Misunderstandings by some about Saving Grace

[gordon7777]

1 hour ago, Sonshine☀️ said:

True but we do.

If you make such a statement, then surely you will give example and confession, of all the evil you were ashamed of?

Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

1 Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:
4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:

Jeremiah 3:3 Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no latter rain; and thou hadst a whore's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed.

Jeremiah 6:15 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore they shall fall among them that fall: at the time that I visit them they shall be cast down, saith the Lord.

Jeremiah 8:12 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore shall they fall among them that fall: in the time of their visitation they shall be cast down, saith the Lord.

[gordon7777]

6 minutes ago, Sonshine☀️ said:

Even Paul had troubles with sin.  None of us are perfect because we all have been born with Adam’s sin nature.  Read below of Paul’s struggles with sin:

 

Romans 7:19-25 King James Version (KJV)

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Romans 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Now take notice, Paul shows the excuses, how he delights in the law of God after the inward man. Evil is present when we would do good. His is because Paul is describing that first covenant, and the first people. They have a zeal after God, but not according to knowledge. They also delight to know God's ways, but everyone without Chriost(most if not all on earth) are brought into captivity t the law of sin in their members, and speaking of members this means you sin against the Lord..

Romans 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 FOR I DELIGHT IN THE LAW OF GOD AFTER THE INWARD MAN:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Romans 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

Isaiah 58:1 Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.
2 YET THEY SEEK ME DAILY, AND DELIGHT TO KNOW MY WAYS, as a nation that did righteousness, and forsook not the ordinance of their God: they ask of me the ordinances of justice; THEY TAKE DELIGHT IN APPROACHING TO GOD.
3 Wherefore have we fasted, say they, and thou seest not? wherefore have we afflicted our soul, and thoutakest no knowledge? Behold, in the day of your fast ye find pleasure, and exact all your labours.
4 Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high.

1 Corinthians 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Again talking about no good thing in the flesh?  We are not known after the flesh any more. You are not in the flesh, if the Spirit of God was in you.(these questions and discussions place doubt of that )..

2 Corinthians 5:16    Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

Romans 8:9    But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

[gordon7777]

Who is blessed, according to Christ and not sonshine or any alike to that way? The poor in spirit, the mourners, the meek, not the exalted, not the happy, not the ones who feel high and mighty, the ones who thirst for righteousness, which is the ones who believe in Christs way to lay our lives down, not keep our lives in the way of man, but the merciful, the pure in heart, not the ones who speak out against Christ's teaching to justify their own impurity, the peace makers, the ones who do much more than sinners, the persecuted, as they follow Christ faithfully, or would not be persecuted for righteousness sake would they ? When you are reviled for the sake of Christ, this is doing well, this is not possible for these so called "saved" people, but they should have walked in the shoes before them, the prophets persecuted till their deaths, and then Christ and the Holy Apostles of the Lord the same way, bearing about always in the body the death o the Lord Jesus until beheaded for this same testimony of Christ..

Matthew 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

With this same righteous way in this same chapter in mind, we are to exceed the first way, we do not hate our enemy, we love them. This is to be the children of God, to not do these things is to still be the children of their lying father the devil. If we love only as sinners, give and do only as sinners, what more do you do than the first covenant? Get real, be perfect as your Father in Haven, or be reprobate as your father in hell..

Matthew 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

2 Timothy 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

[Behold]

20 hours ago, Firm Foundation said:

Nobody cares what a legalist does, because it's not a Bible word, and your legalist this and that monologue is just your opinion.

Legalist will agree with you, but Christians will feel otherwise.

What a legalist does, is try to work their way into heaven, and they come to forums like this one to try to convince people they can "lose it".

This is harmful to other believers.

[Behold]

17 hours ago, childoftheking said:

 

 

Do you really believe someone could just cast out demons by using the Name of Yeshua, and not actually be filled with the Holy Spirit?  

In the context of what you are saying, I believe it will be PREACHERS claiming things when in reality they taught "False Doctrines," "man's idealisms,"" lived like they had a license to sin,""did not fully receive forgiveness because they never gave forgiveness."   

The worst part about gaining knowledge in God, is that it becomes a responsibility to both sharing that knowledge, and to live that knowledge. 

 

 

 

Let me answer you one at at time.

Yes, its possible to cast devils out, "in Jesus Name" and you are not born again, and not saved.  As a matter of fact, "Depart from me, I never KNEW YOU", is a direct reference to religious people who were casting unclean spirits out, using Jesus's Name, and when they died and met Jesus He told them to "depart, i never knew you".

And why?   Because being born again, is WHY Jesus accepts you as a family member.   You are BORN into His family.   And if you are not, then "depart from ME, i never KNEW YOU"

"knew you".....this is a direct reference to being in God's family......That is WHY Jesus would "KNOW you".  And if you are not BORN AGAIN, you can cast devils out, walk on water, and build 100 Churches, and die nailed to a TREE, and you will meet Jesus and He will say....>"depart from me, i NEVER KNEW YOU".

THIS IS WHY JESUS SAYS......"YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN".......as nothing else matters, as compared to this.... not works, not ministry, as its all for nothing, if you are not born again.

 

2.  You mentioned "because they never gave forgiveness", as your idea of why God would save you....  And so,  what does that have to do with Salvation?    Does God save you because you are good enough or forgiving enough to be accepted?........NO.   He accepts you because you did what He told you to do, you did HIS WORK......and what is God's work... John 6:29 "BELIEVE ON THE ONE HE SENT".....This is the "work of God"......that is FAITH.........that is "justification by Faith", and for NO OTHER REASON< will God accept you.  =  "you must be BORN AGAIN".  "Faith in Christ".   "you MUST be born again".
"":
 

3.  Oh, i take my calling very seriously.  I have taught all over the world, i have dealt with all sorts of heretics for 2.5 decades.   I know what they teach, and what they think, and what scriptures they will use to try to prove their lies.   I however, only teach what Paul taught.  I understand it, and i teach it.  Heretics can't teach Paul, because they live in Matthew, James, and Hebrews.   

There is a bible word, that is found in the New Testament, in the KJV version... Its the word "dung". Philippians 3:8.  Other bibles are more polite and change this word to "GARBAGE"...  This word is how Paul describes trying to be accepted by God, by lifestyle, works, keeping the 10 commandments".....  That's how He describes it.   And the reason He does, is because Paul, and I, and millions of true believers, understand that no matter how good we are, how clean we live, ...what is  ALL THIS  as compared to the SINLESS SON OF GOD ?      What is all our good deeds, and good holy living, as compared to the SINLESS SON OF GOD?

So, a real believer, understands this, and that is why they dont get caught up and carried away with a lot of ranting and raving about keeping the law, and doing Good Works, and confessing sin, and  following the 10 commmandments......as what IS all this that we do, when we compare it to the SINLESS SON OF THE LIVING GOD ?

Answer ? ... Its a big FAT ZERO.

Sure, you are to live holy, and present your body a living sacrifice, and be holy as God is holy, but just how HOLY are you when you do all that as compared to the SINLESS SON OF GOD ?

And when a legalist finally realizes this, then they stop their nonsense about "works and 10 commandments", and finally realize the Cross and God as Jesus THE Christ dying on it, and how its only HIS Righteousness that God will accept, that is given to us......and THAT is Salvation. "the GIFT of righteousness".

[Behold]

1 hour ago, gordon7777 said:

 

With this same righteous way in this same chapter in mind, we are to exceed the first way, we do not hate our enemy, we love them. This is to be the children of God, to not do these things is to still be the children of their lying father the devil. If we love only as sinners, give and do only as sinners, what more do you do than the first covenant? Get real, be perfect as your Father in Haven, or be reprobate as your father in hell..

 

Ive been in ministry for a while, and ive watched a lot of "christians", and i can tell you that there are many "religious but lost" people who are better at "living holy", then many who are born again.

As a matter of fact, these "religious but lost", are often found doing the acutal work of real Christians, while most, not all, but most Christians leave their Christianity inside the Church, after practicing it for that 90 min session, once a week.

"ok, the sermon is over, LETS GO EAT, and what is on Cable ??????.....any good movies.....is that new (R-Rated)  Lady Gaga "A STar Is Born"....on Today !!!!!! """ And OMG< "Game of Thrones" (R-Rated) had its last episode last night........this is SO SAD".....

There are a lot of "religious but lost" people who are doing the work of real believers, while real believers are doing the work of NO ONE , except to attend to their own carnal desires.

So, all of this, is meaningless. And that is because God does not accept anyone into his family based on their personal "worthiness", as all have fallen short, all are sinners.

The Cross is God's sole method to separate the lost from the saved.   There is no other method.   No works are accepted. No lifestyle.  No point of view.. No Opinion. =  "you must be born again".

God is the One who created the way Salvation SAVES, and Jesus is THE Way".  And there is NO other.

[LadyKay]

On 5/15/2019 at 8:08 AM, Pekoudah said:

Ask a person which person he/she identifies with in the parable of the Pharisee and the publican. The self-righteous will always pick the better option for themselves because of self-love. (love of self) But the opposite will always be true. The real publican would say he is a fool like the Pharisee in the story. But the real hypocrites would claim to be like the publican.

 

I don't know about all of that. But as for me. I do consider myself to be like the Israelites following Moses out of Egypt.  God showed and did great, wonderful things for them and provided for them. But at the first hint of trouble, they all freak out and start complaining they are going to die!  Yep, that is me. God has done wonderful things for me and has provided for me.  But still  at the first hint of trouble coming I freak out! Just like the Israelites did. 

I'm not sure if this has anything to do with the topic. I just wanted to share. 

[frienduff thaylorde]

8 hours ago, Debp said:

That is your personal opinion as well.   Your opinion that they were saved.   My opinion is that they weren't saved to begin with to live in open sin  and claim they were in God's hand.

This debate might be of some good interest .

Those who never received the HOLY GHOST were never truly saved .    I think we can agree on that .

And those who do receive the HOLY GHOST and are made partakers of His righteousness of HIM,    and were washed clean .    WELL WE KNOW they were .

I mean ONLY JESUS can wash us clean . RIGHT .     Can we make us clean .     NOPE .

I bet we all agree on this .

SO how come we don't agree with PETER who even said they KNEW the TRUE WAY of RIGHTEOUNESS and HAD BEEN WASHED CLEAN .  AND STILL FELL AWAY .

YEP .      IT sure does happen and it happens way more often than folsk like to admit .

I bet we all agree that tis grace alone that we are saved .    

But how come folks don't like this ,    LOOKING DILIGENTLY lest any man FAILS of the grace of GOD ,  lest any root of bitterness springs up IN YOU BELEIVER

Instead of basking in the beauty of the LORD and His power ,    many sat under men and never learned the whole reason behind the cross to begin with .

And if we aint learning that ,    folks aint gonna make it now are they .   Satan knows how to trick and allure .  And he will point folks to another cross , another jesus

HE WILL DO IT .

Because satan knows ,   if we learn the TRUE CHRIST and are built up IN HIM and BY HIM and made wise unto salvation through our faith ,  

He cant touch us , he nor his men can deceive those lambs who were trained up in the way that they should GO .

Satan will happily let all believe all Is well  when in fact IT AINT .

If we are truly of CHRIST then we would KNOW we must follow HIM , continue in HIM , HEED HIM faithfully to the end .

Most already got crowns on their heads ,  most just sit in darkness of sin and await what they think will be salvation .  BUT IT WILL NOT BE SO .

IF JESUS , paul and others had the mindset and taught GO and SIN NO MORE .  WE BETTER CONTINUE IN that dire serious and grave mindset .

For all men are in bodies of flesh and contrary it is ,  and if left to feel comfort in sin THEY ARE DOOMED TO PERDITON .    And satan  knows that too .

Remember satan came not to set the captives to sin free , HE IS the one who IS that head .      Thus when we hear of a jesus and a gospel

that allows any kind of easing up about sin and error or those in it ,    or make all seem as we just cant outsin Gods love ,

And point to A CHRIST that is unable to perform the very duty HE CAME TO DO ,    then we point them to men and darkness and not to CHRIST and LIGHT . 

[frienduff thaylorde]

Most have been taught only half the reason of why JESUS came to the CROSS and because of this they are drowning in sin daily and believe not that they have power over it .

For most have sat under men who for far too long have preached acronyms , instead of JESUS CHRIST .

They have sat under men who have given them their hearts desires .    TO FEEL FREE but not from SIN , but while still IN SIN .

There was a reason JESUS was very grave and warned the lady and men who had repented ,   He told them they are forgiven , but GO and SIN NO MORE , lest even a WORSE thing

EVEN WORSE thing come upon you .  NOW what could be worse than be stoned to death ,  or what could be worse than being paralyzed .

And why did JAMES say what to do for those who have erred .    

What did paul say to do .

So how come we DONT DO IT .    cause we been lulled to sleep by men .  

Instead they sit under men who have to explain away what something plainly says in order to support their acryonm.

Instead of just reading and learning the Words which are OF and support CHRIST .

They point to men ,  we point to Christ .

Is it any wonder the bible is so hard for so many to understand .     Preachers did this .

I mean it flat out says in peter that they were washed clean and KNEW the way of righteousness and then fell away and were over come .

YET men say no this is not what it means .   NO WONDER PEOPLE cant understand the bible , no wonder they hardly read it and need men to explain it .

IT WAS A SET UP BY SATAN to make what is simple seem as confusing .   Folks got no real learning cause the bible just seems so hard for them to grasp.

MEN DID THIS .    Many sat under men .    I mean if I say the sky is black and then a man comes along and says NO its not possible   so I must have meant WHITE .

THEN NO WONDER THE BIBLE IS SO HARD FOR SO MANY .   NO wonder they sit under and adore what they THINK are ever so clever and wise men .

Its all a sham and its going to destroy all who sit under them .   

[frienduff thaylorde]

The most dangerous men are those who teach the bible cannot be understood without some man made wisdom to help make it clear .

FLEE these men and women of falsehoods .

WHY on earth do I need or we need to approach scripture with an tool of mans wisdom that men created LONG ago to UNDERSTAND the BIBLE .

WHO INSPIRED those letters .       WHO inspired those words .      GOD DID , THE SPIRIT MOVED them .

SO GUESS WHAT ,      I FULLY BELEIVE the SPIRIT can give me what I need to understand and know about the VERY WORDS IT INSPIRIED .   YEP PONDER ON THAT TILL THE COWS COME HOME .   they are lying to many of us .  they are lying and this is why deceptions only get worse .  ERROR once in , will not abide alone .

You know what error brings with it , ONLY MORE ERROR .    As with leaven too ,  it wont abide alone ,  once in and not corrected , IT WILL BRING ONLY MORE LEAVEN

to whole church is filled full of it .