Mid Trib rapture anyone?

[iamlamad]

14 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Spock,

Here is a diagram of how I see, (& was taught) the 7 trumpets.

Sorry, but this diagram is MYTH, because it does not follow John's God given chronology. The 7th trumpet is at the MIDPOINT of the week, not the end of the week. 

Question: why form a doctrine where one is forces to rearranged, when Revelation as written is perfect? Why not form a doctrine from Revelation AS WRITTEN? 

[Marilyn C]

[iamlamad]

20 minutes ago, Spock said:

Interesting take.  The moment 6000 is up just so happens to be right at the LAST TRUMPET. 

The confusion I had was I figured this would be said right after the bowls, not the trumpets, since Satan and the AC still have more havoc to make on Earth. I knew Jesus wasn’t returning at the 7th trumpet, so I was wondering on what basis this statement was made here. 

Your answer is doable....I suppose.  ?

Oh ye of little faith; why did you doubt?  ?

[Marilyn C]

27 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Sorry, but this diagram is MYTH, because it does not follow John's God given chronology. The 7th trumpet is at the MIDPOINT of the week, not the end of the week. 

Question: why form a doctrine where one is forces to rearranged, when Revelation as written is perfect? Why not form a doctrine from Revelation AS WRITTEN? 

Hi iamlamad,

Revelation is about the Father unveiling His Son to us in four visions. That is why there is an overlap.

Marilyn.

[Spock]

I am having a problem reconciling the timeline I recently proposed..

i asked if this was possible:

1. First 3.5 years.....two witnesses doing their thing  (it appears they are resurrected at the 6th trumpet)

2. Rapture shortly before midpoint, AOD at midpoint

3. Second 3.5 years......two of satan’s witnesses rule. (AC, FP) 

undecided: how the seals and trumpets play out. 

my dilemma is this:  I do not believe the church experiences God’s wrath. I believe God’s wrath commences after the 6th seal (thus the rapture should take place at this point). However, I also see the rapture at Rev 12:5.

How to make all this fit?  Is it even possible? 

NO....It doesn’t seem possible. I don’t see how the 6th seal can precede the rapture at the midpoint when the 6th trumpet apparently precedes the midpoint. 

THEREFORE, TIMELINE PLAN B MODEL:

 I think I can make this fit is I had the two witnesses doing their thing in the second half of the week together with the beast and false prophet.  Maybe that is what I need to do.

1. First half of the week, 3.5 years:  6th seal near the end close to the midpoint, rapture here

2. Midpoint:  AOD, fleeing of Jews, trumpets begin

3. Second half of the week, 3.5 years: trumpets play out; AC and 10 nations take over; bowls at the end of the week

ANY THOUGHTS, COMMENTS, CRITICISMS, APPLAUSE ON TIMELINE PLAN B MODEL?

[Spock]

9 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

It certainly appears the judgments are CONSECUTIVE, not concurrent.

Look at Rev 15:1 for example....”Then I saw another sign in Heaven, great and amazing, seven angels with seven plagues, WHICH ARE THE LAST, for withnthem the wrath of God is finished.”

So, if the bowls are LAST, how could you put them before a seal and a trumpet? 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Spock,

Here is a diagram of chapters.

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, backontrack said:

...

And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming (Greek – Parousia): 2Thessalonians 2:8

This verse speaks of the destruction of the Antichrist at the end of his 42 month reign of terror. This brings us to my second question (please take a moment and earnestly consider this):

How could the Coming /Parousia (and our gathering unto Jesus) destroy Antichrist at the end of his 42 month reign if the Coming /Parousia (and our gathering unto Jesus) happens before the tribulation? How is this possible?

If you understand Paul in this passage, the "then" of the revealing cannot take place until the departing (the gathering and departing) come first. The Holy Spirit, through the church, is restraining the man of sin, preventing him from being revealed before the right time. But one day Jesus will come (to the air only) and the church will be "taken out of the way." THEN (and not until then) will the man of sin be revealed. 

If we follow John's narrative in Revelation, that revealing is at the 7th trumpet, chapter 11, but His coming is not until chapter 19, AFTER the 70th week has ended. (It ends with the 7th vial.) 

This verse speaks of the destruction of the Antichrist at the end of his 42 month reign of terror.  Yes, indeed it does AFTER these words : then shall that Wicked be revealed  The revealing is at the midpoint, not at the end. Paul just summed things up and put two events together - when in reality they will be years apart.

How could the Coming /Parousia (and our gathering unto Jesus) destroy Antichrist

You are mixing up two comings. He comes for the church but remains in the clouds and then takes His bride back to the homes He has prepared.  He comes again WITH His saints as shown in Rev. 19. "The saints" will make up one of the armies from heaven.  He does NOT "destroy Antichrist" while remaining in the clouds to receive His bride. 

If you want the truth of the timing of the rapture, you MUST refer to Paul, for HE and he alone received that revelation. Paul, in 1 Thes. 5 gives us the TIMING of His rapture gathering: it will be a moment before God's wrath begins in the "sudden destruction" earthquake caused by the dead in Christ rising. Those living "in Christ" get raptured, but those living in darkness get left behind and suffer that sudden destruction - they cannot escape for they are left behind. 

WHERE does Paul's rapture fit in the Revelation narrative? It fits just an instant before the 6th seal. It was not mistake that John SAW the raptured church in chapter 7, right after the 6th seal - as the crowd too large to number.

[Spock]

5 minutes ago, Da Puppers said:

Your getting closer. 

Jesus comes with his 7 trumpet angels(the 1st trumpet is the rapture,  last trumpet is the inheritance (resurrection) of the saints.   Each trumpet is associated with each week of the feast of (7) weeks with the 7th one coming at Pentecost.   The 5th one (trumpet) takes place on the 22nd day of the 2nd month(man of sin revealed) and Armageddon takes place on the 22nd day of Tishri (7th month, 3.5 years later,known as Shmini Atzerat) exactly 42 months later. 

Blessings

The PuP 

Thanks Pup. I’m sure LAmad and Marilyn are cringing reading my new timeline. 

Edited March 8, 2019 by Spock

[Marilyn C]

Hi Spock,

The seals are the timeline for the judgments. You will notice that the great earthquake is at the end of a few chapters. Now the last couple of trumpets concern the gathering together to Armageddon, and the 7 bowls are within that. They declare the great darkness over the beast`s kingdom and the dying up of the Euphrates making way for the great army from the east to Armageddon. The 7th bowl is the great earthquake which lines up with the DOTL of all men for judgment.

Marilyn.