Mid Trib rapture anyone?

[Spock]

3 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Spock,

You said (to Rev. Man)

We could say that at the end of the 1,260 days Jesus returns. At the end of the 1,290 days, Jesus’ government is officially installed. At the end of the 1,335 days the nations are judged (Matthew 25:31-46).

To me where to put the 1290 event is not as clear as the 1335 event.  The way I visualize the second coming, is that Yeshua returns after 1260 from the mid point of the week.....I am not 100% sure the AOD has to be at that midpoint. I think it is, but I’m going to say I’m not 100% sure and will look at it again. I then believe there will be a lot going on from the day Yeshua returns until the Millennial Kingdom is set up. For example, I believe the sheep and goats Judgment of Matt 25:31 will take place during this period and I know that may take some time.  Thus, I see it makes sense to add the days AFTER the Lord returns in order to accomplish the many tasks at hand.  After all, the survivors of the planet will still not know what is going on and the MK clearly can’t begin until we know who made the cut and who didn’t. That will take time.....thus the 45 days.

Hi Spock,

I agree with some of your thinking there, bro. Let`s do the diagram.

 

......I.............................................I............I..............I...>                                                                                                                                  .      .A/D                     (1,260 days)                        30               45

 

1,260 days Jesus returns. (as you said) (Rev. 13: 5) deals with the world`s armies outside Jerusalem, (Joel 3: 2) & judges nations, (Matt. 25: 31 - 46)

This will be done very quickly as people are all over the earth. The Lord is omniscient, (all knowing) and judges their hearts, - one taken in judgment and one is left to go into the millennium.(Luke 17: 34 - 36)

1,290 cleansing of the temple. (Dan. 12: 11)

1, 335 `Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the 1,335 days.` (Dan. 12: 12) This will be the most blessed, happy time for Israel to celebrate their deliverance by their Messiah. That day is celebrated every year in Israel as the Feast of Purim. The time when Israel was delivered from their enemies. However at the 1,335 days it will be the fulfilment of their final deliverance. In Jerusalem it is celebrated on the 15th of Adar, and the second Adar (every three years)  is the most blessed time.

 

.....I.......................................................I...................I................I.........15th.........> Millennium

   A/D                   1,260 days                    30 (1,290)     30 (Adar 1)  15th of Adar 2.  (1,335)

 

Thus we have a specific date! from which all the others can be taken. (We are not in darkness that this day should overtake us as a thief. A fact which you mentioned earlier). 

 

Enjoying the discussion, Marilyn.

Greetings Marilyn,

your timeline and explanation does make sense to me much more than RM. I know RM was disappointed that I wasn’t getting it, but I tried to understand his position......just couldn’t cross that line to be where he is on this one. 

Maybe he will have a rebuttal for what you said.....maybe. I hope he does.

spock

[DonkeySpeaksAgain]

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

So, this impostor is able to convince 1/3 of the left-behind church to turn away from the right path and follow him.   No, no one at this time will know who the Antichrist Beast is, because he will not be revealed until the midpoint of the week.

Mountains in prophecy represent churches or belief systems. No, here it is REAL mountains with holes and caves. People are scared out of their wits because they know THE DAY has started - or is about to start. Read Isaiah 2. 

This ties in with Rev 12 and these things are tied together in Isa 13:1-11 and Luke 24:25. Notice the "multitude being called out of every nation" and the "birth pangs" (both tied to the rapture)  Why not just take this literal and know that God controls the lights in the sky? AGain, at this time the rapture is HISTORY. This is inside the 70th week  - you know, that 7 year period you have shortened to 3.5 years!

after the 'war in heaven' which is kicked off by the rapture.   Sorry, but you have TOTALLY misplaced Paul's rapture: it must come BEFORE the wrath of God. His wrath starts before any trumpet or with the first trumpet. The rapture therefore is BEFORE any trumpet judgment. Why not just believe Paul? The rapture is between the 5th and 6th seals.

Now, the next three trumpets are attached to the 3 "woes". This is the start of the 3.5 year tribulation   Wrong again. The DAY of the Lord will begin with the 6th seal, and the 70th week (yes, the entire week) will begin with the 7th seal. The entire week is marked by 7's. Believe it: it is truth.

The start of the A/C reign will coincide with a period of 5 months were no one will die (except maybe by beheading?). Where do you come up with this stuff? John does not get introduced to the Antichrist Beast until chapter 13, AFTER the man of sin will have entered the temple and declared he is GOD - which will stop the daily sacrifices and divide the week.  All John is telling us is that these flying beasties are not allowed to kill people, just torture them. The "reign" of the Antichrist will  not begin until after he is revealed - after the midpoint of the week. Your theory falls apart because you don't have a week in your theory. Sorry, John DOES.

The final trumpet/3rd woe merely states that all will be finished "in the days of" this last trumpet.   What is this "mystery that is finished at the 7th trumpet? It is the reign of satan as the spiritual ruler of this earth. Adam's 6000 year lease ENDS. Suddenly Satan has no more legal hold to earth.

Chapter 11 then reverts back to the start of the 3.5 years again with a new vision of the rapture (temple in heaven being measured) as a time stamped introduction to the two witnesses. They are killed at the end of the 3.5 years and the third woe/7th trumpet follows very quickly. That does NOT mean weeks or months. Sorry, but this is nonsense. Chapter 11 begins just before the midpoint of the week. (Since you don't have a week, your theory fails.) What is verses 1 & 2 all about? It is the man of sin entering Jerusalem with his armies. In a few days he will enter the temple, so he must first ARRIVE in Jerusalem. His Gentile armies will trample the city for 42 real 30 days months. OF COURSE it means months: the last half of the week. 

You have a chance to learn, or reject. The choice is yours to make. 

Believe this, it is truth! 

Mountains...

Jeremiah 3:23

Truly in vain is salvation hoped for from the hills, and from the multitude of mountains: truly in the Lord our God is the salvation of Israel.

 

Jeremiah 4:24

I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

 

Jeremiah 9:10

For the mountains will I take up a weeping and wailing, and for the habitations of the wilderness a lamentation, because they are burned up, so that none can pass through them; neither can men hear the voice of the cattle; both the fowl of the heavens and the beast are fled; they are gone.

 

Jeremiah 17:3

O my mountain in the field, I will give thy substance and all thy treasures to the spoil, and thy high places for sin, throughout all thy borders.

 

Jeremiah 26:18

Micah the Morasthite prophesied in the days of Hezekiah king of Judah, and spake to all the people of Judah, saying, Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Zion shall be plowed like a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the house as the high places of a forest.

 

Jeremiah 31:23

Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; As yet they shall use this speech in the land of Judah and in the cities thereof, when I shall bring again their captivity; The Lord bless thee, O habitation of justice, and mountain of holiness.

 

Jeremiah 50:6

My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.

 

Jeremiah 51:25

Behold, I am against thee, O destroying mountain, saith the Lord, which destroyest all the earth: and I will stretch out mine hand upon thee, and roll thee down from the rocks, and will make thee a burnt mountain.

 

Psalm 30:7

Lord, by thy favour thou hast made my mountain to stand strong: thou didst hide thy face, and I was troubled.

 

Psalm 48:1

Great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised in the city of our God, in the mountain of his holiness.

 

Psalm 72:3

The mountains shall bring peace to the people, and the little hills, by righteousness.

 

Psalm 78:54

And he brought them to the border of his sanctuary, even to this mountain, which his right hand had purchased.

 

Psalm 87:1

His foundation is in the holy mountains.

 

Psalm 114:4

The mountains skipped like rams, and the little hills like lambs.

 

Daniel 2:35

Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

 

Daniel 9:16

O Lord, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain

 

Isaiah 2:2

And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

 

Isaiah 2:3

And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob

 

Zechariah 4:7

Who art thou, O great mountain?

 

Zechariah 6:1

And I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came four chariots out from between two mountains; and the mountains were mountains of brass.

Zechariah 8:3

Thus saith the Lord; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the Lord of hosts the holy mountain.

 

Ezekiel 6:3

And say, Ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord God; Thus saith the Lord God to the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys; Behold, I, even I, will bring a sword upon you, and I will destroy your high places.

 

 

[OneLight]

5 hours ago, simplejeff said:

Yet there is not one place in Scripture like this,  where the spirit or the soul of someone is floating as if in ether/ whatever/ apart from their body,  whether earthly or dead or resurrected.

I gave scripture that stated "We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord."  2 Corinthians 5:8

[DonkeySpeaksAgain]

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I don't think the entire planet is what is being talked about.  I agree, I think it was a REAL earthquake. It is the begining of God destroying the earth. Did you not read?

Isaiah 13:9

Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

 

God's purpose in THE DAY is to destroy the earth. The trumpets start with 1/3 destruction, but the vials are 100%.

 

God's dead as in those "in Christ" have already risen and at the first trumpet are in heaven. 

Sorry, but God does not destroy the earth before the Millennium. That comes after it - you know... new heaven, new earth.

The tribulation is about judging the people. 

Regarding Rev 8:3-5 immediately before the trumpets are sounded ... what does it mean?

Rev 8: 

And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

⁴ And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

⁵ And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

[simplejeff]

(2 posts back) seems to me to be using or trying to use that  Scripture by saying it means something that is not in harmony with all Scripture .   But certainly not wittingly nor willingly, we hope, then ?  

Instead,  without explanation needed nor helpful at this time,   I choose not to use that explanation which would if used be opposed and contradictory to other Scripture.  

The already 'famous' pick a Scripture to defend an idea,  I don't like.    Instead, learn what is simply true in harmony with all Scripture, with no contradiction at all.

This does get around to uncovering some long standing , so-called,  sacred(not holy; but as someone noted recently 'sacred cows')  doctrines , sometimes,  and so is not so simple as to just show it is incorrect, but

requires something much more 'delicate',  and is best left on the shelf for a while,   so people have a chance to find out themselves,  without any

sense of "giving in" ,  rather with a true 'light goes on' wonder as things unknown before become known,  with no discrepancy with Scripture.

[OneLight]

3 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

(2 posts back) seems to me to be using or trying to use that  Scripture by saying it means something that is not in harmony with all Scripture .   But certainly not wittingly nor willingly, we hope, then ?  

Instead,  without explanation needed nor helpful at this time,   I choose not to use that explanation which would if used be opposed and contradictory to other Scripture.  

The already 'famous' pick a Scripture to defend an idea,  I don't like.    Instead, learn what is simply true in harmony with all Scripture, with no contradiction at all.

This does get around to uncovering some long standing , so-called,  sacred(not holy; but as someone noted recently 'sacred cows')  doctrines , sometimes,  and so is not so simple as to just show it is incorrect, but

requires something much more 'delicate',  and is best left on the shelf for a while,   so people have a chance to find out themselves,  without any

sense of "giving in" ,  rather with a true 'light goes on' wonder as things unknown before become known,  with no discrepancy with Scripture.

Two posts back is my reply to you.  Is all this about my reply?

[Revelation Man]

On 2/27/2019 at 5:14 PM, iamlamad said:

I disagree: this verse is not in reference to "the end of these wonders:"

¹² Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

One could also make the argument that the 3 1/2 years was a rounded off answer, but the 1290 days was exact. Then again, it is possible the 3 1/2 years ends the 70th week, but Jesus does not return for another 30 days, when He finally kills the Beast and False prophet.  It seems likely that Rev. 19 could be 30 days past the 7th vial that ends the week.

Its clear to me, the Angel asks Jesus how long till the end of these wonders, which means Jesus returns to end the age of mankind living in sin. Jesus says it will be 1260 days from the time the Jews are Conquered. 

We get the same question asked by Daniel.

Dan. 12:8 Although I heard, I did not understand. Then I said, “My lord, what shall be the end of these things?”

9 And he said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10 Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.

11 “And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.

Its very clear that Daniel asks he same question the Angel asked, then Jesus relents and gives Daniel another bit of info, it will be 1290 days until these things END {Wonders End}, what is the "WONDERS" ? Well it's the Visions Daniel had about the End Times etc. etc. So it will be 1290 days from the time of the AoD until Jesus returns and 1260 days from the time the Jews are Conquered until these Wonders End. 

So what confuses people about the 1335 ? God is a very orderly God, He doesn't change patterns mid lecture !! His symbolism is always a continuous, orderly pattern. Blessed is he who waits {adheres to} and comes to the 1335. He doesn't tell us what the 1335 is per se, God just tells us it is a Blessing. If its a blessing about the very end of times, it would most certainly have to be about the Second Coming, what better blessing could there be ? But it's not about the very end, it's about the 1335 event, which has to be BEFORE the 1290 event. 

I see riddles like few others, I just have a gift for it, I was always a rated Chess player, and I solve riddles pretty easy. Prophecy is my calling. It is what it is. I don't expect people to always see what I have been shown. 

Edited March 1, 2019 by Revelation Man

[iamlamad]

21 hours ago, DonkeySpeaksAgain said:

Sorry, but God does not destroy the earth before the Millennium. That comes after it - you know... new heaven, new earth.

The tribulation is about judging the people. 

Regarding Rev 8:3-5 immediately before the trumpets are sounded ... what does it mean?

Rev 8: 

And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

⁴ And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

⁵ And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

He BEGINS the destruction in the trumpet judgments. Look, turning 1/3 of the sea to blood is destruction!  Please don't tell me you symbolize that too! I don't know WHY the angel threw coals from the fire down to earth. John does not tell us the meaning.  The first part OF COURSE has to do with the prayers of the saints. Perhaps the second part does too.

[iamlamad]

21 hours ago, DonkeySpeaksAgain said:

Believe this, it is truth! 

Mountains...

Jeremiah 3:23

Truly in vain is salvation hoped for from the hills, and from the multitude of mountains: truly in the Lord our God is the salvation of Israel.

 

Jeremiah 4:24

I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

 

Jeremiah 9:10

For the mountains will I take up a weeping and wailing, and for the habitations of the wilderness a lamentation, because they are burned up, so that none can pass through them; neither can men hear the voice of the cattle; both the fowl of the heavens and the beast are fled; they are gone.

 

Jeremiah 17:3

O my mountain in the field, I will give thy substance and all thy treasures to the spoil, and thy high places for sin, throughout all thy borders.

 

Jeremiah 26:18

Micah the Morasthite prophesied in the days of Hezekiah king of Judah, and spake to all the people of Judah, saying, Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Zion shall be plowed like a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the house as the high places of a forest.

 

Jeremiah 31:23

Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; As yet they shall use this speech in the land of Judah and in the cities thereof, when I shall bring again their captivity; The Lord bless thee, O habitation of justice, and mountain of holiness.

 

Jeremiah 50:6

My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.

 

Jeremiah 51:25

Behold, I am against thee, O destroying mountain, saith the Lord, which destroyest all the earth: and I will stretch out mine hand upon thee, and roll thee down from the rocks, and will make thee a burnt mountain.

 

Psalm 30:7

Lord, by thy favour thou hast made my mountain to stand strong: thou didst hide thy face, and I was troubled.

 

Psalm 48:1

Great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised in the city of our God, in the mountain of his holiness.

 

Psalm 72:3

The mountains shall bring peace to the people, and the little hills, by righteousness.

 

Psalm 78:54

And he brought them to the border of his sanctuary, even to this mountain, which his right hand had purchased.

 

Psalm 87:1

His foundation is in the holy mountains.

 

Psalm 114:4

The mountains skipped like rams, and the little hills like lambs.

 

Daniel 2:35

Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

 

Daniel 9:16

O Lord, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain

 

Isaiah 2:2

And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

 

Isaiah 2:3

And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob

 

Zechariah 4:7

Who art thou, O great mountain?

 

Zechariah 6:1

And I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came four chariots out from between two mountains; and the mountains were mountains of brass.

Zechariah 8:3

Thus saith the Lord; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the Lord of hosts the holy mountain.

 

Ezekiel 6:3

And say, Ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord God; Thus saith the Lord God to the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys; Behold, I, even I, will bring a sword upon you, and I will destroy your high places.

So...you are saying that God cannot write of a REAL, LITERAL mountain, because of all these scriptures? I won't put God in that box! 

¹⁷ And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

¹⁸ And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

¹⁹ And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

²⁰ And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

Note: this is a REAL earthquake and real and literal mountains.

Good job looking all these up!

Edited March 1, 2019 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

22 hours ago, Spock said:

Greetings Marilyn,

your timeline and explanation does make sense to me much more than RM. I know RM was disappointed that I wasn’t getting it, but I tried to understand his position......just couldn’t cross that line to be where he is on this one. 

Maybe he will have a rebuttal for what you said.....maybe. I hope he does.

spock

IF Jesus returned on the 1260th day, everyone would know the day! But we know NO ONE will know the day.

Back to the drawing board!

It is FAR more likely He will return on day 1290....30 days for the marriage and supper.

Edited March 1, 2019 by iamlamad