Mid Trib rapture anyone?

[Marilyn C]

31 minutes ago, Spock said:

As far as I can tell, THIRD HEAVEN is only cited one time in the NIV translation in 2 Cor 12

2 Corinthians 12:2 (NIV)
I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know--God knows.

So to be honest, I don’t know if the angels were kicked out of the third heaven or the second heaven. If you don’t mind showing me in scripture where it says the angels who follow Lucifer were kicked out of the third heaven. And while you are at it, don’t forget to show me where it says there is a VACANCY you previously mentioned. 

 

Hi Spock,

Well we know where Satan and his fallen angels are now - in the universal heaven, as Michael & his angels cast them out of there in the trib. So...Lucifer & his fallen angels, therefore came from higher up - the third heaven, the angelic realm. Where do you think the angels reside? With Satan and his fallen angels or higher up. If so then count - 1. atmospheric heaven, 2. Universe, 3. angelic realm 3d heaven.

So when Lucifer was cast out and his authority and power, his throne, in the angelic realm was taken away,  do you know of any angel given that position?

Marilyn. 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Spock,

Another thought. God made all thrones, (Col. 1: 16) including the throne that Lucifer held for a while. So when Lucifer proved unworthy to hold that position, do you think God said, "Woops, made a boo boo there, I wont let anyone else have that position, that throne ever again."

Obviously God didn`t say that, as He is omniscient, (all knowing) and foresaw that angels, even one as mighty and beautiful as Lucifer, would not be able to rule righteously except they humbled themselves under God. Lucifer was far from humble, and pride saw him fall. But God`s desire to have righteous rulership in every realm He created, will come about. It`s just that now we & the angels know, that no angel can rule there ever again.

Marilyn.   

[JC4me]

Uh...those fallen angels that were cast out of heaven now abide in the same 'holding tank' as us humans....it's called Earth...Yes....Earth itself...whether under, on the surface or in the atmosphere around it.  JESUS certainly did not try to hide the fact that satan himself abounded around Him.  Jesus spoke out loud to satan, and even acknowledge that satan was the one responsible for Peter trying to talk JESUS out of dying on the cross.  Was JESUS tempted by satan in the wilderness for 40 days or not?  Why would we need a NEW earth if this present one was not overcome by satan and his hordes of demons who followed him down as he was cast down from heaven 'as fast as lighting"? Get real, Christians...even atheists, agnostics and devil worshippers know that they can instantly get satan's attention because he is so close, walking around, as a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.  Satan cannot do that if he were trapped in some sort of atmospheric level, realm, or third heaven.

[Marilyn C]

Satan and his fallen angels have power (usurped) over the earth, however if you went to space, the universe you would still be under their sway, (if an unbeliever).God`s word tells us that in the middle of the tribulation they will get cast down to the earth. That means their power will be limited to just the earth.

`So the great dragon was cast out, that Serpent of old called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he WAS CAST OUT TO THE EARTH, and his angels with him.` (Rev. 12: 9)

Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, Spock said:

 

 

Hi Spock,

I will wait to hear from you, (tomorrow) to see if we need to discuss this important point, (re: realms & thrones) before I go on to post more.

Appreciate you listening and responding, bro.

Marilyn.

[JC4me]

You call Earth as being limited? what other planet would deem satan to deceive the inhabitants? Do you honestly believe that other human beings exist on other planets? Wouldn't that mean that there would have to be a Christmas and an Easter on all existing planets that would be hospitable for human inhabitation?  EARTH, as we know it, is the only place that GOD formed man out of the soil..GOD did not send His Son planet hopping around to the billions of other planets in billions of other galaxies to be born of a VIRGIN and be crucified over and over again...

[Marilyn C]

46 minutes ago, JC4me said:

 

You seem to have misinterpreted my comments.

[JohnD]

All three eschatological camps are correct about the one rapture (but not the way everybody thinks)...

The one rapture takes place on day 1335 of the 70th Week of Daniel (a seven year period of 2520 days)

according to Daniel 12:12.

Daniel 12:11 mentions the beginning of the Great Tribulation (1290 days from the end). 

Until this point Christians will be hunted down and destroyed (Matthew 10:21-22) for not worshiping the 

beast (false messiah) see Matthew 24:24 (the indwelling Holy Spirit being the only one that prevents this 

from happening). 

Then the events of Daniel 7 and 2Thessalonians will take place as the beast reneges on his covenant with

the world (affirming the Old Covenant [Daniel 9:27] and declaring the New Covenant a cult [Revelation 13:6]) 

and the beast reverts to his original false religion on the plains of Shinar (Babylon) [Zechariah 5:5-11].

When the Jews realize they've been had, they become the refuseniks the Christians had been and thus the hatred

of the whole world will come upon them as never before. Prompting the Armageddon campaign / scenario in the very end.

When as the last of the last of the last of resorts (for them) takes place and in their most desperate hour they cry out to 

Jesus for saving them from the whole world's attempt to utterly utterly destroy them. 

"Hosanna!"

"Hosha Nah!"

Save Now!

Yehoshua HaMoshiakh!

The rapture will take place in all three eschatological scenarios but in a different way than most understand it. 

I never understood how all three camps could quote scripture to support their views until the Spirit showed that

man has the 70th Week of Daniel itself divided all wrong. It is not one seven year tribulation but two three and a half

year tribulations.

1. The Christian's (believer's in Jesus) tribulation in the first half of the 70th Week of Daniel
2. The Great Tribulation (of the world) in the second half

The rapture will take place in the first 105 days of the Great Tribulation (day 1335 of the 2520 day 70th 

Week of Daniel) or:

PRE Great Tribulation

MID 70th Week of Daniel

POST Believer's Tribulation

____________________________________________________________________________________

This is not date setting as we are told not to set dates.  No one knows when the first day of the 70th Week takes place.

Except for the Father of course.

We will know when it began when the Temple sacrifices are abated 1290 days

from the end and will be able to back date the approximate beginning of the 70th Week of Daniel.

And the only ones who understand it all (those few Christians who survive to this point ) will be driven by then so 

far under ground they may not even be aware that the most significant event in their time before the rapture

will have taken place: when the devil incarnate claims to be God Almighty and reverts the world back to Nimrodian Bayblonianism...

 

Edited March 23, 2019 by JohnD

[Spock]

8 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Spock,

I will wait to hear from you, (tomorrow) to see if we need to discuss this important point, (re: realms & thrones) before I go on to post more.

Appreciate you listening and responding, bro.

Marilyn.

Well, knowing in Rev 12 that “the dragon saw that he was thrown down to the earth and his angels with him.....and there was no longer a place for them IN HEAVEN” so I suppose they must be above the earths atmosphere to be thrown down to earth (I assume that means both the land and atmosphere). So I guess we can infer this is the 2nd heaven.  They obviously are in some heaven today, so the 2nd heaven makes sense. 

Regarding the “throne vacancy” honestly, I have no thoughts on that one. You didn’t provide a scripture reference so I guess you just assumed there is a vacancy for that throne. I will play along for now because I’m not sure where you are going with this.

i presume you are giving me this backdrop because you are building your case to show me why the rapture must take place before the 70th week begins, right?  At least, that was the question I asked of you a while back, right?  So, when you wake up and have time, lead on dear sister. Oh, and pleasant dreams....mine were weird! 

spock

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, JohnD said:

All three eschatological camps are correct about the one rapture (but not the way everybody thinks)...

The one rapture takes place on day 1335 of the 70th Week of Daniel (a seven year period of 2520 days)

according to Daniel 12:12.

Daniel 12:11 mentions the beginning of the Great Tribulation (1290 days from the end). 

Until this point Christians will be hunted down and destroyed (Matthew 10:21-22) for not worshiping the 

beast (false messiah) see Matthew 24:24 (the indwelling Holy Spirit being the only one that prevents this 

from happening). 

Then the events of Daniel 7 and 2Thessalonians will take place as the beast reneges on his covenant with

the world (affirming the Old Covenant [Daniel 9:27] and declaring the New Covenant a cult [Revelation 13:6]) 

and the beast reverts to his original false religion on the plains of Shinar (Babylon) [Zechariah 5:5-11].

When the Jews realize they've been had, they become the refuseniks the Christians had been and thus the hatred

of the whole world will come upon them as never before. Prompting the Armageddon campaign / scenario in the very end.

When as the last of the last of the last of resorts (for them) takes place and in their most desperate hour they cry out to 

Jesus for saving them from the whole world's attempt to utterly utterly destroy them. 

"Hosanna!"

"Hosha Nah!"

Save Now!

Yehoshua HaMoshiakh!

The rapture will take place in all three eschatological scenarios but in a different way than most understand it. 

I never understood how all three camps could quote scripture to support their views until the Spirit showed that

man has the 70th Week of Daniel itself divided all wrong. It is not one seven year tribulation but two three and a half

year tribulations.

1. The Christian's (believer's in Jesus) tribulation in the first half of the 70th Week of Daniel
2. The Great Tribulation (of the world) in the second half

The rapture will take place in the first 105 days of the Great Tribulation (day 1335 of the 2520 day 70th 

Week of Daniel) or:

PRE Great Tribulation

MID 70th Week of Daniel

POST Believer's Tribulation

____________________________________________________________________________________

This is not date setting as we are told not to set dates.  No one knows when the first day of the 70th Week takes place.

Except for the Father of course.

We will know when it began when the Temple sacrifices are abated 1290 days

from the end and will be able to back date the approximate beginning of the 70th Week of Daniel.

And the only ones who understand it all (those few Christians who survive to this point ) will be driven by then so 

far under ground they may not even be aware that the most significant event in their time before the rapture

will have taken place: when the devil incarnate claims to be God Almighty and reverts the world back to Nimrodian Bayblonianism...

 

For the readers, consider this image as myth. The truth is, the rapture will take place just before the start of the Day of the Lord, which begins at the 6th seal, then the 70th week will begin with the 7th seal, and the abomination event that will divide the week will take place at the 7th trumpet. The first 6 trumpet judgments are in the first half of the week. The church is GONE. Only a remnant is left, as shown in Rev. 12. 

Note on Rev. 12:11  This is NOT a "from / to" statement. The question was asked, "how long to the END of these wonders. The start of these wonders was understood to be 12:1 - the start of the time of great trouble. Daniel was told, 1260 days - to the end. We know this to be truth from Revelation.  But Daniel still did not understand and asked again, not about the start, but about the end. 

The answer then was given again, 

The starting point would be the time the daily sacrifice is taken away WHICH WILL ALSO BE the very time the abomination is set up. Setting up the abomination will CAUSE the daily sacrifices to be taken away. 

So now the Starting point has been pinpointed. And from that starting point, a different end is given: 1290 days or 30 days LONGER than the 1260. What they can this mean? It is very simple:  the week will end at the 7th vial shown in Rev. 16, but another very important event will occur 30 days later. It may well be Christ's coming and capturing the Beast and False prophet.