PRETERISM THE NEW FRONTIER

[Larry H]

23 hours ago, Uriah said:

Hello Larry,

I see what you are saying. Yes I also have heard of the position of Rev. being written pre 70 A.D. But it only makes that position worse. Some futurists maintain that NT writers believed that the things they spoke of would be fulfilled in that time, (yet God saw it otherwise) similar to OT prophets who didn't see two comings of Messiah or that He would suffer and be rejected. 

IMO, once again the majority is wrong, believing things that will not turn out the way they think.

Hi Uriah

Quote

Some futurists maintain that NT writers believed that the things they spoke of would be fulfilled in that time, (yet God saw it otherwise

Are the futurist suggesting.

James 5:7 "Be PATIENT, THEN, BROTHERS, UNTIL THE LORD'S COMING"

8 "be patient and stand firm, because the LORD'S COMING IS NEAR"

1 James was misguided

2 Trying to put the brothers on their toes

3 The children of God should always look for His coming like a thief in night

4 James had it right and it did it come to pass in the first century.

[Uriah]

We'll it's obvious it wasn't in the first century. But the previous verse indicates a long wait. Like perhaps till the Gospel is  is preached in all the world.

 

[Larry H]

11 hours ago, Uriah said:

We'll it's obvious it wasn't in the first century. But the previous verse indicates a long wait. Like perhaps till the Gospel is  is preached in all the world.

 

Quote

Like perhaps till the Gospel is  is preached in all the world.

According to Preterist and none preterist alike it was preached to the whole world.  I took the liberty to checked some commentaries,  and this is what I came up with. 

If Jesus wanted to refer to "the world"  as we know it,  he would have used the Greek word kosmos. Instead he used oikoumeneen which in Strong's Greek and Hebrew expanded Dictionary means specifically the Roman Empire.  oikoumene. The details are as follows.

People's New Testament This gospel of the kingdom, etc. The gospel was preached throughout the Roman empire, "the world" of the New Testament, before A. D. 70.

Adam Clarke's Commentary Matthew 24:14  "Perhaps no more is meant here than the Roman empire; for it is beyond controversy that pasan teen oikoumeneen, Luke 2:1, means no more than the whole Roman empire: as a decree for taxation or enrolment from Augustus Caesar could have no influence but in the Roman dominions; but see the note at Luke 2:1"

Barnes' Notes  Matthew 24:14 [Then shall the end come.] When this general publication of the Gospel shall have taken place, then a period shall be put to the whole Jewish economy, by the utter destruction of their city and temple.

[Then shall the end come] The end of the Jewish economy; the destruction of the temple and city.

"Jesus said, “And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come” (Matt. 24:14). The good news had been preached to all the world by the time the book of Romans and the book of Colossians were written in the first century. Romans 10:18, “Their voice (the voice of those preaching the good news) has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world”. Col. 1:23, “This…gospel…has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven”. And shortly after the good news was preached in the whole world in the first century, the end of the Old Testament world came in fiery judgment in A.D. 70, at the destruction of Christ’s enemies." David Green

[Uriah]

Ahhh, standard preterist rhetoric. Using my phone now will be back when I get my PC to stop going BSOD. (Thurs?)

[WilliamL]

On 2/11/2019 at 9:54 AM, Larry H said:

3 The children of God should always look for His coming like a thief in night

That way, even if you don't live in the body to see the time of His Coming, that expectation remains in your spirit that has passed on.

So that when "every eye sees Him" at His Coming, including the eyes of the spirits of the dead, those dead will be fully prepared; just as those living at that time need to be.

Thus the belief in the Lord's immanent return, taught by the many of the disciples, though based on a misunderstanding, bears fruit.

[Uriah]

Hopefully this thing won't crash. ...So then the "world" is now the Roman world by analysis. Could we say, for God so loved the "Roman world"...? Not!

So yes, Every would have to SEE him as stated. But alas, the preterist doctrine disallows it. I don't see why we should cling to such a belief that denies literal fulfillment of prophecies. 

[Larry H]

19 hours ago, WilliamL said:

That way, even if you don't live in the body to see the time of His Coming, that expectation remains in your spirit that has passed on.

So that when "every eye sees Him" at His Coming, including the eyes of the spirits of the dead, those dead will be fully prepared; just as those living at that time need to be.

Thus the belief in the Lord's immanent return, taught by the many of the disciples, though based on a misunderstanding, bears fruit.

Perhaps it is something  Jesus said concerning His second visitation that made the disciples misunderstand the imminent timing of it ? 

" I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes"

"For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.  I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

" Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

[Uriah]

54 minutes ago, Larry H said:

 

54 minutes ago, Larry H said:

" I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes"

"For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.  I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

" Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

Sooo, when did it happen? 

[Larry H]

On 2/13/2019 at 5:43 PM, Uriah said:

Hopefully this thing won't crash. ...So then the "world" is now the Roman world by analysis. Could we say, for God so loved the "Roman world"...? Not!

So yes, Every would have to SEE him as stated. But alas, the preterist doctrine disallows it. I don't see why we should cling to such a belief that denies literal fulfillment of prophecies. 

So then the "world" is now the Roman world by analysis.

Yes in Matthew 24:14 Not in John 3:16

Good your computer is fixed.

The following  SOUNDS LIKE GREED TO ME ALSO, ☺️ But it shows  the difference between the two verses in question.

 Note that in John 3:16 the Greek word is kosmos  "the inhabited earth" , In Matthew 24:14 the Greek word  oikoumene "specifically, the Roman empire" 

I believe it will become clear in the next verse.

Luke 2:1 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed. KJV

Luke 2:1 In those days Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman world. NIV

"Two thousand years ago, at the dawn of the first century, the world was ruled by Rome" 

[Uriah]

10 hours ago, Larry H said:

So then the "world" is now the Roman world by analysis.

Yes in Matthew 24:14 Not in John 3:16

Good your computer is fixed.

The following  SOUNDS LIKE GREED TO ME ALSO, ☺️ But it shows  the difference between the two verses in question.

 Note that in John 3:16 the Greek word is kosmos  "the inhabited earth" , In Matthew 24:14 the Greek word  oikoumene "specifically, the Roman empire" 

I believe it will become clear in the next verse.

Luke 2:1 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed. KJV

Luke 2:1 In those days Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman world. NIV

"Two thousand years ago, at the dawn of the first century, the world was ruled by Rome" 

Man, you really wanted to go there?------oi-kü-me'-nā  

 

1. the inhabited earth

   1. the portion of the earth inhabited by the Greeks, in distinction from the lands of the barbarians

   2. the Roman empire, all the subjects of the empire

   3. the whole inhabited earth, the world

   4. the inhabitants of the earth, men

2. the universe, the world

Good thing the disciples were packing their  Greek concordances.

How about Rev 12:9- And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: ^G3625 he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

At least the rest of the planet never got deceived by Satan, eh?  But seriously, the same word is used elsewhere  as you can see with the context dictating the usage.

Of all people, you should understand the audience relevance thing here. 

So I ask again, WHEN did Jesus return?