"Turn or Burn" Is Not My Gospel

[Still Alive]

1 hour ago, Debp said:

Jesus said there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth....that sounds like eternal torment to me.

What it sounds like is sadness (weeping) and anger (Gnashing of teeth). I see nothing in the statement that discusses a length of time. 

When you strap a convicted killer into a gillotine, he may experience sadness and/or anger. But it's not eternal. 

 

http://www.jewishnotgreek.com/

[enoob57]

God clearly says eternal torment

Rev 14:11
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. KJV

and by this it is conscience torment

Luke 16:24
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. KJV

 

[Still Alive]

46 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

I'll spare you scriptural quotes. It's not what you and I think or wish; it's what our Creator and Lord says about our eternal destination rejecting His free gift. God's word is crystal clear about the only "two" places our eternal souls will reside, and for how long. The question was addressed and answered. Detailed descriptions are given for each, Heaven or Hell followed by the Lake of Fire. Unless forgiven and covered by the blood of Christ; an eternal God requires eternal punishment for an eternal decision of rejection and rebellion. 

There's no such thing as Purgatory, paying a priest big bucks to get you prayed out faster; likewise commuted sentences. At you last breath, your last heartbeat; your fate, as well as our loved ones, are sealed in concrete for all eternity. Free will choices both in life and death have consequences whether we want to believe it or not. I choose not to be self-deceived. 

Actually, it is not about geography. It's about condition: Eternal life or final death. And the Lake of fire is the second death. It is actually a reference to 1 Enoch.

The lake of fire is not what many people think it is. https://www.biblestudytools.com/encyclopedias/isbe/lake-of-fire.html

[Who me]

5 hours ago, thomas t said:

Hi all.

Jesus told a doubter (Mt 11:4): the blind receive their sight and the lame walk, lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised up, and the poor have good news preached to them.

This is the opposite of any posts telling a doubter that they should repent or burn in hell.

So I will always distance myself from turn-or-burn posts.

Thomas

 

*It should read "repent or burn", but these words don't give a nice rhyme .

 

Edit: Mt 11:4 uses εὐαγγέλιον in Greek meaning literally "GOOD news" according to Britannica.com.

Yet it is Jesus who talks about the place of the unrepentant dead as being a place of torment.

Hell is a serious subject. Just as a holy, merciful, rightous, just God is a more serious subject.

Is it a small thing to reject Gods laws, to live without any regard for God, or is it a large thing?

 

Tell me what happens to those who do not accept Jesus as saviour and Lord?

[Still Alive]

13 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

God clearly says eternal torment

Rev 14:11
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. KJV

and by this it is conscience torment

Luke 16:24
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. KJV

 

Who is Revelation 14:11 actually talking about?

Luke 16:24 if a parable about Judah. Notice the "rich man's" only described sin is not sharing his wealth. And Lazarus is not described as deserving or otherwise without sin. And, interestingly, Jesus actually raised a man named Lazarus from the grave after telling this parable. 

The most useful concise publication on this subject: http://www.jewishnotgreek.com/

[Still Alive]

5 minutes ago, Who me said:

Yet it is Jesus who talks about the place of the unrepentant dead as being a place of torment.

 

I think he talks about it as being a place of total annihilation. The talk of unquenchable fire nails it. A housefire that is put out by firefighters is only partly burned because the fire was quenched by firefighters. 

When a fire is unquenchable, the house burns down to the ground. The fire then goes out of its' own accord because it has run out of fuel. Jesus message was pretty clear. They are going to be utterly destroyed. Gone. Dead. That is exactly the warning God gave Adam.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Still Alive

[enoob57]

2 minutes ago, Still Alive said:

Who is Revelation 14:11 actually talking about?

It about eternal torment

3 minutes ago, Still Alive said:

Luke 16:24 if a parable about Judah.

You've already left the context of the passage... and it's entire message to individuals named in the context....

[Still Alive]

1 minute ago, enoob57 said:

It about eternal torment

I disagree. Here is some more detailed breakdown: http://rethinkinghell.com/2017/04/05/a-primer-on-revelation-149-11/

[Still Alive]

9 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

You've already left the context of the passage... and it's entire message to individuals named in the context....

What context is that? I'm looking at who Jesus is talking to and the culture within which they live, as well as the parables preceding it. Here is a very good and concise rundown touching on why the rich man had five brothers:

https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/31393/who-are-the-five-brothers-mentioned-in-the-story-of-lazarus-and-the-rich-man-lu

 

There are far more detailed explanations that support the first two mentioned there though...if you are interested in getting into the weeds on it. 

 

Here's an interesting discussion about it (search Lazarus) https://nakedbiblepodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/NB-189-Transcript.pdf

Edited May 13, 2019 by Still Alive

[enoob57]

1 minute ago, Still Alive said:

I disagree. Here is some more detailed breakdown: http://rethinkinghell.com/2017/04/05/a-primer-on-revelation-149-11/

This disagreement lies with the hermeneutic process of contextualizing ….  Why not let God and His Word speak through the process?