Are these the twelve last shepherds in Israel ?

[Justin Adams]

1 minute ago, Jayne said:

Again, have you read the entire books of Enoch

Quite a few church fathers thought of the Book Enoch 1 as canonical. Maybe read their essays. The Eastern Church includes it in their canon.

There were at least three canons hotly debated. And Peter, Yeshua (obliquely) and Jude quote Enoch.

Enoch  1 and the Book of the Giants are similar. Read the Qumran scholars theology and you might be surprised how such a conservative group could come up with some of their ideas. These were NOT Sunday afternoon meddlers because the TV broke. This was their life!

[iamlamad]

6 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Your theology might say that, but the bible does not. And 'which' bible are you referring to?

ESV and EXB and others say that Gen 6 is pretty clear. Read Psalm 82 and Deut 32 and a whole bunch of other quotes that have not been 'adjusted' to suit Augustine and his ilk. It is so patently obvious to any scholar worth his salt, that even the 'church fathers' made mistakes. But the Judaic Theologians and Qumran Scholars did not. The later scripture publications have much that has been discovered at Qumran and the Hebrew and Aramaic texts plus Greek scripts.

Even the Septuagint was 'adjusted' around 150-200 AD so the 'new' Masoretic text now sports the Judaic ideas that prior translations did not. Hmm. Wonder why?

Matthew 22:30  At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

So...did God change them sometime and did not tell us?

KJ21    There were giants on the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men and they bore children to them, the same became mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

ASV    The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them: the same were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown.

AMP    There were Nephilim (men of stature, notorious men) on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God lived with the daughters of men, and they gave birth to their children. These were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown (great reputation, fame).

AMPC    There were giants on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God lived with the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

BRG    There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

CSB    The Nephilim were on the earth both in those days and afterward, when the sons of God came to the daughters of mankind, who bore children to them. They were the powerful men of old, the famous men.

As anyone can see, the giants PRECEDED  the Sons of God co-populating with the daughters of man...

The theory of giants as descendants of angels is MYTH.

[Justin Adams]

1 minute ago, iamlamad said:

Matthew 22:30  At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

No, God's heavenly beings do not need to. We are only talking about the ones that came down from heaven and decided to make a nation for themselves and teach their charges all the wrong stuff.

As for the rest of your statement. It is patently incorrect no matter how much you want it to be true. The Nephilim, if you study ancient scripts were VERY WELL KNOWN in all early societies' writings. Just like the flood was.

I will discuss it no further.

There is much scholarship evidence about this in early scriptures PLUS cuneiform that is still being translated. 

[Jayne]

5 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Quite a few church fathers thought of the Book Enoch 1 as canonical. Maybe read their essays. The Eastern Church includes it in their canon.

There were at least three canons hotly debated. And Peter, Yeshua (obliquely) and Jude quote Enoch.

Enoch  1 and the Book of the Giants are similar. Read the Qumran scholars theology and you might be surprised how such a conservative group could come up with some of their ideas. These were NOT Sunday afternoon meddlers because the TV broke. This was their life!

"Quite a few?"  How many is that?  Some of them also believe that you had to be baptized to be saved and some of them also believe in universalism.  They believed in all kinds of things that weren't true nor of God.  They weren't infallible.

You didn't answer the question.  You just stated what someone else thought.  Perhaps instead of reading their essays you should actually read the entire book of Enoch.

Have YOU read the entire books of Enoch?  And compared them to what the Bible says?

[Jostler]

28 minutes ago, Jayne said:

"Quite a few?"  How many is that?  Some of them also believe that you had to be baptized to be saved and some of them also believe in universalism.  They believed in all kinds of things that weren't true nor of God.  They weren't infallible.

You didn't answer the question.  You just stated what someone else thought.  Perhaps instead of reading their essays you should actually read the entire book of Enoch.

Have YOU read the entire books of Enoch?  And compared them to what the Bible says?

Would you mind sharing some of your comparisons?  Where have you explicitly seen Enoch 1 disagreeing with Scripture? 

[Jayne]

2 hours ago, Jostler said:

Would you mind sharing some of your comparisons?  Where have you explicitly seen Enoch 1 disagreeing with Scripture? 

I'll be delighted to.  Thank you for asking.  I'm going to start a new thread as this one has been hijacked from what the OP intended.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Jayne

[iamlamad]

8 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

No, God's heavenly beings do not need to. We are only talking about the ones that came down from heaven and decided to make a nation for themselves and teach their charges all the wrong stuff.

As for the rest of your statement. It is patently incorrect no matter how much you want it to be true. The Nephilim, if you study ancient scripts were VERY WELL KNOWN in all early societies' writings. Just like the flood was.

I will discuss it no further.

There is much scholarship evidence about this in early scriptures PLUS cuneiform that is still being translated. 

Readers: it appears this writer seems to think that the angels that fell must be different than the angels that remained in heaven: the ones that fell could marry as humans do!  By the way, if it is not found in the bible, it is pretty much myth.

Yes, the bible certainly mentions there were giants in the land. But AFTER THAT - that is after there were giants on the land, then the sons of God (humans that believed in God) found daughters of men (girls that did not believe in God) and married them. They did not produce giants, as giants were already in the land.

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Tampered With said:

It is found in the bible and is talked about extensively in various threads on this very forum. So much for your myth theory. Perhaps you need to check out all those other posts before attacking another forum member. 

What? Do you imagine I wrote that verse? Look in YOUR bible: MOSES wrote it. "There were giants in the land, and then, AFTER THAT..."....that is AFTER Giants roamed the land, then (after) the sons of God (those men that followed God at the time) found wives from the daughters of men (those people at the time NOT following God.)

If you don't believe this, you are free to change what I wrote in the parentheses.  Put your words in.  You are free to believe in myths if you wish. If you wish to believe Moses missed it, you are free.

Note carefully the fallen angels are chained up, so not free to do as they desired.

[R. Hartono]

Last friday i dreamed of seeing Netanjahu fell down, i dont know if it means anything. Just sayin.

[R. Hartono]

Last friday i dreamed of seeing Netanjahu fell down, i dont know if it means anything. Just sayin.