Jehovah's Witnesses

[Debp]

16 minutes ago, Tigger56 said:

Why isn't the main doctrine... simply the belief in the Lord Jesus. The belief in his life, his death, his teachings, the belief that he is the Son of God. Why must it incorporate all other doctrines? This meaning that there can be a variance of beliefs in what his teachings were. Isn't Jesus the root of it all? Christian... one who follows Christ. Can it be that simple or must there be "main doctrines"?

I agree with the Bible mention. Too many liberties have been taken with so many variations of the Bible. I realize that the KJV isn't perfect and has a very added verses and Some words deliberately changed by the translators, but all in all, I have found it to be the most accurate and at least most added or changed things are in italics to show you that it varies from the original Hebrew and Greek.

The main doctrines are essential....for instance, the JW's don't accept the deity of Christ, the Trinity and they base salvation on a combination of things including works.   They reject the Biblical view of the Holy Spirit and Christ's atonement.   As for their translation of the Bible....some words are translated totally differently in order to support their false teachings like denying Christ's deity.    Our translations use different words but the same meanings.   Also, their founder wrote six volumnes and that is where they get their beliefs.

[Debp]

25 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nIh-BZI2rU Walter Martin

Give it fifteen minutes, see if it becomes interesting.  "Who is the real Jesus?" His divinity- His humanity.

2 Corinthians 11:3&4" But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough." 

When I was minoring in missions we used Walter Martin's book Kingdom of the Cults.   Will watch the video later today, got to sign off now!

[BeauJangles]

3 hours ago, Debp said:

 Would anyone like to share how you have ministered to them? 

Yes, I would. In high school, there was a young man who was a member of  the Jehovah's Witness. And on more than one occasion, he would come to our little group of Christian believers, and challenge us to a comparative bible debate. It never went too far, sad to say, and he was pretty adamant and dogmatic in the way he believed. A pretty nice guy and fairly quiet otherwise, keeping mostly to himself.

One day as I was walking to the store for some lunchable items, he approached me and asked if he could join me. Sure, no problem, and we sat in a park near the school eating our meal quietly for a time. Then he asked me, "So Dave, what is this about your Christian faith anyway" Oh, open question, and I wasn't really expecting it, actually. Phil could be fairly argumentative at times, so this took me aback somewhat.  

So prayerfully, I began to share some things in the Word that knowing he was not necessarily in agreement to, but willing to listen. There were some things I also told him about my personal testimony, and reason for coming to Christ. And he sat there without any kind of interruption, which also surprised me, but it was just a one-on-one thing. With the two of us, maybe he was a little more open and less intimidated.  

After I was finished sharing with him, then he commented, "You know, I'm really impressed with what you know about all this." And thanking me, we walked back to campus. Years later, in checking the local newspaper, there was Phil's picture standing by his newly wedded bride, in a matrimonial photo. I read the stats, and couldn't help but notice that he and his wife were married in the Methodist church.

Now, JW's as a rule of thumb never darken the doorway to any church. Thankful to the Lord, that my willingness to share the good news of the gospel reached him that day perhaps, years prior. God bless!

Shalom,, 

David/BeauJangles

P.S. This church was the mainstream, and not United Methodist, just an FYI.     

Edited May 8, 2019 by BeauJangles

[JohnD]

In the 1970's my stepfather (ravaged by the divorce of dear mummy) ← a fate I wouldn't wish on anyone... but that's another story. {sigh}

Anyway, Norm was living in a mobile home and was so dejected he was about to take his own life with a pistol. When there came a knocking at his door and two Jegovah's Witnesses essentially intervened keeping him from suicide. Thank God for that. But would it had been two Christians instead. Because he (now in his 80's) has an emotional bond with The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society that has not been broken in all these years.

He has been prayed for for decades, and I became somewhat of an expert on witnessing to the Witnesses (to get him out of the cult as well as learning more about why I believe what I believe). But ultimately I learned this to get at the truth.

Truth is what it's all about.

"I am the Truth" - Jesus of Nazareth

I managed to get his son (my half brother) out of the Kingdom Hall by pointing out the claims of the WBTS that Jesus returned invisibly to Brooklyn were patently false and anticipated prophetically by the Holy Spirit in the following text of the Bible:

Matthew 24:24–28 (AV)
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

His father Norm on the other hand refused to believe "our interpretation" of the scriptures.

I even witnessed to him with his own Bible the New World Translation and cited how regularly the WBTS had to rewrite passages to accord their extrabiblical theology.

Duane Magnoni headed up a solid Witnessing to the Witnesses web presence (which I've not kept up with over the years and cannot exactly find).  This is all I could find:

http://www.letusreason.org/JW8.htm

He used to be a good resource of outdated NWT bibles to show JW's how their own bibles were in error and how the WBTS had rewritten them.

I also stood arm in arm with protestors of the annual JW Convention at the old Jack Murphy Stadium in San Diego with former JW leaders (circuit overseer in England) the late Peter Barnes author of several books. A very humble man and his wife was a gracious hostess.

https://www.amazon.com/Out-darkness-into-light-Jehovahs/dp/B00071QZ7O

[JohnD]

A quick run down of what Watchtower theology is.

1. There is only one person (individual) who is God Jehovah the creator of Michael the Archangel (who in turn) created all the rest of all things created.

2. Michael the Archangel became Jesus of Nazareth in the incarnation.

3. Jesus died not on a cross but an upright stake.

4. Jesus did not rise from the dead physically (the body of Jesus they claim "we know not what became of it.")

5. He rose spiritually returning to his former Michael the Archangel

JW's believe that only the 144,000 will go to heaven to be with Jehovah for all eternity.

The overflow of believers (who are less worthy) will live on a lower Earth forever.

JW's believe the life is in the blood to the literal extent that blood transfusions are essentially possessions of other persons (akin to demon possession).

They believe saluting flags or fighting for nations (which they enjoy the perks of living in) is false worship. 

They believe in works salvation and works to maintain salvation (which is why they are so prolific pains in the keester at our front doors or leaving their trash on our porches).

Most JW's are sincere. But sincerity is NOT a definition of truth.

I highly recommend being grounded in the truth (Holy Spirit taught Bible study) before crossing swords with them because they are generally well versed in what they believe and in tactics to avoid subjects Christian Defenders raise when confronting them.

As the late Dr. Walter Martin (founder of the Christian Research Institute) used to quip, "Most Christians are so sadly lacking in knowing why we believe what we believe, a typical 90 day wonder from the Watchtower can easily twist them into a doctrinal pretzel."

I used to try to generate local interest in how to answer these guys, but most Christians (sadly) are all too willing to lead worldly lives and pass their personal ministerial responsibilities to the so-called paid professionals (clergy).

[JohnD]

Bottom line:

the way to deal with any cult or aberrant theology is

1. Holy Spirit interpreted / Bible validated Bible study

2. Giving the cultists (etc.) questions they can't answer

and answers they can't question.

They may not believe the truth anyway (never underestimate the human capacity to deny the obvious)

but, they will never darken your doorstep again. Guaranteed. They run from the truth.

And you might have planted a seed of doubt in that which they were so very certain of until the Holy Spirit (through you) 

upset the apple cart.

[BeauJangles]

6 minutes ago, JohnD said:

JW's believe that only the 144,000 will go to heaven to be with Jehovah for all eternity.

My mom, who was really savvy on the 'cults' said to once about communion in a typical Kingdom Hall service. The table with the elements sits there, and no one is partaking of it because: The 144,000 have apparently already passed away so many years ago. So my question of wonder is this: What's the point of being a JW anyway? 

[shortangel]

we haven't been visted by Jw's in Eastern OR yet but I would not take any of their material either,  what I would ask them is do they use the KJV as their Bible???  then maybe have a discussion with them if they do not try to argue

[JohnD]

1 minute ago, shortangel said:

we haven't been visted by Jw's in Eastern OR yet but I would not take any of their material either,  what I would ask them is do they use the KJV as their Bible???  then maybe have a discussion with them if they do not try to argue

Uh, they [used to] use the KJV but it disagreed with their theology too much.

[shortangel]

interesting I didn't know that part