Mid Trib rapture anyone?

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, simplejeff said:

http://www.bibleresearch.org/prophecybook2/b2w16.html

"THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD

"One of the most misunderstood topics of the Bible is the resurrection of the dead at the return of Christ. Most people do not even begin to comprehend the magnitude of the events that surround this climactic event or its importance in the overall plan of God for the future of humanity. The first resurrection will undoubtedly be one of the most awesome and glorious events to ever take place, and a number of cataclysmic, earthshaking events will happen the day that Jesus returns to the earth. The following are three of these major events that directly concern the elect of God:

 

    The resurrection of the righteous dead to immortality
    The change of the living righteous to immortality
    The rewarding of the righteous for diligent effort and sacrifice

Jesus Appears in The Sky

One of the first events on this day is the gathering of the elect of God to meet Jesus in the atmosphere above the earth. As Jesus enters the earth's atmosphere and lights up the sky with his glory, the angels will begin to collect the righteous of all ages:

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other" (Matt.24:29-31 KJV). See also Isa.43:5-7; Mk.13:24-27; 14:62; Rev.1:7.

The Dead Rise First

In this great day, everyone who has obtained salvation will rise to meet Jesus as he enters the atmosphere. But all of the righteous who have died over the centuries will be resurrected first and will join him even before the righteous people who are still alive at his coming:

"But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep [dead], that you sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain to the coming of the Lord shall not precede them which are asleep" (1.Thes.4:13-15 KJV). See also 1.Cor.15:51-54."

You have mixed TWO comings into one. It is not scriptural. Jesus will come FOR His bride pretrib, before God's wrath begins. He will remain hidden in a cloud. He will not touch down, but take us to the homes prepared.  He will come again WITH His bride where every eye will see Him. This coming He will indeed light up the sky. He will fight Armageddon and will touch down to remain on earth. This IS scriptural.

The website you pointed to seems to be 7th Day Adventist.

Edited February 27, 2019 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

4 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

Yet there is not one place in Scripture like this,  where the spirit or the soul of someone is floating as if in ether/ whatever/ apart from their body,  whether earthly or dead or resurrected.

Why do you make such statements when you know differently?

2 Corinthians 5:6

Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

2 Corinthians 5:8

We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

[Marilyn C]

31 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

You have mixed TWO comings into one. It is not scriptural. Jesus will come FOR His bride pretrib, before God's wrath begins. He will remain hidden in a cloud. He will not touch down, but take us to the homes prepared.  He will come again WITH His bride where every eye will see Him. This coming He will indeed light up the sky. He will fight Armageddon and will touch down to remain on earth. This IS scriptural.

Hi iamlamad,

I agree Jesus comes to the clouds for His Body and takes us to the third heaven where we will rule and reign with Him over the world systems and fallen angels. Then 7 years later Jesus will come with HIS MIGHTY ANGELS to deliver Israel and bring judgment upon the nations.

`When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and ALL THE HOLY ANGELS WITH HIM,....` (Matt. 25: 31)

Marilyn.  

[simplejeff]

10 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Why do you make such statements when you know differently?

2 Corinthians 5:6

Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

2 Corinthians 5:8

We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

 

The Scripture and the Truth is usually unknown, and often is mis-represented this way by most people who quote Scripture.  

[iamlamad]

47 minutes ago, OneLight said:

Really?  Does this mean you believe that Paradise still exists today where people go and wait?  You must also disagree with 2 Corinthians 5:7-8 where we read "For we walk by faith, not by sight.  We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord."  I believe that our spirit goes to be with the Lord until we gain our resurrected new body at the rapture. 

I agree with you and with Paul. Nothing I said here disagrees with that. I was only showing how Paul pinpointed the timing of the rapture - just before wrath.

[iamlamad]

16 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi iamlamad,

I agree Jesus comes to the clouds for His Body and takes us to the third heaven where we will rule and reign with Him over the world systems and fallen angels. Then 7 years later Jesus will come with HIS MIGHTY ANGELS to deliver Israel and bring judgment upon the nations.

`When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and ALL THE HOLY ANGELS WITH HIM,....` (Matt. 25: 31)

Marilyn.  

Great!

[iamlamad]

7 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

 

The Scripture and the Truth is usually unknown, and often is mis-represented this way by most people who quote Scripture.  

Are you saying you did not know this scripture was in the bible? Does this scripture tell us the truth: when a believer dies, his spirit with his soul goes to be with our Lord?

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, DonkeySpeaksAgain said:

1 Peter 1:21 "

Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

²² Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

²³ Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

²⁴ For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:

²⁵ But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you."

 

Isaiah 40:4 "

Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain:

⁵ And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.

⁶ The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field:

⁷ The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the Lord bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass.

⁸ The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever."

 

Psalms 90:4 

"For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

⁵ Thou carriest them away as with a flood; they are as a sleep: in the morning they are like grass which groweth up.

⁶ In the morning it flourisheth, and groweth up; in the evening it is cut down, and withereth.

⁷ For we are consumed by thine anger, and by thy wrath are we troubled."

Now all of those say our flesh (the body) is like grass. But, the Rev. verse speaks of "green" grass. The green grass is healthy and good. It may even refer to newly sprouted which is the type of grass that is tender and sought after among the animals that eat it.

There are too many "green" references to list, so just look up "green" in the concordance.

 

These things came to me after I saw that the trumpets begin with the rapture. Before, I too leaned toward the thought that it was literal, but like much of the rest of Revelation - it was the words themselves and how the Bible talks about them that convinced me to look at differently. Jesus spoke in metaphors and often used "farming" and "agriculture" terms when referencing the 'faithful' and 'unfaithful', the 'obedient' and the 'disobedient'. 

It is all the "Literal-ists" (making up words here, I think) who have used there OWN interpretation to make the prophecies fit into their line of thinking. Much of what I used to accept has been altered because of this approach. Most all of prophecy is symbolic and metaphors are used all the way through history. The idea for us then is to be as close to the original meaning for every word of prophecy. God interpreted these words for us all ready, we just have to look them up in the Bible. God NEVER changes, right? Why would anyone change the meanings of these words into something else? Yeah, I know the answer.

On the other hand, John gives us a strong hint (wormwood = Chernobyl) that the first three trumpets are talking about a nuclear exchange: WAR. A nuke would burn up all the grass and destroy some of the trees. And radiation would render water unfit to drink.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Spock,

You said -

Conclusion: So, unless you think this line of thinking has merit, please tell me why the 6th seal can’t be released at the mid point of the week, shortly before or after? I’m all ears and will respect your input.

Let`s look at Joel 3 -

`Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision! For the Day of the Lord (specific) is near in the valley of decision.

The sun and moon will grow dark and the stars will diminish their brightness.

The Lord also will roar from Zion and utter His voice from Jerusalem; the heavens and earth will shake; but the Lord will be a shelter for His people, and the strength of the children of Israel` (Joel 3: 14 - 16)

We can see that that is the same as Rev. 6: 12 - 17. The world`s armies are in the valley of Jehoshaphat outside Jerusalem, where God has brought them for judgment. Then when they have thought they had `won,` got rid of Israel, then it is that the Lord Himself who ROARS from Zion, (3^rd heaven Heb. 12: 22).

The heavens and earth shake, and the `heavens open,` (Rev.19: 11) and the Lord comes in His great power and glory, with all His holy angelic army with Him. (Rev. 19: 11 - 14,  Matt. 25: 1) He comes to judge righteously and to make war. (Rev.19:11)

Thus we see that Rev. 6, sixth seal is immediately before the Lord comes in His great power and glory. (Joel 3: 14 - 16, Rev. 6: 12 - 17,  Matt. 24: 29 & 30)

Marilyn.

 

BTW It is important to realise that the contents of the scroll are a pictorial representation of what the Father has written for His Son to execute, (the judgments). Thus the scroll is an OVERVIEW of whom the Lord will judge and gives us the 3 points of the trib, the beginning, the mid, and the end. All other details fit within that very clearly.

 

[iamlamad]

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

It' the ole Mens Traditions, its hard to see things after we have been conditioned with other ideas. But remember, this was supposed to be a riddle locked up until the End Times when Knowledge and Traveled increased. So these secrets of God, when spoken about were not meant to be understood until the very end, so God gave us a riddle of all riddles !! Only in these last days has He chosen to reveal these deep secrets, but only to those that don't allow Mens Traditions to overpower their thinking {like I used to}. To e this is simple, because I see it, no one else does, but I suspect guys called to prophecy would see it. In verse 6 and 7 we are clearly told that the End of these Wonders will be 126o days and what do you think ends these wonders ? Well of course the Second Coming in 126o days will end these wonders when Jesus shows up, I mean we know the Beast shows up at the Middle of the week {1260} so of course he is what end these wonders in a time, times and half time {1260 days}. 

So it just obvious to me, a prophecy guy, that the other two are the exact same kind of prophetic uttering's, God is perfect in his symbolism, we just are not perfectly capable of seeing that at times. If one number is a set number of days until the Second Coming ends these wonders, all three are the exact same thing. And no matter what we thought in the past, God never changed its meaning.  People actually think these are numbers that bleed over into the 1000 year reign. That is mind boggling to me how one can come to that conclusion, even when I did not understand the Prophecy, I never once though that, it just makes no sense. 

We could say that but it doesn't match what the Scriptures say, the scriptures are speaking about the Second Coming ending these wonders. In Dan. 12:8 Daniel asks the same question, what will be the end of ALL THESE THINGS, then he is told from the AoD it will be 1260 days [UNTIL ALL THESE WONDERS END]. Therefore 1335 has to be the exact same set up. 

Again, you miss the BIG PICTURE here, Dan. 7 is about the End of this Age, not the 1000 year reign. Daniel 12 starts out speaking about when these "GREATEST EVER TROUBLES" will be upon Israel, and when the Saints {Jewish Saints} will arise and stand on their lot at the end. I for the life of me can't understand why people understand the first is 1260 days to the Second Coming, but can't see the other two are the exact same thing. But it is what it is I guess. I pointed out all of the reasons why it fits, if it didn't fit the Scriptures I would have discounted it as an anomaly, but it fits everything else that I have been studying. It even fits logic. Why would an all knowing God not warn His people BEFORE the Beast Conquers Israel ? When one thinks about this logically, instead of thinking the Beast has to be the AoD, then it makes sense, God would indeed warn His people before they get Conquered to fell Judea for the Mountains. Let me break it down to our level, and we know God is all knowing and we aren't.

If you or I knew that 7 months from now our hometowns were going to be Conquered by a Hitler like nation, would we tell them that when you see "Hitler" riding in on a tank FLEE ? No, if we knew all he future, like God does, we would tell them, "HEY GUYS", this Evil Man {like Hitler} is coming in 7 months, so in 6 Months you will see "THIS HAPPEN",  and when you see it, FLEE Judea, and don't look back !! Well of course we would warn them in advance, and God is way smarter than we are. It doesn't past the smell test that the 1290 happens at the same time as the Beast Conquers Israel. It's just not logical.  What does the Sheep and Goat judgment have to do with the phrase, ALL THESE WONDERS WILL END ? That is the pointed Emphasis, everyone just skips right over it. It's about when these wonders will end, no the 1000 year reign years, the WONDERS END before that !! The truth is that is what you always believed, so like all of us, you have a hard time seeing past those teaching, but you aren't the only one. God knows everything beforehand, its not going to take God time to Judge the wicked, He kills those who are evil, that is the Separation !! It will happen instantaneously brother. Amen.

 

Reread the actual scriptures sometime brother. It's all good. My mom has been having some health issues, sorry about not getting back with you sooner. Gotta run get her medicine in a minute. Nothing wrong with not seeing something brother. As long as one desires the truth it will eventually come to him. God Bless. 

I disagree: this verse is not in reference to "the end of these wonders:"

¹² Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

One could also make the argument that the 3 1/2 years was a rounded off answer, but the 1290 days was exact. Then again, it is possible the 3 1/2 years ends the 70th week, but Jesus does not return for another 30 days, when He finally kills the Beast and False prophet.  It seems likely that Rev. 19 could be 30 days past the 7th vial that ends the week.