Mid Trib rapture anyone?

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, Spock said:

M.,

just in case you missed it, I have a second post I made this morning, a longer post,  with about 8 points I addressed. I also commented on the great Haggai passage you cited that blew me over last night.I hope you like. It is on page 54. 

As usual, I enjoy any feedback or rebuttals on any of those points. 

As for what you said here, I don’t feel I rejected the 6th seal at the end of the week very quickly....I read your basis and study and did my own. I feel if I can’t believe the Rev 16 EQ is the same as the Rev 6 EW, why press on any further?

Spock

Hi Spock,

Thanks, I did miss it, though I was coming back to have a closer look this morning. I will go and check out you comments. Glad you did some more study.

Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Marilyn, this is simply not true; how would anyone KNOW if the moon was blood red - unless it was SEEN?  A blood red moon is visible. Do a google search on blood moon.  The moon appears red in color during a lunar eclipse. 

Where do you get a single day for the Day of the Lord?  I think the 70th week is INSIDE the Day of the Lord.  The week ends but the DAY continues.

Hi iamlamad,

Important point ` ...WILL GROW DARK.`  (Joel 3: 15) We see that is a process, and we know that when the sun does GROW dark that there will NOT be any light from the moon. For where does the moon get its light? The sun grows dark, the moon turns to LIKE blood and then eventually doesn`t reflect the sun because the sun is dark.

Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

7 hours ago, Spock said:

Okay M., Ive spent sometime studying scripture, in particular Rev 6 compared to Rev 16 earthquake. Here we go...

 

Hi Spock,

Yes you have been busy.

1.Now first up I see you assume that the trumpets follow the seals. That`s like saying, “Well God created man in Gen. 1 so the man in Gen. 2 must be another man. See the flaw in your logic? You assume, and have not thought to see if they run parallel.

Your musings are therefore coloured by your assumption. Unless you try the parallel view, as in Gen. 1 & 2 you cannot be sure that you are right.

2.You again assume because God has not spelt it all out for you, to say that it is now the DOTL, then it can`t be. In a case of law, you know that all the pieces come together to fit the picture. You don`t have to have every bit, saying the same thing.

The Day of the Lord is AFTER Armageddon as Joel 3 reveals.

3. You say, `Stars falling,` probably angelic beings. You are mixing your literal & non literal in one picture. The sun & moon are real, & therefore so are the stars.

4. You say `the heavens receded..` are for those going up, whereas there is NO mention of that. Pure speculation there bro.

5.`Every mountain...`   

Rev. 6: 14 `kineo,` were removed,  just a presentation of the facts.

Rev. 16:20 `phengo` to run away, is a pictorial representation, to emphise how great & mighty was the great earthquake.

 

6. Ok Spock I see your reasoning, however......(always a however, (lol) there is a process. Look back at Rev.16: 10 & 11 and we see men blaspheming God because of the darkness, and then later they continue to blaspheme because of the great hail. But we do NOT see the heavens opened just yet till after the details of the world`s judgments are given. (Rev. 17 & 18)

Rev. 19: 11 reveals that WHEN the heavens open then the Lord comes forth with His angelic army.

Rev. 6: 12 - 13 is a summary of the last events. The `sky receding` is the key to WHEN the Lord comes.  And that matches Rev. 19: 11 WHEN the Lord does indeed come.

So at first men are blaspheming because of the darkness and later hail. BUT when the sky recedes they realise that God is actually going to judge them - thus great fear.

 

That is enough for now....Marilyn.

 

 

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi iamlamad,

Important point ` ...WILL GROW DARK.`  (Joel 3: 15) We see that is a process, and we know that when the sun does GROW dark that there will NOT be any light from the moon. For where does the moon get its light? The sun grows dark, the moon turns to LIKE blood and then eventually doesn`t reflect the sun because the sun is dark.

Marilyn.

Sorry, but Young's literal disagrees:
Sun and moon have been black, And stars have gathered up their shining. As far as I know, the ONLY time the moon appears red color is during an eclipse. The sun's rays bend around it and causes a shift in color. However, God could certain create a red color...but it seems God frequently uses natural means to accomplish things.

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

Sorry, but Young's literal disagrees:
Sun and moon have been black, And stars have gathered up their shining. As far as I know, the ONLY time the moon appears red color is during an eclipse. The sun's rays bend around it and causes a shift in color. However, God could certain create a red color...but it seems God frequently uses natural means to accomplish things.

Hi iamlamad,

I am really only interested in discussing scripture with scripture - God interpreting His own word.

Marilyn.

[The Light]

Hi Spock,

I have read about half of the comments in this thread (at this point) and I have a question for you. Can you explain to me what event is occurring in the following verse?

Matthew 24

³⁰ And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

³¹ And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Thank you.

 

[iamlamad]

9 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi iamlamad,

I am really only interested in discussing scripture with scripture - God interpreting His own word.

Marilyn.

Marilyn, when discussing scripture, we must do our best to arrive at the absolute best translation into English.  Sorry, I quoted scripture but did not make it clear. I did a poor job with that post. Here is Young's literal translation:

Joel 3:15  Sun and moon have been black, And stars have gathered up their shining.

This gets to another important point in discussing points of doctrine: Hebrew as a language is no where near as precise a language as either Greek or English.  Because of this, it is unwise to build doctrine based on Old Testament scripture alone.  Build doctrine from the New Testament as much as is possible, and then fill in missing pieces from the Old.  Case in point? This verse in Joel really does not say what you thought it said. 

Another wise point: if one passage has 4,000 words on a subject, and another has only 20, then learn doctrine from the most complete passage and again, fill in  missing pieces from the smallest passage. Case in Point: Daniel has 9:27 - one verse - on the 70th week, while Revelation has 9 chapters! Wisdom then would dictate that we learn doctrine from Revelation FIRST, and then fill in missing points from other scriptures. 

[Spock]

4 hours ago, The Light said:

Hi Spock,

I have read about half of the comments in this thread (at this point) and I have a question for you. Can you explain to me what event is occurring in the following verse?

Matthew 24

³⁰ And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

³¹ And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Thank you.

 

Greetings Light,

Second coming of Christ ( not the rapture) 

Live long and prosper (in the Lord),

spock

Edited March 21, 2019 by Spock

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Spock said:

Greetings Light,

Second coming of Christ ( not the rapture) 

Live long and prosper (in the Lord),

spock

Great Answer, Spock!

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, The Light said:

Hi Spock,

I have read about half of the comments in this thread (at this point) and I have a question for you. Can you explain to me what event is occurring in the following verse?

Matthew 24

³⁰ And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

³¹ And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Thank you.

I hope you don't mind if I answer also: it is my belief that this gathering will be God gathering together all the Jews and people from the other tribes back to Israel - as He has promised them. Did you read closely WHERE this gathering is gathered from?