chrysalis09 Posted June 8, 2019 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 93 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 206 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/26/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted June 8, 2019 Just want to mention for those who don't know that Bible Hub is a great internet reference tool where you can look up a verse and it gives a comparison of many translations. Completely free, how nice 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis1209 Posted June 8, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 347 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,468 Content Per Day: 2.70 Reputation: 5,378 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted June 8, 2019 Makes me wonder about the stern warning the Lord gave? Whom, when and how could someone add or take away from scripture? God is not the author of 'confusion', with 300+ different versions and translations, there is confusion. Ever follow along reading your translation of the Bible while the preacher was reading from a different translation from the pulpit (or Bible study)? Not singing off the same sheet of music causes confusion. Revelation 22:18 (KJV) For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19. And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted June 8, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,127 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,855 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted June 8, 2019 10 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said: Makes me wonder about the stern warning the Lord gave? Whom, when and how could someone add or take away from scripture? God is not the author of 'confusion', with 300+ different versions and translations, there is confusion. Ever follow along reading your translation of the Bible while the preacher was reading from a different translation from the pulpit (or Bible study)? Not singing off the same sheet of music causes confusion. Revelation 22:18 (KJV) For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19. And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. to be technical keep in mind that what we consider is the Bible is many letters written at different times to different people so that warning in Revelation pertains only to that book... Part of the reasons of such confusion pertains to copywrite laws.... if you are going to sell a new version of the Bible your version has to have a certain number of words that differ from earlier copywrited versions. I would personally say that the main reason for so many different versions is based on money.... from large publishing companies.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis1209 Posted June 8, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 347 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,468 Content Per Day: 2.70 Reputation: 5,378 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted June 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, other one said: to be technical keep in mind that what we consider is the Bible is many letters written at different times to different people so that warning in Revelation pertains only to that book... Part of the reasons of such confusion pertains to copywrite laws.... if you are going to sell a new version of the Bible your version has to have a certain number of words that differ from earlier copywrited versions. I would personally say that the main reason for so many different versions is based on money.... from large publishing companies.... I agree. My research indicates to obtain a copyright, it has to be at least 15% different, different than what? 15% + 15% + 15% + 15% = you get the idea. I can't prove it but it make sense; the Bible being the best selling Book of all time, there's incentive to turn it into a Cash Cow. I found it interesting which translations of the Bible were copyrighted and which several were not, since the RV of 1881 when all these modern translations began. If anyone is interested; there is a great little booklet available for free about Bible Versions at http://www.stewartonbibleschool.org/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firm Foundation Posted June 8, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 4 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,280 Content Per Day: 1.23 Reputation: 854 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted June 8, 2019 2 hours ago, Takoda said: If you are fed by the KJV then by all means stick with it. However the others are neither hurriedly copied or incomplete. They certainly are, which is why they removed some scriptures and discredited others. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GandalfTheWise Posted June 8, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 24 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,459 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 2,377 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/23/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted June 8, 2019 Right now, the field of NT text studies is undergoing a revolution comparable to what Gutenberg's printing press did for the easy production of books. Go back 50 years ago, and only a handful of scholars with access to museums could actually see ancient NT manuscripts. Now, many of these manuscripts are being digitized for anyone to see. The Center for Studies of NT Manuscripts (http://www.csntm.org) is one organization using high quality photography and digitization to bring these manuscripts to any scholar as well as the masses. Christians can now see for themselves what these manuscripts look like. In addition, software has been written which does for textual studies what a spreadsheet does for accounting. This software (now about 15 to 20 years old) is being used by scholars to compare and collate differences between manuscripts. In the next decade or so, it is likely that the entire NT will have all known manuscripts available online in both image and text format. I'd encourage people to go look at images of these manuscripts and books for themselves. It brings to life many of the esoteric discussions Christians have about such things. In case anyone is interested, here are links to some manuscripts and books related to the Textus Receptus. Note that there is no single authoritative Textus Receptus. There are a series of editions based on preceding ones which are all now referred to by the same name with minor variations in text between them. Note that the artwork in the printed books (Erasmus' and Beza's versions) is fairly standard medieval fare for published books though it might be somewhat disturbing and occultic in appearance for those not used to such things. Erasmus' 1st Edition of the Textus Receptus from 1516. Note that it is a parallel text Greek/Latin New Testament. It is a printed book; not a manuscript. http://www.csntm.org/PrintedBook/ViewBook/ErasmusNovumInstrumentum (first page of Matthew is here: http://images.csntm.org/PublishedWorks/Erasmus_1516/Erasmus1516_0001a.jpg) Beza's 1588 version of the Greek New Testament. His 1598 version was likely used by the KJV translators. This 1588 version is a parallel text version with Greek and two Latin versions (which my best guesses are a new Latin translation which might be Erasmus' and the vulgate). Note that the exact text used by the KJV was not documented by the translators and does not exactly follow any of Beza's editions exactly but likely chose either footnotes or alternative manuscripts in some places. In 1894, Scrivener attempted to reconstruct the text used by the KJV translators. Scrivener's version is also called Textus Receptus. Note that Beza's version too is a printed book; not a manuscript. Note the presence of footnotes discussing alternative readings from different manuscripts as well as comments comparing the translations. http://www.csntm.org/PrintedBook/ViewBook/TestamentumNovum (first page of Matthew is here: http://images.csntm.org/PublishedWorks/Bezae_NT_1588/Bezae_NT_1588_0001a.jpg) Here are links to some images of the actual physical manuscripts used by Erasmus himself. Note that these are all a class of writing called minuscules (which are basically the equivalent of a combination shorthand and cursive for Greek which facilitated quick writing and copying.) GA1 (everything except Revelation) http://www.csntm.org/manuscript/View/GA_1 Minuscule 2814 (Revelation except ending) http://digital.bib-bvb.de/R/CHYISEJ6MP8BE9DQAKDR3K51FK4NB92S7HEFT3AB7RCQVC5RV6-01383?func=results-jump-full&set_entry=000005&set_number=003225&base=UBA This is a combination of Revelation and a commentary on it. Note that the very end of Revelation was not written out in this manuscript. As far as I can tell, that is on the righthand reading side of physical page 94 (called folio 94 recto or 94R). Thus, Erasmus had to translate from the Latin Vulgate to Greek to create these verses. GA2 (Gospels) http://www.csntm.org/manuscript/View/GA_2 Miniscule 2815 (Acts and Epistles) Couldn't find a link to it. At university of Basel. Miniscule 2816 (Acts and Epistles) Couldn't find a link to it. At university of Basel. GA7 (Gospels) couldn't find a link. At national library of France. Miniscule 817 (Gospels) couldn't find a link. At university of Basel. In contrast to the miniscules, here are links to two majuscules which are about 700 to 800 years older. Majuscules are basically careful printing. This should give a good sense of the differences in methods of reproduction by scribes. Both of these are written on parchment (which is basically carefully processed leather or some other type of animal skin) which is a long lasting material compared to papyrus. Both of these manuscripts were likely professionally produced and probably fairly expensive at the time. Both of these include the OT (Septuagint) and NT. GA01 (Sinaiticus) http://www.csntm.org/manuscript/View/GA_01 http://codexsinaiticus.org/en/ GA02 (Alexandrinus) http://codexsinaiticus.org/en/ http://www.bl.uk/manuscripts/Viewer.aspx?ref=royal_ms_1_d_viii_fs001r 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne Posted June 8, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 107 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 3,820 Content Per Day: 1.30 Reputation: 4,806 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted June 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, GandalfTheWise said: Right now, the field of NT text studies is undergoing a revolution comparable to what Gutenberg's printing press did for the easy production of books. Go back 50 years ago, and only a handful of scholars with access to museums could actually see ancient NT manuscripts. Now, many of these manuscripts are being digitized for anyone to see......…………...……………...... I shortened your post for quoting's sake. Thanks for this invaluable information. I'm going to look at it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegaman 3.0 Posted June 8, 2019 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 57 Topic Count: 1,546 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 10,320 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 12,323 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1951 Share Posted June 8, 2019 On 6/7/2019 at 8:11 AM, Footprint said: Matthew 17:21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting. This verse is not in the NIV. What scripture do we suppose the devil would like to take out from the word of God? the one that talks about about prayer and fasting, so no one can cast him out. but the NIV does have a footnote attached to v 20 which says: e 20 Some manuscripts insert verse 21: But this kind never comes out except by prayer and fasting The editors, I suppose, decide to go with more plentiful and more ancient manuscripts than we available to the translators of the KJV. I am not an any position as an archaeologist or Bible scholar to say they are wrong in that assessment, at least they have the honesty to point our that some manuscripts have the prayer and fasting verse. Whether it was in the original or not, I do not know. If I ever run across a stubborn case of demon possession, I will pray and fast, it cannot hurt! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne Posted June 8, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 107 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 3,820 Content Per Day: 1.30 Reputation: 4,806 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted June 8, 2019 2 hours ago, chrysalis09 said: Just want to mention for those who don't know that Bible Hub is a great internet reference tool where you can look up a verse and it gives a comparison of many translations. Completely free, how nice I love Biblehub and use it all the time. Another good tool they have is that for each individual verse you look at, they give other Biblical references that support and give further information to your verse in question. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegaman 3.0 Posted June 9, 2019 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 57 Topic Count: 1,546 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 10,320 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 12,323 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1951 Share Posted June 9, 2019 3 hours ago, chrysalis09 said: Just want to mention for those who don't know that Bible Hub is a great internet reference tool where you can look up a verse and it gives a comparison of many translations. Completely free, how nice Yes, that is a good resource, there are many others listed on this page (it is a link you can click): 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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