Mid Trib rapture anyone?

[Marilyn C]

Seven is a special number in scripture, beginning with a seven, and finishing with a succession of sevens. Seven in Hebrew is `shaba,` meaning to be complete. The seventh month of the Jewish calendar was distinguished above all other months. It was a sacred month and bore on its name the numerical impress of the covenant, and as such, was to be hallowed above all months of the year.

The Feasts of Trumpets was at the beginning of the month, and called the people to God, while the Day of Atonement was the time when the High priest went in to the Holy of Holies to receive National forgiveness.  

The High Priest took the blood of the altar (from outside) and fire and incense from the golden altar, (inside) then he sprinkled these before the Ark of the Covenant.   

These are holy convocations, Feasts of the Lord. They have yet to find their fulfilment in what the Lord will do for Israel. Being together in the sacred month they are connected. The trumpets prepare the people for the special event of their national forgiveness by God. If they were forgiven (for that year), then the glory cloud would be seen, and the High Priest would come out to the people to proclaim National deliverance for another year.

All these events we can see in Leviticus and Revelation.

• The trumpets ready to sound. (Rev. 8: 2) (Lev. 23: 23 - 25)

• The altar of incense (Rev. 8: 3) (Lev. 16: 12)

• The `angel` took the censer, with fire and threw it to the earth. (Rev. 8: 5) (Lev. 16: 12 - 14)

• Hail, fire and blood were thrown to the earth.(Rev. 8: 7) (Lev. 16: 14)

• The temple of God was opened and the Ark of the Covenant was seen. (Rev. 11: 19) (Lev. 16: 17)

• The temple of tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened. (Rev. 15: 5)

• The temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God and from His power. (Rev. 15: 8) (Lev. 16: 17)(Lev. 16: 2)

• Then heaven opened and out came .....(Rev. 19: 11)(Lev. 16: 17)

 

 Marilyn.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

Seven is a special number in scripture, beginning with a seven, and finishing with a succession of sevens. Seven in Hebrew is `shaba,` meaning to be complete. The seventh month of the Jewish calendar was distinguished above all other months. It was a sacred month and bore on its name the numerical impress of the covenant, and as such, was to be hallowed above all months of the year.

The Feasts of Trumpets was at the beginning of the month, and called the people to God, while the Day of Atonement was the time when the High priest went in to the Holy of Holies to receive National forgiveness.  

The High Priest took the blood of the altar (from outside) and fire and incense from the golden altar, (inside) then he sprinkled these before the Ark of the Covenant.   

These are holy convocations, Feasts of the Lord. They have yet to find their fulfilment in what the Lord will do for Israel. Being together in the sacred month they are connected. The trumpets prepare the people for the special event of their national forgiveness by God. If they were forgiven (for that year), then the glory cloud would be seen, and the High Priest would come out to the people to proclaim National deliverance for another year.

All these events we can see in Leviticus and Revelation.

• The trumpets ready to sound. (Rev. 8: 2) (Lev. 23: 23 - 25)

• The altar of incense (Rev. 8: 3) (Lev. 16: 12)

• The `angel` took the censer, with fire and threw it to the earth. (Rev. 8: 5) (Lev. 16: 12 - 14)

• Hail, fire and blood were thrown to the earth.(Rev. 8: 7) (Lev. 16: 14)

• The temple of God was opened and the Ark of the Covenant was seen. (Rev. 11: 19) (Lev. 16: 17)

• The temple of tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened. (Rev. 15: 5)

• The temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God and from His power. (Rev. 15: ? (Lev. 16: 17)(Lev. 16: 2)

• Then heaven opened and out came .....(Rev. 19: 11)(Lev. 16: 17)

 

 Marilyn.

I believe there is a great chance that the rapture will come at the last trump - of the feast of trumpets - a moment before the 6th seal. Then will come the 10 days of awe, and then the 7th seal will open the 70th week. I am only guessing on the rapture at the feast of trumpets. It just makes sense.

[Marilyn C]

49 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

I believe there is a great chance that the rapture will come at the last trump - of the feast of trumpets - a moment before the 6th seal. Then will come the 10 days of awe, and then the 7th seal will open the 70th week. I am only guessing on the rapture at the feast of trumpets. It just makes sense.

Hi iamlamad,

All the convocations, the Feasts of the Lord were for Israel to keep. The Lord will yet fulfil the final ones for them. The Body of Christ never had those feasts, and they are not in relation to us.

Marilyn.

[iamlamad]

Just now, Marilyn C said:

Hi iamlamad,

All the convocations, the Feasts of the Lord were for Israel to keep. The Lord will yet fulfil the final ones for them. The Body of Christ never had those feasts, and they are not in relation to us.

Marilyn.

Yet, Jesus fulfilled the spring feasts at His first coming. Many think He will fulfill the fall feasts at His next coming.

[Marilyn C]

27 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Yet, Jesus fulfilled the spring feasts at His first coming. Many think He will fulfill the fall feasts at His next coming.

I agree. The feasts were given for a purpose and they have yet to be fulfilled. How wonderful that God would have Israel to keep those feasts over the centuries and for us to read of God`s purposes for them through Christ.

Marilyn.

[Spock]

11 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Yet, Jesus fulfilled the spring feasts at His first coming. Many think He will fulfill the fall feasts at His next coming.

Hey LA,

Do you place the two witnesses in the first half or second half of the week? 

You agree, they are killed and resurrected around the 6th trumpet (2nd woe), right? 

[Spock]

On 3/10/2019 at 10:03 AM, iamlamad said:

So you are saying that the 70th week must begin sometime during the church martyrs?  

Anyone can pretty much find the midpoint of the week as Rev. 12:6. It is the fleeing caused by people SEEING the abomination.  Note carefully that the midpoint of the week is at the 7th trumpet. Therefore your theory simply won't work: the first 6 trumpets MUST BE in the first half of the week. 

Wow! All this because you misunderstand Rev. 12:1-5 and imagine it must be the rapture.  You amaze me.

 

LA,

I would like to further this specific part of our discussion if you don’t mind. This is very important to me because I can use your answers to test my recent hypothesis...my Plan C Timeline. 

1. Remember, I said I believe the rapture is shown in 12:5, which is around the midpoint of the week, assuming 12:6 is shortly after the abomination.  As a result, I am EXPLORING ALL OPTIONS to see if everything else can fit using that as my starting point (of course the AOD is at the midpoint is also a given landmark) 

2. You mentioned putting the 6th seal 3 years into the 70th week puts the church martyrs into the week. I don’t understand why this cannot work.  If the 5th seal represents Church martyrs, I don’t see why their can’t be additional martyrs for these three additional years.  Why do you insist that you cannot have any additional martyrs  once the peace treaty is signed? Please explain why you believe this doesn’t make sense. 

3. Lastly, you said the midpoint is at the 7th trumpet. Could you please show me in scripture why this is so. I see the killing and the resurrection of the two witnesses at the 6th seal (second woe).  I believe the two witnesses are doing their thing during the second half of the week, so if this is accurate, this puts the 6th seal toward THE END of the week, and not in the middle.  Please explain to me why you believe the 7th seal in in the middle through scripture only. 

Thanks,

spock 

 

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Spock said:

LA,

I would like to further this specific part of our discussion if you don’t mind. This is very important to me because I can use your answers to test my recent hypothesis...my Plan C Timeline. 

1. Remember, I said I believe the rapture is shown in 12:5, which is around the midpoint of the week, assuming 12:6 is shortly after the abomination.  As a result, I am EXPLORING ALL OPTIONS to see if everything else can fit using that as my starting point (of course the AOD is at the midpoint is also a given landmark) 

2. You mentioned putting the 6th seal 3 years into the 70th week puts the church martyrs into the week. I don’t understand why this cannot work.  If the 5th seal represents Church martyrs, I don’t see why their can’t be additional martyrs for these three additional years.  Why do you insist that you cannot have any additional martyrs  once the peace treaty is signed? Please explain why you believe this doesn’t make sense. 

3. Lastly, you said the midpoint is at the 7th trumpet. Could you please show me in scripture why this is so. I see the killing and the resurrection of the two witnesses at the 6th seal (second woe).  I believe the two witnesses are doing their thing during the second half of the week, so if this is accurate, this puts the 6th seal toward THE END of the week, and not in the middle.  Please explain to me why you believe the 7th seal in in the middle through scripture only. 

Thanks,

spock 

Look, Spock, either you BELIEVE Revelation is in proper chronological order, or you don't. It is that simple. For those that don't mind rearranging, they can make Revelation say most anything (and some do.)

For those that refuse to rearrange, Revelation then has one message - the one intended by the Author, the Holy Spirit. Revelation shows us that God's wrath begins at the 6th seal. IN TIME, that is over 3.5 years before anything is chapter 12. That is just the way it is written - IN chronological order. If you disagree with John's order, you must have good scriptural proof it is not. Just so you know, no one has EVER proved with scripture that Revelation is NOT in proper order.

God's wrath BEGINS at the 6th seal. This means that The following judgments COME with God's wrath:

Trumpet one: God's wrath in trees and grass burned up

Trumpet two: God's wrath in 1/3 of sea turning to blood

Trumpet three: God's wrath in fresh water being poisoned

Trumpet four: God's wrath in a third of heavenly lights shut off 

Trumpet five: God's wrath in the locusts

Trumpet six: God's wrath in 1/3 of earth's population killed. 

Trumpet 7 is a marker - but God is still angry

Vial 1: God's wrath in terrible sores

Vial 2: God's wrath in all the sea turning to blood

Vial 3: God's wrath in all the fresh water turning to blood

Vial 4: God's wrath in scorching men with heat

Vial 5: God's wrath in total darkness

Vial 6: God's wrath in calling the nations of the world to Armageddon

YOU imagine that between trumpet 7 and vial 1 you can have the rapture and there be no wrath before it. Good luck with that!

puts the church martyrs into the week. I don’t understand why this cannot work.  It CANNOT work, for they will be in God's wrath. The rapture must come BEFORE God's wrath. That means BEFORE the 6th seal. 

The 6th seal is for church age martyrs. The pretrib rapture will END the church age, and so close up the totall number of church age martyrs. Remember, God has the number, and it waiting for it to be fulfilled. I don't think there will BE any martyrs for the first 3 years. I don't think God will allow anyone to die. (just my opinion) It is written that people will seek death but cannot find it. The martyrs of the second half are given no seal or anything; they just show up in heaven in Rev. 15.

the midpoint is at the 7th trumpet. Could you please show me in scripture why this is so.  I have said it over and over. It is the word "midst" in Daniel 9:27: the Hebrew word means to divide in half. It happens when some event STOPS the daily sacrifices.  I think the man of sin entering the temple will stop the sacrifices and so that event will be the abomination And at 12:6 people flee because they just saw the abomiation Back up two seconds or so from 12:6 - looking for a seal, or a trumpet or a vial as a marker. What do you find?

I see the killing and the resurrection of the two witnesses at the 6th seal (second woe)  No one else does! Why? Because they are still in heaven at that point in time: they don't SHOW UP on earth until 11:3 just 3.5 days before the midpoint. How then can you see them when they are still in heaven? (I am quite sure they will be Enoch and Elijah - the two men who did not die - yet.

if this is accurate, this puts the 6th seal toward THE END of the week  You are rearranging - so you WILL BE proven wrong. And all this because you IMAGINE the rapture is in chapter 12? Let go of that silly idea!

[Marilyn C]

Hi Spock,

Here is another diagram, (lol) which I think is what you are saying. I believe it is true except I think the martyrs are those out of the trib, and NOT the Body of Christ.

Marilyn.

 

.

[iamlamad]

30 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Spock,

Here is another diagram, (lol) which I think is what you are saying. I believe it is true except I think the martyrs are those out of the trib, and NOT the Body of Christ.

Marilyn.

 

.

I don't think this is what Revelation tells us at all: the first 6 trumpets are in the first half of the week, and the 7th trumpet marks the midpoint. Sorry, but there is no "coming" at the 7th trumpet. Think about it: the 7th trumpet is in chapter 11, and the end of the week is in chapter 16.  Any theory that rearranges Revelation to "fit" will be proven wrong.