Misunderstandings by some about Saving Grace

[Debp]

A few here mistakenly think those of us who are born again by grace through faith and accept Christ's finished work for our salvation are not walking with Jesus.   Over and over they claim we have a license to sin, and therefore are leading sinful lives.

Some even claim that we are taught by pastors not to do any works as we are relying on grace.   Of course, this is untrue.   I've been born again since the early 1970s and have never heard any pastors preaching against doing good works.   Rather we were taught to have a quiet time (prayer/Bible reading) with the Lord so we could grow spiritually.    Of course growing spiritually includes good works, but we know we are not saved or kept saved by good works.   The Holy Spirit is a definite factor in our hearts/lives as we grow spiritually (are sanctified) throughout our lives...it is not just self effort.

I hope the few with the above misunderstandings will stop continually perpetuating these untruths.    We seek to live holy lives but it is something that comes from our hearts that have been changed by the Lord when we were born again.  "But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name; which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." John 1:12-13.

 

[Pekoudah]

2 hours ago, Debp said:

A few here mistakenly think those of us who are born again by grace through faith and accept Christ's finished work for our salvation are not walking with Jesus.   Over and over they claim we have a license to sin, and therefore are leading sinful lives.

Some even claim that we are taught by pastors not to do any works as we are relying on grace.   Of course, this is untrue.   I've been born again since the early 1970s and have never heard any pastors preaching against doing good works.   Rather we were taught to have a quiet time (prayer/Bible reading) with the Lord so we could grow spiritually.    Of course growing spiritually includes good works, but we know we are not saved or kept saved by good works.   The Holy Spirit is a definite factor in our hearts/lives as we grow spiritually (are sanctified) throughout our lives...it is not just self effort.

I hope the few with the above misunderstandings will stop continually perpetuating these untruths.    We seek to live holy lives but it is something that comes from our hearts that have been changed by the Lord when we were born again.  "But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name; which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." John 1:12-13.

 

You are speaking here about having a living hope....which is often confused with faith. We can grow slowly into righteousness....by following Christ from a distance. There are different glories to the sun, moon, and stars. For most people the daylight is too bright.

 

Most people are looking for an easy way...for the free stuff from God. Very few are willing to pay the price of a follower of Christ. But many follow at a "safe" distance. Large crowds always followed Jesus. The bulk of the church...who are trying to be faithful...are like these. There will always be but a few who enter into Christ by the faith OF Christ. Jesus never lies. Those who abide in Christ will always be a tiny flock.

But many will seek to follow from a distance. These do so by maintaining a hope....a living hope.

Hope is to maturity what faith is to purity.

I hope that this will clear up those misunderstandings.

We are indeed saved by hope....like the slow race of a tortoise...that is if we remain faithful till the end. Then there is the walk of faith...which is more like the race of a hare. But faithfulness is required for these as well....as the story of the tortoise and the hare aptly conveys.

Humility is key. Let the cautious and feeble among us not claim more than they should. God is looking for humility...not religious defenses.

 

Edited May 15, 2019 by Pekoudah

[Pekoudah]

We are to abide these three...

Faith, hope and love.

One who follows the Lord closely abides all three. One who follows from a safer distance abides hope and is learning to love.

Faith..according to Jesus and Paul...does the impossible. This is not to be confused with religious beliefs. Religious beliefs never did anything but label a person according to their opinions. There is NO power in human beliefs.

 

But with Christ ALL things are possible. A person of faith...the faith OF Jesus... lives in this impossibility...to walk as Jesus walked. By faith we enter into the realm of the Spirit and are kept from the temptations of this world. THIS is the saving grace of God....which is by faith. Faith takes us to be with God so that we walk in Him and He walks in us. What the present church lacks is faith.

Edited May 15, 2019 by Pekoudah

[Pekoudah]

34 minutes ago, PromisesPromises! said:

This is the kind of generalization that leads to arguments, I believe.  You may not mean to say that all believing Christians lack faith, but that is what you are saying. I am a member of the church, and I certainly do not lack faith--or hope or love.  I am abiding in Christ and He in me because I was saved by grace through faith, and now I have a living hope of glory.  

1 Peter 1:3... Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!  In His great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.

I know...whereas it should lead to repentance. That's the problem. We're contending with the flesh instead of striving together for the faith of the gospel. We can't abide the love of God AND our own self-love too.

Large crowds always followed Jesus. But the disciples could fit into a small boat. Many are called but few are chosen.

Now if you ask a believer which group he/she belongs to...ALL will say they are in the intimate group. All except those who are ACTUALLY in the small group and have learned humility. So we see that people exaggerate and lie. That's the way of humanity...if we want to be honest about it.

 

Ask a person which person he/she identifies with in the parable of the Pharisee and the publican. The self-righteous will always pick the better option for themselves because of self-love. (love of self) But the opposite will always be true. The real publican would say he is a fool like the Pharisee in the story. But the real hypocrites would claim to be like the publican.

 

Now this kind of understanding will not reach many. I expect more "oy veys"...such is the way of humanity.

 

I say.. oy vey...

Edited May 15, 2019 by Pekoudah

[Pekoudah]

31 minutes ago, PromisesPromises! said:

Again you generalize. 

No need to generalize...watch who reacts and how to what I am saying. People put themselves into a category so that they don't even perceive what they're doing. If I said nothing happens by accident (say like creation)..would I still be generalizing!

 

Look deeper.

Edited May 15, 2019 by Pekoudah

[Pekoudah]

8 minutes ago, pinacled said:

Good morning,

The intimate group reminds me of the birds in a tree singing of the healing leaves.

Blessings Always

Good morning to you! May we all as birds of a feather strive to sing together ....with ALL the brethren (I hope I'm not generalizing here )....all they that are called in the Lord. We seek to be one with Christ. We strive to enter in and walk the narrow way...together. We are members one of another. let us strive to enter into His rest...in the unity of faith striving together for the faith of the gospel. Not just any faith or belief....but the faith that brings the grace of God!

 

Peace

[In Him]

3 hours ago, Pekoudah said:

You are speaking here about having a living hope....which is often confused with faith. We can grow slowly into righteousness....by following Christ from a distance. There are different glories to the sun, moon, and stars. For most people the daylight is too bright.

 

Most people are looking for an easy way...for the free stuff from God. Very few are willing to pay the price of a follower of Christ. But many follow at a "safe" distance. Large crowds always followed Jesus. The bulk of the church...who are trying to be faithful...are like these. There will always be but a few who enter into Christ by the faith OF Christ. Jesus never lies. Those who abide in Christ will always be a tiny flock.

But many will seek to follow from a distance. These do so by maintaining a hope....a living hope.

Hope is to maturity what faith is to purity.

I hope that this will clear up those misunderstandings.

We are indeed saved by hope....like the slow race of a tortoise...that is if we remain faithful till the end. Then there is the walk of faith...which is more like the race of a hare. But faithfulness is required for these as well....as the story of the tortoise and the hare aptly conveys.

Humility is key. Let the cautious and feeble among us not claim more than they should. God is looking for humility...not religious defenses.

 

With no pretense that I’ve arrived, but may I express great appreciation for the “meat of the most mature-kind”? You once said, “The truth cuts sometimes to the point of offense to get at what is in the way of spiritual growth. Those who don’t see that as necessary also don’t see the offense as constructive.” I thank the Lord for the powerful encouraging words.

Maturity IN purity!

[Behold]

3 hours ago, Pekoudah said:

 

 

We are indeed saved by hope....

We are not saved by "hope".   Hope is just a word in a dictionary, ...... Christ is The Living Savior, and you are saved by God through Him.

Hope is a 4 letter word, and the Blood of Jesus is a real substance, poured out on a literal cross by God who died as Christ on a Cross.

A person can hope they win the lottery.   Are they saved?    A person can hope they are cured of cancer before they die... does this hope save their soul?

Faith is not Hope.    Hope is not Faith.    God accepts Faith, not Hope, to save you.   you are "Justified by faith"......not hope.

"well, what about that verse that says that we are saved by hope". ?   Well what about it?  Did hope die on a cross or did Jesus?  So, you have to use on occasion, some brain food, some common sense, and some actual logic,  and not always try to make the entire bible teach one verse that you didn't understand to begin with..... Legalist.

People hope their favorite football team wins the Superbowl or the World Cup.   What has this to do with the Cross?

We as believers don't "hope" we are saved, we KNOW we are saved because God said we ARE, if we have been born again.  John in 1 John 5 says......"that you may KNOW KNOW KNOW that you HAVE HAVE HAVE Eternal life" RIGHT NOW.............not that you hope you might, or hope you will someday if you live right and confess every sin, and do penance, and endure to the end.

"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."     Notice that the context of faith and hope in this verse is SUBSTANCE.   "Substance" means something that is not imaginary, but >"REAL". So, this is not the same as hoping you make it into heaven if you have done more good deeds then bad ones, as if God is some sort of digital scale and Hes counting your good works vs your Bad on His heavenly scale, and if you have more good works then you barely slide into heaven by the skin of your own self righteous works.    And trust me when i tell you that you'll never make it into heaven by your works.

Consider that if your works could make you acceptable to God then Jesus DIDN'T HAVE TO DIE ON A CROSS.     UNDERSTAND ?

Jesus said, you "MUST BE BORN AGAIN".....and that is not a hope, that is a fact of  COMPLETED Redemption that has to be completed as a literal occurrence inside YOU,.... and its not what you hope happened....It must be a reality that has occurred.   "you MUST BE born again"...... this is not a hope....this is a command that is required by Christ that you must have as your "new birth", or you will not go to heaven.

Edited May 15, 2019 by Behold

[Pekoudah]

3 hours ago, PromisesPromises! said:

When I pointed out your generalizations, I was referring to your presumptions about an entire group of people. 

 

I leave it to Keanu to explain further....

www.facebook.com/416519421790050/photos/a.535160486592609/2044123365696306/?type=3&theater

[missmuffet]

8 hours ago, Debp said:

A few here mistakenly think those of us who are born again by grace through faith and accept Christ's finished work for our salvation are not walking with Jesus.   Over and over they claim we have a license to sin, and therefore are leading sinful lives.

Some even claim that we are taught by pastors not to do any works as we are relying on grace.   Of course, this is untrue.   I've been born again since the early 1970s and have never heard any pastors preaching against doing good works.   Rather we were taught to have a quiet time (prayer/Bible reading) with the Lord so we could grow spiritually.    Of course growing spiritually includes good works, but we know we are not saved or kept saved by good works.   The Holy Spirit is a definite factor in our hearts/lives as we grow spiritually (are sanctified) throughout our lives...it is not just self effort.

I hope the few with the above misunderstandings will stop continually perpetuating these untruths.    We seek to live holy lives but it is something that comes from our hearts that have been changed by the Lord when we were born again.  "But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name; which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." John 1:12-13.

 

God knows our heart which is priority so it does not matter what fellow human beings think of us. We speak the truth about God that is all we need to do.