There are two different horse Riders of Revelation.

[Spock]

Just now, R. Hartono said:

Jesus ministry has begun about 50 years before apostle saw the vision of this horse at Patmos island. Why would God hide His ministry already began with the 1st seal ? Its no secret at all, everybody knew that already.

 

Greetings my brother,

i don’t see this as God HIDING HIS MINISTRY like you interpret.  

I see the seals as being very different from trumpets and bowls. The latter two I believe are God’s Judgment ag the world and unfortunately His Harlot people (Israel).  I do not interpret the SEALS similar in purpose to the Trumpets and Bowls. 

The SEALS are to announce...sort of like forerunners. So, I PRESENTLY believe they all happen BEFORE the time of judgment, the Day of the Lord (either 3.5 years or 7 years, still pondering this.) 

i guess that about says it for me. I’m getting tired as it is approaching 1:00 am here.

spock out

[Spock]

5 minutes ago, R. Hartono said:

There you found it.

Lol!  

Be patient grasshopper!  Let the brother explain himself first.  I’m not saying my interpretation is correct. I can see it go a different way here. I’m not saying anything yet (I don’t have anything yet) until my good friend and teacher, LAmad responds to this post. He will.....and I will bet you, he will have a GOOD response to. I know him....that brother is good! 

[Spock]

On 2/1/2019 at 6:30 AM, R. Hartono said:

There are two white horse riders in the book of Revelation, one on earth, another one is in heaven.

Lets look at the first white horse rider, what exactly he does on earth ? conquering the world :

Rev 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a BOW; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Bow without arrows is the symbol of peace making.

Daniel 8:25 ...and by peace shall destroy many

Especially the 7 years peace agreement between Israel-Arabs which has never happened since it has been prophesied

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

THE WORLD WILL BE BROUGHT TO A NEW ERA OF PEACE BECAUSE THE DEVIL WILL STOP ALL THE WARS.

1 Thessalonians 5:3- For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman.

The 1st seal opening will bring a short time of peace for the world and then the 2nd seal shall be opened and horrors will be unceasingly unleashed.

SOME PEOPLE SAY THE FIRST SEAL IS JESUS WINNING PEOPLE, Why would God hide Evangelism to nations with a seal ? Everybody knows already that Jesus win people from the start even before John received the Revelation, no need for Evangelism to be hidden with the seals. These seals are hiding secret things in the end of days.

NOW LETS LOOK AT THE 2ND WHITE HORSE RIDER IN HEAVEN, THIS IS ABOUT JESUS CHRIST WITH ALL THE CHARACTERS NOT FOUND AT THE FIRST HORSE.

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King of Kings, and Lord of Lords.

THIS HORSE IS OBVIOUSLY JESUS READY TO GO TO ARMAGEDDON BATTLE WITH THIS SAINTS AFTER THE MARRIAGE FEAST OF THE LAMB.

Rev 19: 7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

 

Great thread brother. This to me is sooooooo important to unlock the book of Revelation. Thanks for starting this.

spock

[Marilyn C]

On ‎2‎/‎1‎/‎2019 at 10:00 PM, R. Hartono said:

There are two white horse riders in the book of Revelation, one on earth, another one is in heaven.

Lets look at the first white horse rider, what exactly he does on earth ? conquering the world :

Rev 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a BOW; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

 

Hi R. Hartono,

I believe the 4 horsemen represent the 4 Great Federations of our time. Three have emerged in that order and the final one in the tribulation. The prophets of Zechariah and Daniel were also given visions of these 4 great Federations, or Super Powers. Zechariah saw them as chariots going forth in judgments. When He asked the angel who they were, the angel said they were `the 4 spirits of heaven who go out from their station before the Lord of all the earth.` (Zech. 6: 5) 

When Daniel had his vision of the 4 great powers he saw the 4 winds/spirits (same Heb. word) stirring up the Great Sea and 4 great beasts came up in order. (Dan. 7)

So looking at Daniel`s description and John`s vision we see similarities.

REVELATION 6: 2 - 6

1.White Horse

Only one crowned - Monarchy.

Conquering to conquer - Imperialistic.

2.Red Horse

Take away peace

Given an executioner sword

3.Black Horse

Pair of balances (scales) Measurement of produce -

denoting a market economy.

 

By comparison Daniel 7: 4 - 6

1.Lion

British Monarchy, Imperialistic.

2. Bear

Soviet Communists Red - Red flag - Red Army

History of wars, confrontation and invasions.

K.G.B. executions in prisons and concentration camps estimated 40 million people.

 

3.Leopard

Europe Economic market

 

If there is discussion I will do the 4th horseman.

Marilyn.

 

[iamlamad]

9 hours ago, Spock said:

LA,

Now chapter 4 comes right after chapter 3, right? And in chapters 2 and 3 John was talking about the things THAT ARE, which is the present, right?  Do,we agree so far? 

4:1 says “AFTER THESE THINGS......”.  Is it possible john is moving us from the PRESENT (ch 2-3) to the FUTURE (ch 4-22)?   Therefore, chapters 4 and 5 are really in the future? 

Thanks,

spock

"After these things" is a transitional phrase John used several times. No one attaches any special significance on the other uses - only this one. Here John uses it as a transition  from Jesus giving him message to write to each church - to him being called up to heaven. That is all it means. It was 95 AD in chapter 3, and it was 95 AD in chapter 4. The only difference, in chapter 4, God wants John in heaven  to show him things that come upon the earth after his present time of 95 AD. Here is how many people read that verse:

4 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee [ONLY] things which must be hereafter.

 

The problem is, John did not write "only." If God had shown John TWO events ("things" is plural) of the future, and finished the book with mana recipes, He would not have disobeyed this verse.  In other words, from this point on, God CAN show John things that are past, present AND future. 

Next, this is human reasoning. We have to go by the CONTENT of chapters 4 & 5, not human reasoning.  Have you read how god taught me these two chapters?

[iamlamad]

8 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi R. Hartono,

I believe the 4 horsemen represent the 4 Great Federations of our time. Three have emerged in that order and the final one in the tribulation. The prophets of Zechariah and Daniel were also given visions of these 4 great Federations, or Super Powers. Zechariah saw them as chariots going forth in judgments. When He asked the angel who they were, the angel said they were `the 4 spirits of heaven who go out from their station before the Lord of all the earth.` (Zech. 6: 5) 

When Daniel had his vision of the 4 great powers he saw the 4 winds/spirits (same Heb. word) stirring up the Great Sea and 4 great beasts came up in order. (Dan. 7)

So looking at Daniel`s description and John`s vision we see similarities.

REVELATION 6: 2 - 6

1.White Horse

Only one crowned - Monarchy.

Conquering to conquer - Imperialistic.

2.Red Horse

Take away peace

Given an executioner sword

3.Black Horse

Pair of balances (scales) Measurement of produce -

denoting a market economy.

 

By comparison Daniel 7: 4 - 6

1.Lion

British Monarchy, Imperialistic.

2. Bear

Soviet Communists Red - Red flag - Red Army

History of wars, confrontation and invasions.

K.G.B. executions in prisons and concentration camps estimated 40 million people.

 

3.Leopard

Europe Economic market

 

If there is discussion I will do the 4th horseman.

Marilyn.

 

You are pulling them out of their first century context. anyone came make the bible say most anything of they are willing to ignore context.

[iamlamad]

8 hours ago, Spock said:

Great thread brother. This to me is sooooooo important to unlock the book of Revelation. Thanks for starting this.

spock

Do YOU see the seals as "hiding" anything? I don't. They are sealing the book so NO ONE can get it opened except one who qualifies - probably written on the outside.  I am convinced this book was done in the great courtroom of heaven: a contract between God and the devil. The devil wanted to KEEP his position as the spiritual leader of this world. He wanted it to be impossible for ANYONE to qualify to open the seals.

[iamlamad]

9 hours ago, Spock said:

Greetings my brother,

i don’t see this as God HIDING HIS MINISTRY like you interpret.  

I see the seals as being very different from trumpets and bowls. The latter two I believe are God’s Judgment ag the world and unfortunately His Harlot people (Israel).  I do not interpret the SEALS similar in purpose to the Trumpets and Bowls. 

The SEALS are to announce...sort of like forerunners. So, I PRESENTLY believe they all happen BEFORE the time of judgment, the Day of the Lord (either 3.5 years or 7 years, still pondering this.) 

i guess that about says it for me. I’m getting tired as it is approaching 1:00 am here.

spock out

The seals are to keep ANYONE except one qualified from breaking the seals and getting the book open, which will end Satan's reign as god of this world. You can BET Satan had something to say about who would be qualified! 

Do you get this? If no one ever was qualified, then God could NOT have given the great commission! No seals would be opened, so no trumpets could ever sound, and Satan would remain the god of this world. The church would not exist.  See why John wept? He KNEW how important it was to get the seals opened.

[iamlamad]

9 hours ago, Spock said:

Lol!  

Be patient grasshopper!  Let the brother explain himself first.  I’m not saying my interpretation is correct. I can see it go a different way here. I’m not saying anything yet (I don’t have anything yet) until my good friend and teacher, LAmad responds to this post. He will.....and I will bet you, he will have a GOOD response to. I know him....that brother is good! 

Thanks! 

[iamlamad]

9 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Jesus ministry has begun about 50 years before apostle John saw the vision of this horse at Patmos island. Why would God hide His ministry already began with the 1st seal ? Its no secret at all, everybody knew that already.

 

Sorry, but you just have the wrong idea here.  God wanted to show John the book  - that book in the Father's right hand  -that book that when opened would end up ENDING Satan's reign as god of this world.  God CHOSE To show John the book while it was still in our Father's hand.  I think God had that right. That book WAS in Father's hands - UNTIL Jesus ascended back into the  throne room and took it from our Father. Jesus just chose to show John some background - a time BEFORE Jesus ascended. He CHOSE to show John that a search had been ONGOING to find someone qualified to take the book and open the seals. He showed John a  search that ended in failure. Now, why would God do such a thing: show John a failed search? Why? It shows TIMING.