Mid Trib rapture anyone?

[Marilyn C]

42 minutes ago, ARGOSY said:

Let me try. Often animals/beasts represent kingdoms as per Daniel 7.

These horsemen are 4 consecutive stages in world history, my personal view is they are linking the time of the 7 churches to the future aspects of Revelation. Horses being beasts, kingdoms.

White horse - symbol of crusades, the West's attempt to regain control of the Middle East. Achieved WWI through the British Empire.

Red horse - red symbol of communism starts WWI. Ruined the "Pax Britannica", cold war, communist wars everywhere. Ended with fall of the Berlin Wall 1989

Black Horse - symbol of banking, poor get poorer, rich get richer, European Capitalists control democracies and send in their Western armies to control and dominate and scare the Middle East, and take oil wealth. Do not spare the oil. Starts 1990 Gulf War. To end with the antichrist coming to power and defeating Western armies.

Green/pale Horse - symbol of Islam. Islamic control of Israel via the antichrist "Isa", a West friendly fake "Jesus/Messiah".

 

Hi ARGOSY,

Thanks for your encouragement back further, much appreciated. Now I do notice we arrived at the same 4 Super Powers but via a different route.

Marilyn. 

[ARGOSY]

6 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi ARGOSY,

Thanks for your encouragement back further, much appreciated. Now I do notice we arrived at the same 4 Super Powers but via a different route.

Marilyn. 

Interesting that. 

[Marilyn C]

27 minutes ago, ARGOSY said:

Interesting that. 

Hi ARGOSY,

Actually it is only the very beginning of the 1st horseman that we differ on. But it`s great we see them as those Super Powers of today. I do appreciate you giving more details of them for Spock and others. Great.

Marilyn.

[ARGOSY]

14 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi ARGOSY,

Actually it is only the very beginning of the 1st horseman that we differ on. But it`s great we see them as those Super Powers of today. I do appreciate you giving more details of them for Spock and others. Great.

Marilyn.

Thanks just to give you some background to my extended timeframe of the white horse, Rome was fully in control over Israel during the writing of Revelation, and this continued under the Byzantium Empire who then lost control to Islam.  This is when Western Europe keeps trying to regain control,  bent on conquest until WWI.

 

[Spock]

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi ARGOSY,

Actually it is only the very beginning of the 1st horseman that we differ on. But it`s great we see them as those Super Powers of today. I do appreciate you giving more details of them for Spock and others. Great.

Marilyn.

Wait M., hold off on the high fives to brother Argosy. Because he said these 4 represent HISTORY. He believes two of them have expired.

I know that is not your thinking. You see them as contemporary, all happening during the end time, not in history. 

Big difference don’t you think? Although I do see some similarities. 

Edited March 17, 2019 by Spock

[Marilyn C]

2 hours ago, Spock said:

Wait M., hold off on the high fives to brother Argosy. Because he said these 4 represent HISTORY. He believes two of them have expired.

I know that is not your thinking. You see them as contemporary, all happening during the end time, not in history. 

Big difference don’t you think? Although I do see some similarities. 

Hi Spock,

Yes, however Argosy did get to the contemporary eventually. I think I will address some of those things with ARGOSY, that you have pointed out. I tend to skim read and only go for the main points and if I have to then go back for detail. I really should read more carefully the questions.

Glad you can see similarities. Do you want to tell us any difficulties you have when reading my comments?

Also I have prepared some notes on your written timeline of the tribulation, with diagrams (of course, lol). I have done it in two parts, - first part of trib, as you say, with my comments, and the second part of the trib, with my comments. Best to bite a bit at a time ay, bro.

Tell me if & when you want to look at that.

Marilyn

[Spock]

36 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Spock,

Yes, however Argosy did get to the contemporary eventually. I think I will address some of those things with ARGOSY, that you have pointed out. I tend to skim read and only go for the main points and if I have to then go back for detail. I really should read more carefully the questions.

Glad you can see similarities. Do you want to tell us any difficulties you have when reading my comments?

Also I have prepared some notes on your written timeline of the tribulation, with diagrams (of course, lol). I have done it in two parts, - first part of trib, as you say, with my comments, and the second part of the trib, with my comments. Best to bite a bit at a time ay, bro.

Tell me if & when you want to look at that.

Marilyn

I can’t wait, sister. Lay it on me. Let’s discuss. 

[Marilyn C]

8 hours ago, ARGOSY said:

 

 

Hi ARGOSY,

I do have some comments for you, but will hold off as this is Spock`s thread and need to discuss his thoughts first.

regards, Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

3 hours ago, Spock said:

I can’t wait, sister. Lay it on me. Let’s discuss. 

Hi Spock,

As this is your thread I need to focus on your questions and comments & have told ARGOSY that we can do that topic later. Here is the first part of your written timeline.

Spock`s Timeline.

Seals 1-4 maybe already opened in past; if not in past immediately after peace treaty, start of week

Seals 5 and 6 released around the 3 year mark

Rapture at 6th seal

Trumpets 1-4 released

Midpoint....3.5 years....

 

My Comments.

I see 4 difficulties with that, so let`s discuss.

1.Three years - what is happening there, (from scripture) as it is the tribulation?

 

2.The martyrs. (5^th Seal) We are only told that the martyrs are those who do not take the mark of the beast & that is from the midpoint onwards when the anti-Christ persecutes them. So I would move the 5^th seal to the midpoint. (Rev. 20: 4)

 

3.The Great Earthquake. (6^th Seal) Now God has told us that He will only once more `shake the heavens and earth.` (Heb. 12: 26) Looking at the 6^th Seal we read that the heavens and the earth are shaken by the Lord.

`..sun became black….moon became like blood….stars fell from heaven, sky rolled up like a scroll, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place.` (Rev. 6: 12 - 14)

The Prophet Joel tells us when that great event occurs. The `valley of Decision` is the valley of Jehoshaphat outside Jerusalem where all the world`s armoies have been gathered.

`Multitude, multitudes in the valley of decision! For the Day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision. The sun and moon will grow dark, and the stars will diminish their brightness. The Lord also will roar from Zion, (heaven) and utter His voice from Jerusalem; the heavens and earth will shake,...`(Joel 3: 14 - 16)

Thus the Great Earthquake of the 6^th seal refers, I believe to just before the Lord returns in power and great glory with His angelic army, at the end of the tribulation.

 

 4. The Trumpets 1 - 4. You are perhaps thinking that they will occur during the 6 months before the midpoint. That could happen, except we see that the Lord, figured as the High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary, initiates these catastrophes. And that will commence the tribulation, for He is the executor of the Father`s will. (the judgment scroll) Thus I believe they are at the start of the tribulation.

Looking forward to our discussion. (BTW you always make me think as you ask interesting questions, so go for it.)

 Marilyn.

[ARGOSY]

On 2/17/2019 at 5:56 PM, Spock said:

This might be long, but I hope it is interesting enough to not abandon.I want to go on record and say I am not advocating a mid Trib rapture.....but rather am just asking questions to see the pros and cons for such doctrine. Here is what I’m thinking:

1. I don’t really know if the four horsemen have ridden or not, and I really don’t know if the AC is the rider on the white horse and begins the releasing of the seals. In addition,  I don’t really know if the seals begin right when Daniels 70th week begins. I see support for both positions (already ridden or future).

2. I feel much stronger in my belief that the rapture occurs around the 6th seal and this rapture is represented in the Bible in Rev 7:9-17.  But I still am foggy as to WHEN the 6th seal occurs in relation to Daniels 70th week.

3. I presently believe the 6th seal is released BEFORE the 70th week commences, which means before the covenant being confirmed, but I’m not closed to still studying other thoughts. In particular the MID TRIB RAPTURE PERSPECTIVE. 

4. I’m not interested in reading about the POST TRIB RAPTURE because I’ve read enough and find it wanting

I see my post trib beliefs are not welcome in this thread, even though the other views are found wanting . Nice?

Occam's razor, why complicate a view if the simplest works without contradiction. Eg if you coincide every time there's a great earthquake, every time mountains move, every time there is a great war, every final trumpet, every time the lamb conquers kings of the Earth, then a simple picture emerges.

 

Regarding wrath, there is always wrath here, even during current times there is the wrath of God and the rise and fall of nations.  But there is final wrath , the great winepress of wrath outside Jerusalem, always placed at the second coming. That is the wrath we avoid, the good harvest of Rev 14 occurs before the harvest and winepress of wrath outside Jerusalem.

Edited March 18, 2019 by ARGOSY