953]

 

Lots of people think they are going to outsmart God .They think.... “ HaHa, I’m gonna do whatever I want and then at the last second, on my deathbed, I’ll decide to straighten up and live right and that way just be miserable for a few hours or days” These blind fools don’t understand how it works. They think they will “ get religion” and God will HAVE to save them.Well, think again,Chester. Here’s what they don’t know—- “NOBODY comes to God lest the Spirit draw him” The initiative belongs to God— not them. They will understand this later, when it us too late .

[enoob57]

Maybe we can approach this whole works based mentality this way:

2 Peter 3:10

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
KJV

God has given us insight of the most important aspect of our first begin is to end...  the works based folks are ignoring these plans of God! One must study to understand 'the works that are therein'...
What works and how they relate to eternal things. The answer in the study will cause all work reliant aspects to become foolishness in s/Spiritual matters!

Edited December 20, 2018 by enoob57

[discipler777]

29 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

Maybe we can approach this whole works based mentality this way:

2 Peter 3:10

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
KJV

God has given us insight of the most important aspect of our first begin is to end...  the works based folks are ignoring these plans of God! One must study to understand 'the works that are therein'...
What works and how they relate to eternal things. The answer in the study will cause all work reliant aspects to become foolishness in s/Spiritual matters!

.

REVELATION.22:12-17 (NKJV) = Jesus Testifies to the Churches

12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the [f]Beginning and theEnd, the First and the Last.”

14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”

17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.

.

REVELATION.21:7-8 = 7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

.

2PETER.3:1-10 is talking about the time AFTER the 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ to earth when only the saved believers who have been resurrected or raptured by God will live on a new earth together with Him for a thousand years(REV.21:1) - a new earth where Satan will be absent and the resurrected/raptured saints will have new incorruptible or non-sinful/non-evil bodies = no more sins/evil-works.(1CORINTHIANS.15:42)

In comparison, REVELATION.22:12-17 & 21:7-8 is talking about the time BEFORE the 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ when those who have committed willful sins/evil-works/law-breaking unrepentantly, including ignorant "Christians", shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone.

Again, ....... Scripture needs to be rightly divided.

.

.

Edited December 20, 2018 by discipler777

[enoob57]

11 minutes ago, discipler777 said:

.

REVELATION.22:12-17 (NKJV) = Jesus Testifies to the Churches

12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the [f]Beginning and theEnd, the First and the Last.”

14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”

17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.

.

REVELATION.21:7-8 = 7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

.

2PETER.3:1-10 is talking about the time AFTER the 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ to earth when only the saved believers who have been resurrected or raptured by God will live on a new earth together with Him for a thousand years(REV.21:1) - a new earth where Satan will be absent and the resurrected/raptured saints will have new incorruptible or non-sinful/non-evil bodies = no more sins/evil-works.(1CORINTHIANS.15:42)

In comparison, REVELATION.22:12-17 & 21:7-8 is talking about the time BEFORE the 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ when those who have committed willful sins/evil-works/law-breaking unrepentantly, including ignorant "Christians", shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone.

Again, ....... Scripture needs to be rightly divided.

.

.

no it is not... how can you convolute old and new as same?

Rev 21:1-4

21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
KJV
 

Edited December 20, 2018 by enoob57

[discipler777]

On 12/18/2018 at 6:37 PM, discipler777 said:

On 12/18/2018 at 6:07 PM, enoob57 said:

On 12/18/2018 at 6:03 PM, discipler777 said:

"may be saved", not "will be saved" or "shall be saved". If the incest-sinner did not repent, he might not have been saved. .......

MATTHEW.12:9-13 (NKJV) = 9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up anddeceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Are you in disagreement with Jesus Christ.?

 

Here is people who's works all burnt up yet note without them there is still reality of essence

1 Cor 3:15

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
KJV

.

What work was Paul referring to at 1COR.3:15.? Was he referring to willful sins or evil-works of unrighteousness and lawlessness.? 

Scripture needs to be properly divided. .......

.

1COR.3:1-9 (NKJV) = Sectarianism Is Carnal

3 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; 3 for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men? 4 For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not carnal?

Watering, Working, Warning

5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers through whom you believed, as the Lord gave to each one? 6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase. 8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor.

 9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. ...

.

1COR.6:9-11 = 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. 

But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

.

Are you in disagreement with Paul that the unrepentant and unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God or "once saved is not always saved".?

1COR.6:9 does not say "may not inherit the kingdom of God".

.

 

.

Quote

Maybe we can approach this whole works based mentality this way:

2 Peter 3:10

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
KJV

God has given us insight of the most important aspect of our first begin is to end...  the works based folks are ignoring these plans of God! One must study to understand 'the works that are therein'...
What works and how they relate to eternal things. The answer in the study will cause all work reliant aspects to become foolishness in s/Spiritual matters!

Quote

no it is not... how can you convolute old and new as same?

Rev 21:1-4

21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
KJV

2PETER.3:1-13 = God’s Promise Is Not Slack

3 Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), 2 that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior, 3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, 6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

The Day of the Lord

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

.

Yes, you have convoluted other works with unrepented willful works of evilness/sinfulness/unrighteousness/ /lawlessness/unholiness/ungodliness. 

Do you also lump Christians who are working or have worked for a living as unsaved work-based folks.? 

[enoob57]

2 minutes ago, discipler777 said:

.

2PETER.3:1-13 = God’s Promise Is Not Slack

3 Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), 2 that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior, 3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, 6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

The Day of the Lord

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

.

Yes, you have convoluted other works with unrepented willful works of evilness/sinfulness/unrighteousness/ /lawlessness/unholiness/ungodliness. 

Do you also lump Christians who are working or have worked for a living as unsaved work-based folks.? 

Until you learn to communicate on a forum such as this where I can have dialogue with you were at an impasse! 

[discipler777]

3 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

Until you learn to communicate on a forum such as this where I can have dialogue with you were at an impasse! 

.

Fyi, on the new earth in the Millennium with the Lord Jesus Christ, resurrected/raptured believers will not need to work for a living, ie unlike today on this old rotten earth when nearly everyone needs to slog and work for a living or to retire comfortably.

[George]

Shalom Cletus, 

I truly don't want to talk OSAS or losing salvation, but I want to point out a few passages and my views on them.

The passage is Romans 11 is talking of faith ...

Rom 11:20  That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 
Rom 11:21  For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 
Rom 11:22  Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 
Rom 11:23  And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. 
Rom 11:24  For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree. 

I believe the passage is dealing with the issue of Israel, and how they were cut off from -- unbelief and how they were restored by BELIEF and how much more a natural thing it is for God to re graft them in.  

I always wonder how it is that God says ... a place of REST is from CEASING from their own works?

Heb 4:1  Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it. 
Heb 4:2  For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened. 
Heb 4:3  For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, “As I swore in my wrath, ‘They shall not enter my rest,’” although his works were finished from the foundation of the world. 
Heb 4:4  For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.” 
Heb 4:5  And again in this passage he said, “They shall not enter my rest.” 
Heb 4:6  Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience, 
Heb 4:7  again he appoints a certain day, “Today,” saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted, “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.” 
Heb 4:8  For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on. 
Heb 4:9  So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, 
Heb 4:10  for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his. 
Heb 4:11  Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience. 

There is a place of REST for the people of God ... I believe this is a blessing from God with the absolute assurance of one's salvation!  I do believe many do not "strive to enter that rest" and fail to comprehend what that truly means ... but there is also that place where we can simply REST IN HIM!  

So my encouragement to all those who are reading ... strive and enter into that rest ... for there is a promise of rest given by God!

[George]

I believe this video would be enlightening to those who are still trying to "figure it out".