ROMANS 2:28 THE CHURCH IS NOT ISRAEL

[douge]

13 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi douge,

I do agree that the Body of Christ is not Israel. Great. Now there is a part of your OP that I disagree with. The scripture in Rev. 5: 10 is -

`And have made us kings and priests to our God, and we shall reign OVER the earth.` (Rev. 5: 10)

The Greek word is `epi` and means OVER here which is in agreement with other scriptures relating to the Body of Christ.

`To Him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on my throne,...` (Rev. 3: 21)

It is the Body of Christ who are kingpriests under the Lord who is the King & High priest. Together we will rule from the highest realm in all of God`s great kingdom.

Israel is only promised a king and some priests. (Ez. 37: 24  &  Jer. 30: 9 & Ez. 19: 6)

Marilyn.

Hello

Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

It is to the children of Israel only to be a holy nation and a kingdom of priests.

[Marilyn C]

5 hours ago, douge said:

Hello

Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

It is to the children of Israel only to be a holy nation and a kingdom of priests.

Hi douge,

Yes we agree that it is Israel who will be a holy nation and a kingdom of priests. Then we are also told that the Body of Christ will rule with Christ on His seat of power and authority in the highest realm of God`s great kingdom. To the Body of Christ the Lord promises -

`To Him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on my throne,..` (Rev. 3: 21)

To rule means kingship, and as Christ is the King and High priest, then His Body is of the same order, Kings and Priests. Israel has NEVER been given those two offices together. It is only for rulership in the highest realm that those two offices come together.

Marilyn.

[Joulre2abba]

4 hours ago, douge said:

Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

It is to the children of Israel only to be a holy nation and a kingdom of priests.

I agree with your use of Exod. to show that the Jewish people have a great calling in future... however, your conclusion to limit it only to the children of Israel is in contradiction with what the apostle Peter wrote in his first epistle to all believers that they/we are "a chosen race and a royal priesthood and a holy nation. For you once were not a people but now you are a people of God." unto these Peter also wrote ".. a people for God's own possession; that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness and into His marvelous light."

It is much the same as what the apostle Paul said "you have share in the inheritance of the saints in light for you were delivered out of darkness and translated, transferred into the kingdom of God's dear son in whom is redemption and forgiveness of all sin."

[Marilyn C]

13 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Yes it will be in the new Jerusalem on the new earth and under the new heaven.

And your scriptures to back up your view? Not just scriptures of the New Jerusalem but the actual linkage that connects the Body of Christ there.

Marilyn.

[douge]

18 hours ago, Joulre2abba said:

I agree with your use of Exod. to show that the Jewish people have a great calling in future... however, your conclusion to limit it only to the children of Israel is in contradiction with what the apostle Peter wrote in his first epistle to all believers that they/we are "a chosen race and a royal priesthood and a holy nation. For you once were not a people but now you are a people of God." unto these Peter also wrote ".. a people for God's own possession; that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness and into His marvelous light."

It is much the same as what the apostle Paul said "you have share in the inheritance of the saints in light for you were delivered out of darkness and translated, transferred into the kingdom of God's dear son in whom is redemption and forgiveness of all sin."

Hello

You wrote :  apostle Peter wrote in his first epistle to all believers that they/we are "a chosen race and a royal priesthood and a holy nation.

Peter was not writing this to the church, the body of Christ, but rather to Jews undergoing persecution and was speaking of the new testament promised only to Israel and the earthly Davidic kingdom (1 Peter 1:1)

1 Peter 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Peter is only applying this verse to Israel as can be read in Hosea 2:23

[Joulre2abba]

1 hour ago, douge said:

Hello

You wrote :  apostle Peter wrote in his first epistle to all believers that they/we are "a chosen race and a royal priesthood and a holy nation.

Peter was not writing this to the church, the body of Christ, but rather to Jews undergoing persecution and was speaking of the new testament promised only to Israel and the earthly Davidic kingdom (1 Peter 1:1)

1 Peter 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Peter is only applying this verse to Israel as can be read in Hosea 2:23

Hosea 2:23 referred to the Jews that God had divorced because they had played the harlot. They broke covenant with Him.

However, the gentile unbelievers have also been in the same position in not being the people of God. Then through Christ had become the people of God. Even as the number of Jews had accepted Yeshua HaMashiach and once again became the people of God.

In the unsaved state, there is no difference between the unfaithful Jew walking in darkness and the unbelieving Gentile walking in darkness.

Rm.9:24-26 "Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles…I will call them my people, which were not my people; …And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, [Hosea 1:10], Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God." (See also Hosea 2:23). So, while the words first applied to the actual Children of Israel, or Israelites, Peter now applies them to both Jewish-born and gentile Christians who make up “spiritual Israel”, or “the Israel of God”! Peter could not have made himself any more clear! [concerning Rm.9 and contents, quoted from article "To whom do Peter's words apply?"]

Edited May 1, 2019 by Joulre2abba
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[douge]

22 hours ago, Joulre2abba said:

Hosea 2:23 referred to the Jews that God had divorced because they had played the harlot. They broke covenant with Him.

However, the gentile unbelievers have also been in the same position in not being the people of God. Then through Christ had become the people of God. Even as the number of Jews had accepted Yeshua HaMashiach and once again became the people of God.

In the unsaved state, there is no difference between the unfaithful Jew walking in darkness and the unbelieving Gentile walking in darkness.

Rm.9:24-26 "Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles…I will call them my people, which were not my people; …And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, [Hosea 1:10], Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God." (See also Hosea 2:23). So, while the words first applied to the actual Children of Israel, or Israelites, Peter now applies them to both Jewish-born and gentile Christians who make up “spiritual Israel”, or “the Israel of God”! Peter could not have made himself any more clear! [concerning Rm.9 and contents, quoted from article "To whom do Peter's words apply?"]

Hello

You said : However, the gentile unbelievers have also been in the same position in not being the people of God. Then through Christ had become the people of God.

Which Gentiles ?  The Gentiles that have become the people of God are the new testament believers NOT the Gentiles in the body of Christ.

Romans
 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

The called are new testament believers, the little flock, the believing remnant composed of both Jew and Gentiles.

9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

9:26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

[Marilyn C]

On ‎5‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 5:32 AM, douge said:

Hello

You wrote :  apostle Peter wrote in his first epistle to all believers that they/we are "a chosen race and a royal priesthood and a holy nation.

Peter was not writing this to the church, the body of Christ, but rather to Jews undergoing persecution and was speaking of the new testament promised only to Israel and the earthly Davidic kingdom (1 Peter 1:1)

1 Peter 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Peter is only applying this verse to Israel as can be read in Hosea 2:23

Hi douge,

I also believe that Peter will be ruling the 12 tribes of Israel. However...by the Holy Spirit he was speaking to the Body of Christ for it is ONLY they who will be a ROYAL PRIESTHOOD. That means kingship and priesthood. Israel NEVER had or will have those two offices together.

Marilyn.

[Joulre2abba]

17 hours ago, douge said:

You said : However, the gentile unbelievers have also been in the same position in not being the people of God. Then through Christ had become the people of God.

Which Gentiles ?  The Gentiles that have become the people of God are the new testament believers NOT the Gentiles in the body of Christ.

Which Gentiles? .. I'm surprised that you think that there's a difference. If you think that there is a difference, then you are reading something into it that isn't there in the scriptures.

Rms.9:24-26 is applied to both the Messianic Jews and the Gentiles... likewise is 1 Cor.12:27; Eph.5:30. .. for all in Christ are the children of God, and therefore all are in and of the body of Christ.

Rms.10:12 "For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him."

If you are thinking that what I post is because my position is that the Church is Israel.. I do not believe that. The Bible states that the gentiles have share in the inheritance of the saints (the Jews). That share does not make the gentiles "Israel".

The Bible says that we gentiles are a wild branch grafted in to the Olive tree. So in that we share in the callings that God gave to the Jews. Such as being a priesthood under the leadership of The High Priest.

Edited May 3, 2019 by Joulre2abba
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[Firm Foundation]

On 4/30/2019 at 4:51 PM, douge said:

Hello

Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

It is to the children of Israel only to be a holy nation and a kingdom of priests.

But a gentile could be circumcised and keep the law and become part of Israel.  Ruth and Rahab became part of Israel through faith.