Jehovah's Witnesses

[BeauJangles]

10 minutes ago, JohnD said:

Uh, they [used to] use the KJV but it disagreed with their theology too much.

Oh my! Why does this not surprise me? LOL

[GandalfTheWise]

FWIW, I think my wife and I got black listed by both the JWs and LDS.  We haven't had a single one visit us in close to 20 years in spite of seeing them on our street somewhat frequently.   I think most of the impact we had was via sharing our testimonies rather than debating doctrine.   Rather than directly confronting with arguments they'd likely heard before, I took the approach of asking questions meant to get them thinking about what they really believed and then interjecting with personal stories whenever possible.

For a time, we'd been meeting with an older lady JW (lifelong JW as I recall).  I don't think we made much progress with her but she brought her daughter along a few times.  I remember one time (in a God arranged situation), where the older lady suddenly started feeling ill and asked to use our bathroom.  We had about 10 minutes alone with the daughter to share with her.  Not too long later, we found out the daughter had left the JWs.  The mother was obviously distraught that she was not allowed to pray for her daughter and my understanding is some degree of contact was lost.  My wife said that we could pray for the daughter.   Later, she brought along one of the local leaders to work on us and after that visit, she stopped contacting us.

We also spent some time meeting with LDS missionaries.  I was probably a bad influence because a couple times they stopped by I had the NCAA basketball tournament on and we ended up watching that and munching popcorn rather than discussing anything.  There was one young man we had a big influence on.  We surprised him with a birthday cake that my daughters decorated for him with his name and as I recall sang happy birthday to him.  It's the first time I'd ever seen someone's jaw literally drop and I think he was on the verge of tears.  He was one of the "senior" ones in the town having a few months left on his tour and training the new guys as I recall.  He was unexpectedly transferred out (probably due to our influence) and the LDS people stopped visiting us after that.  We lost touch with him but got a Christmas card later from him signed as "Your Friend,  his-first-name".

In hindsight, it's ironic.  I started meeting with JWs and LDS with the idea I'd share doctrinal truth and refute their errors.  As time went on, I found my personal testimony and just talking matter-of-factly about what God was currently doing in my life probably had a much larger impact.  Doctrinal debates usually turned into a tennis match or snowball fight of words and ideas.  Sharing what I'd seen and experienced put things into a completely different context that had to force them to compare what I was sharing to their lives.  I'd also have to say that these are people both my wife and I genuinely liked and felt deep compassion for.  I started off viewing them as targets to be converted and along the line started to see them as individuals.

[JohnD]

3 minutes ago, GandalfTheWise said:

FWIW, I think my wife and I got black listed by both the JWs and LDS.  We haven't had a single one visit us in close to 20 years in spite of seeing them on our street somewhat frequently.   I think most of the impact we had was via sharing our testimonies rather than debating doctrine.   Rather than directly confronting with arguments they'd likely heard before, I took the approach of asking questions meant to get them thinking about what they really believed and then interjecting with personal stories whenever possible.

For a time, we'd been meeting with an older lady JW (lifelong JW as I recall).  I don't think we made much progress with her but she brought her daughter along a few times.  I remember one time (in a God arranged situation), where the older lady suddenly started feeling ill and asked to use our bathroom.  We had about 10 minutes alone with the daughter to share with her.  Not too long later, we found out the daughter had left the JWs.  The mother was obviously distraught that she was not allowed to pray for her daughter and my understanding is some degree of contact was lost.  My wife said that we could pray for the daughter.   Later, she brought along one of the local leaders to work on us and after that visit, she stopped contacting us.

We also spent some time meeting with LDS missionaries.  I was probably a bad influence because a couple times they stopped by I had the NCAA basketball tournament on and we ended up watching that and munching popcorn rather than discussing anything.  There was one young man we had a big influence on.  We surprised him with a birthday cake that my daughters decorated for him with his name and as I recall sang happy birthday to him.  It's the first time I'd ever seen someone's jaw literally drop and I think he was on the verge of tears.  He was one of the "senior" ones in the town having a few months left on his tour and training the new guys as I recall.  He was unexpectedly transferred out (probably due to our influence) and the LDS people stopped visiting us after that.  We lost touch with him but got a Christmas card later from him signed as "Your Friend,  his-first-name".

In hindsight, it's ironic.  I started meeting with JWs and LDS with the idea I'd share doctrinal truth and refute their errors.  As time went on, I found my personal testimony and just talking matter-of-factly about what God was currently doing in my life probably had a much larger impact.  Doctrinal debates usually turned into a tennis match or snowball fight of words and ideas.  Sharing what I'd seen and experienced put things into a completely different context that had to force them to compare what I was sharing to their lives.  I'd also have to say that these are people both my wife and I genuinely liked and felt deep compassion for.  I started off viewing them as targets to be converted and along the line started to see them as individuals.

Yep.

They are serious about no interference in believing the lies they believe.

 

[missmuffet]

They will not listen. I think it is best to pray for them. I just say " I am not interested" and close the door. 

[JustPassingThru]

5 hours ago, nzkev said:

Is this dangerous or i take this challenge head on? any feedback is appreciated 

Study the pamphlet and be ready to give him the Truth, look for cross references for your answers because the whole Bible speaks about Jesus, they can't change all of their bible so that way you will probably reveal Truth to him that they haven't changed in their bible, ...also, if you feel the Lord is calling you to this, obtain a copy of Kingdom of the Cults by Walter Martin, lots of very useful info, also, visit used bookstores and find a copy of their latest translation and then look for older ones, 70's or before, that are different, ...I have their new translation and then I have an older transaction that clearly states in French:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1

as opposed to the later translation:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was (a) God.  John 1:1

They tell us they have THE best translators, ...so how come the error?

Go slowly with him, ...too much light hurts their eyes and scares them away, ...after you sense there is genuine doubt then drop the bomb, ...the Koine Greek of the New Testament, and..., the Greek language of today does not use the definite article a, ...just Google it, ...the jw's have invented a new Greek language! 

Creating doubt in their bible is the first step. 

I've been blacklisted by them too.  LOL

Lord bless

 

[Debp]

10 hours ago, nzkev said:

Thanks debpThis topic took off , i will share my story here even tho I am a little late in the thread there are some great answers!. Ok will try keep this short as possible....

I have been open on my other threads about my first encounter with them But will cover a quick few points , There unpredictable timing is half of the test ,very unprepared, so i had no bible and there is a group of them, I  thought oh well i will be as honest as i can, So i said things like , Its sad you think believe your not allowed to go to heaven, A kingdom of this world is what satan offers, they Denied Jesus and have accepted his offer, They have denied him by saying he is a created angel and not recognizing him as god, Its not about saying Jehovah its about been antichrist just answers i thought in response to what they where saying, trying to be honest and try get there attention somehow without my bible and without using theirs, anyway, They left very unhappy

The thing is yesterday one of the group came back to talk to me Big Maori Fulla tattoos, I said Hi Gabriel , he looked shocked people don't usually remember my name he said, I just say cos i thought it was interesting and the look on his face, He said can we talk about the truth and opened his book and showed me a verse that he sincerely wanted to talk about truth? i thought amazing, So i said sure  Did you have something in mind or to show me, and he said yes can we talk about this, And it was a pamphlet about who Jesus is. So my rule is usually don't take it because it encourages them to print more etc But he seamed so genuine and sincere, so i took it knowing it would have all the information i need from there perspective to be able to show him. I can show you some of the shocking claims so we could come up with answers together?So took the pamphlet and said i would look at it, and he asked if he was welcome to come back and talk about these things, so I thought how could i say no right , so now i have a big situation on my hand  and thought this is where a community like this could help!

Now this situation was different, i think he genuinely wants to know,I know the dangers involved im not ever going to believe them but i really want to try help him! 

Is this dangerous or i take this challenge head on? any feedback is appreciated 

Hi, please see the videos on YouTube by Dr. Walter Martin.   He is famous for his book Kingdom of the Cults.

I just was looking at his videos and he has four videos about how to reach JW'S.    Bible colleges use his book on Cults.

[valenciarosejjj]

I have a co-worker who's a JW. We have discussions, and at times - intense discussions about our faiths. They have so many false doctrines that I can't keep count. But the 3 main topics we talk about are -the deity of Jesus, the spiritual body and the 144,000. They do not believe that Jesus is God manifested, they do not believe that he was raised in a physical body but instead, as a spirit being, and they believe that only 144,000 of their JW anointed ones will go to heaven as spirit beings. The rest of the JW's (the great crowd) will live on a paradise earth. They also do not believe that the spirit is immortal and when the body dies, the spirit ceases to exist. I once asked my coworker this question: If the Holy Spirit dwells within all born again Christians, does the Holy Spirit ceases to exists when a christian dies? That was months ago and I have yet to receive an answer from him. Whenever I show him scripture that debunks their false doctrines, he always comes us with something  - that's not even biblical (basically a lie) to justify his beliefs. It's truly sad how brain washed they are. All I can do is pray for God to open his eyes and that he would see the organization for the blasphemous cult it really is. 

 

Edited May 9, 2019 by valenciarosejjj

[Zemke]

8 minutes ago, valenciarosejjj said:

I have a co-worker who's a JW. We have discussions, and at times - intense discussions about our faiths. They have so many false doctrines that I can't keep count. But the 3 main topics we talk about are -the deity of Jesus, the spiritual body and the 144,000. They do not believe that Jesus is God manifested, they do not believe that he was raised in a physical body but instead, as a spirit being, and they believe that only 144,000 of their JW anointed ones will go to heaven as spirit beings. The rest of the JW's (the great crowd) will live on a paradise earth. They also do not believe that the spirit is immortal and when the body dies, the spirit ceases to exist. I once asked my coworker this question: If the Holy Spirit dwells within all born again Christians, does the Holy Spirit ceases to exists when a christian dies? That was months ago and I have yet to receive an answer from him. Whenever I show him scripture that debunks their false doctrines, he always comes us with something  - that's not even biblical (basically a lie) to justify his beliefs. It's truly sad how brain washed they are. All I can do is pray for God to open his eyes and that he would see the organization for the blasphemous cult it really is. 

 

I agree, and something I've always wondered about is that Michaels life force was placed in the womb of Mary and according to their doctrine a body without life force is dead, non-existent, then Michael died. Just like the man Jesus is dead forever dead then Michael is dead, so why did Michael have to die?

Is there a special life force for the angels like God has a special life force?  In their doctrine, life force is life force, It can be switched from a cow to a person back and forth without distinction. So what is at the right hand of the Father? A Michael, Jesus, Michael spirit creature? Or what?  How did the blood of a non-existent man atone for anything?

Something they are good at though is using prophecy to engage conversation. Most churches that still have new believers being added to their numbers are prophecy preaching, "Repent, the kingdom of God is at hand, Jesus is coming." type churches. Using escatology in preaching the gospel. Peter on the day of Pentecost for example.

The JWs are schooled in it. Preaching the gospel of the kingdom and following those instructions but their gospel is false. Those that do the same with the true gospel bear fruit. New believers are growth, not people leaving church A for church B. It's good leaving a bad church for a good church but adding to the numbers is people being saved, the second birth, being born again. Praise God for believers coming together but we need to be a people that can make it rain, just like Elijah. He was a man like unto us and he could make it rain. But he went through a time of no rain completely dependant on Gods provision before being called into a major confrontation with leadership and false prophets before a small cloud formed that grew and grew. 

Something to think about anyway.

 

 

 

[BorderCowboy]

On 5/8/2019 at 8:26 AM, shortangel said:

we haven't been visted by Jw's in Eastern OR yet but I would not take any of their material either,  what I would ask them is do they use the KJV as their Bible???  then maybe have a discussion with them if they do not try to argue

Now ya have to be careful of that. I use the KJB as many others, like the Mormans! Yes, actually the first book they give you is the King James, then the book of mormon. They use the one as a lead to the other.

Just my two bits,  JJ

[shortangel]

BoarderCowboy that's true