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iamlamad

Days of great tribulation

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3 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

What Antiochus did does not cause desolation nor does it cause great tribulation.

When the king of the north command his armed forces to place the abomination that causes desolation,it will be to kill many people.

https://biblehub.com/daniel/11-44.htm

The prophecy has nothing whatsoever to do with Antiochus and porky pig.

Have you never read the book of Maccabees? I assure you, many died during those days. There were unspeakable and despicable things down to Israel then. 

In case you missed it, Antiochus became a TYPE of the Antichrist Beast in Revelation.  

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, The Light said:

Hi Iamlamad,

I must admit that I have never seen anyone so confused about Revelation. The pre-wrathers are correct, the Tribulation is before the 6th seal and I believe in a pretrib rapture.

 

That's your take; mine is identical but I think it is you who fit this description. 

You are pulling the first 5 seals out of their context and have no understanding of their intended meaning.  What part of the church sent out with the gospel is "tribulation?" What part of war to stop the gospel a part of "tribulation?" What part of famines to stop the gospel is a part of "tribulation?"

"Tribulation" is PRESSURE put upon people to do what they would not normally do: such as take a mark they KNEW would put them in the lake of fire? 

I think you need to start over. You and I have never agreed on much of anything in Revelation. 

Let me explain what will make those days of GT Jesus spoke of:

Forcing people who know it is a sin to bow down to an image.

Forcing people to take the mark, siding thereby with the enemy of God.

These things were written in chapter 13 and won't be enforced until after chapter 14.

Edited by iamlamad

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1 minute ago, iamlamad said:

Have you never read the book of Maccabees? I assure you, many died during those days. There were unspeakable and despicable things down to Israel then. 

In case you missed it, Antiochus became a TYPE of the Antichrist Beast in Revelation.  

Ive read Maccabees and the antiquities of the jews.

I dont follow the blind Pharisees whos interpretations these belong.If you wish to believe as the pharisees and that God lives in the building those pharisees occupied you go right ahead.

By the way,watch out for pig.Im sure someome will slaughter one today .Those things are thought to cause great tribulation by some.

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2 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Ive read Maccabees and the antiquities of the jews.

I dont follow the blind Pharisees whos interpretations these belong.If you wish to believe as the pharisees and that God lives in the building those pharisees occupied you go right ahead.

By the way,watch out for pig.Im sure someome will slaughter one today .Those things are thought to cause great tribulation by some.

Macabees is a book of history: do you not believe it? Perhaps then you could read Josephus.  Please tell me you don't copy the ostrich when history is presented!

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10 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

For starters. God SHORTENS NOTHING He has decreed the Days of Trouble as being 1260 days by my take, or half of the 70th week. Jesus stated those days will be shortened, which only means Jesus/God has predetermined the number of days BEFORE they made their original plans, they are all knowing, they don't have to change their plans !! This drives me batty that people go down this rabbit hole. Jesus' 2nd Coming will SHORTEN the Days of Troubles to 1260 days, IF Jesus decided to return 3 or 4 years later, no man/men would be left on earth. He is not going to SHORTEN His plan. His PLAN is going to shorten the TROUBLES.

By not understanding the timing of the Seals you have no shot brother at getting the timing of the Abomination of Desolation correct in juxtaposition to the book of Revelation {BoR}. The first Six Seals are all opened instantaneously one after the other, the first four seals are the Anti-Christ and his 42 months of terror on mankind, the 5th seal shows the barbaric results of those 42 months on the Faithful, and the Sixth Seal is God's Supernatural Announcement that Judgment is on the way, all Six Seals are opened at once basically, because the First 5 are showing what the reign of the Anti-Christ will bring forth, the Sixth Seal thus is opened at on the 1260, just like the other 5 are opened on the 1260, when the Children of Israel are DEFEATED/Conquered or lose their Power. 

Dan. 12:6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

So from the time the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem/Israel, there will be a time, times and half and Rev. 12 says this time, times and half once like that and once via the number 1260, so we know it is 1260 days from the time Israel/Jerusalem is conquered until the Second Coming of Jesus ends all these things/wonders. 

 The Fleeing begins 30 days before the First Seal is opened, the Abomination of Desolation is a SIGN to the Jews who have Repented to Flee Judea, because the Beast will Conquer Jerusalem in 30 days. Thus you have 30 days to make it to the Petra/Bozrah area of protection before the Anti-Christ is RELEASED by my {God's} First Seal. It always bugged me to think God would allow the Anti-Christ to Conquer Jerusalem, then tell them to Flee, God's planing is much better than ours of course, and thus why wait until Jerusalem/Jews are Conquered to give a sign. That is when I saw in Daniel 12 it was us humans misreading the timing of the signs, God's plan was perfect, it gave the Jews who REPENTED, thus believed Jesus' words/warning, 30 days to Flee Judea.

Just like the 1260 days is a set number of days from the day the Jews are Conquered until the Second Coming ends these wonders, verse 11 says the same thing about the AoD, but Jesus {Man in Linen} says it will be 1290 days until all these wonders cease {Second Coming}, we know this because in verse 8 Daniel asks when will these things end ? Daniel 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

Dan. 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

So if the Daily is taken away 30 Days before the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem, and the Abomination is placed in the Temple at the same time, who allows this ? Well the High Priest {False Prophet} does, hes incensed that 1/3 of the Jews have accepted Jesus Christ {like Malachi 4:5 says will happen BEFORE the DOTL/Midway point} and thus he stops the Worshiping of Jesus in the Temple of God, REMEMBER, Daniel sees the Daily as a PRAYER unto God, an Oblation or Tribute unto God, if a Meat Sacrifice can be offered that's all good, but the tribute or acknowledgment of God is the main thing to God, He desires obedience OVER sacrifice. Well Daniel is just giving us what Gabriel is relaying unto him, the DAILY that will be taken away is/was a Sacrifice, it will be the False Prophet barring the worshipping of Jesus Christ in the Temple of God !! Amen, if the Jews have repented, they will be serving Jesus Christ, at least 1/3 will, the 2/3 who refuse are probably atheistic anyway, worldly people or some intrinsic  {in the Law} Jews like the False Prophet. 

Dan. 9:20 And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the Lord my God for the holy mountain of my God; 21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

 

We know the False Prophet places the Image of the Beast in the Temple of God. 

Rev. 13:13 And he {False Prophet} doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

The False Prophet defiles the Temple, by stopping the worship of Jesus and by placing an Image of the E.U. President in the Temple. The False Prophet is like unto Jason who under Antiochus Epiphanes tried to get the Jews to Hellenize themselves or become like unto the Greeks/THE WORLD in other words.

So the Jews REPENT BEFORE the Day of the Lord {First Seal is opened}, and thus it matches Malachi 4:5 that says Elijah will be sent to turn Israel back unto God BEFORE the Great and TERRIBLE Day of the Lord !! Thus the 1335 is the Two-witnesses, a BLESSING, Amen. It happens 45 days before the 1290 and 75 days before the 1260. 

It is amazing to me how frequently you contradict the written word. God SAID He would shorten the days of GT.  He did NOT say He shortened those days back when He planned the whole thing out.  The truth is, WHEN those days reach their peak, God will THEN shorten them by pouring out the vials of His wrath.  Then the DAYS will continue, but they will not be days of GT.  He is NOT "changing His plans. HIs plans when He caused John to write was that WHEN those days of great tribulation reach their peak, THEN He would shorten them. Matthew wrote, "but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."   That is a future tense verb. Yes, God planned long ago that He would do it, and when the time comes, He WILL do it. By pouring out the vials of His wrath, He will effectively make it impossible for the armies of the Beast to continue their regime of murder. Sorry, out of time.

Edited by iamlamad

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21 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Macabees is a book of history: do you not believe it? Perhaps then you could read Josephus.  Please tell me you don't copy the ostrich when history is presented!

Not quite a book of history.When you take a scripture and say it means this or that then you are applying your interpretation to that scripture.Thats what the pharisees did with maccabees.They gave thier interpretation.

Jesus did not adhere to thier interpretation.Why do you?

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, iamlamad said:

It is amazing to me how frequently you contradict the written word. God SAID He would shorten the days of GT.  He did NOT say He shortened those days back when He planed the whole thing out.  The truth is, WHEN those days reach their peak, God will THEN shorten them by pouring out the vials of His wrath.  Then the DAYS will continue, but they will not be days of GT.  He is NOT "changing His plans. HIs plans when He caused John to write was that WHEN those days of great tribulation reach their peak, THEN He would shorten them. Matthew wrote, "but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."   That is a future tense verb. Yes, God planned long ago that He would do it, and when the time comes, He WILL do it. By pouring out the vials of His wrath, He will effectively make it impossible for the armies of the Beast to continue their regime of murder. Sorry, out of time.

What's amazing is you don't grasp the word of God. The translation or the KJV seems to trip you up. Then you also fail to use logic. You thinking God has to change His original plans boggles my mind brother. God DESIGNS EVERYTHING in Revelation, WITH REASON, around two 1260 Day Periods, and you think God Shortens it, thereby throwing out of whack all his signals unto us. It obvious what was meant, Jesus by returning will SHORTEN the Troubles that the Anti-Christ is bringing upon all mankind, by killing him, and delivering the Jews in Petra/Bozrah. If what you were saying is true, why didn't God just plan the timing right to start with ? He knows all things ? It make no sense that God would make plans then SHORTEN THEM !! God Shortens the troubles by killing the Anti-Christ before he would die if God/Jesus didn't intervene. You are kind of like Douggg who used to be on this site, once he gets something in his head, it is not ever going to change. Well, that stops God from correcting us, and we all need His guidance. 

The Troubles don't stop, the Jews are in Petra hiding from the Beast for 1260 Days.

Nothing you put forth ever fits the rest of the bible brother, everything has to fit together. God Bless. 

 

Edited by Revelation Man

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10 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

For starters. God SHORTENS NOTHING He has decreed the Days of Trouble as being 1260 days by my take, or half of the 70th week. Jesus stated those days will be shortened, which only means Jesus/God has predetermined the number of days BEFORE they made their original plans, they are all knowing, they don't have to change their plans !! This drives me batty that people go down this rabbit hole. Jesus' 2nd Coming will SHORTEN the Days of Troubles to 1260 days, IF Jesus decided to return 3 or 4 years later, no man/men would be left on earth. He is not going to SHORTEN His plan. His PLAN is going to shorten the TROUBLES.

The truth is not a rabbit hole, except for those that think it is.  It is NOT Jesus' coming that shortens the days! It is the pouring out of the vials late in the last half of the week.  The week has been established as two 1260 day periods (2520 days) since John wrote it, and has been established as time, times and half of time (really the same period of time) ever since Daniel wrote it. Anyway is never was the WEEK that was to be shortened; it was the number of days during the last half of the week that would be days of GT. It could have been the full 42 months of authority given to the Beast, but God shortened the number of days DURING those 42 months where GT was taking place. The days of the 42 months will continue on, but no one will be hunted down and killed: the armies of the Beast will be sitting in the dark, gnawing their tongues in pain, wondering what will happen next. 

What you missed: the 1260th day will come, but JESUS remains in heaven. If Jesus came on the 1260th day then all would know the day of His coming. We both know that NO ONE will know. Just so you will know, the week ends at the 7th vial in chapter 16, but Jesus does not return until after the events of chapters 17 & 18. His coming is in chapter 19.

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42 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

The truth is not a rabbit hole, except for those that think it is.  It is NOT Jesus' coming that shortens the days! It is the pouring out of the vials late in the last half of the week.  The week has been established as two 1260 day periods (2520 days) since John wrote it, and has been established as time, times and half of time (really the same period of time) ever since Daniel wrote it. Anyway is never was the WEEK that was to be shortened; it was the number of days during the last half of the week that would be days of GT. It could have been the full 42 months of authority given to the Beast, but God shortened the number of days DURING those 42 months where GT was taking place. The days of the 42 months will continue on, but no one will be hunted down and killed: the armies of the Beast will be sitting in the dark, gnawing their tongues in pain, wondering what will happen next. 

What you missed: the 1260th day will come, but JESUS remains in heaven. If Jesus came on the 1260th day then all would know the day of His coming. We both know that NO ONE will know. Just so you will know, the week ends at the 7th vial in chapter 16, but Jesus does not return until after the events of chapters 17 & 18. His coming is in chapter 19.

That is just not the case, Jesus halts the Anti-Christs NATURAL ORDER of events via his Supernatural Return. The Woman {Israel} stays in hiding for 1260 days. The Troubles thus last for 1260 days. The 7th Vial ends the Beasts reign on the 1260 day of his reign. You break the law of Ocamms Razor with every post, you make things tat are simply, convoluted. 

All will know when he comes, they will not know the day of the Pre Trib Rapture. 

Rev. 17 and 18 are Parenthetical Citations, they both start at the Mid-way point with the opening of the First Seal, chapter 17 is the Harlot getting judged by the 10 Kings & the Beast, they kill of all Religions thus All False Religions are JUDGED. Rev. 18 is Babylon {The Whole World} getting Judged by God via the Seal, Trumpet and Vial Judgments. 

He comes in Rev. 16, IT IS DONE, Jesus lads on Mt. Zion. You will never get it until you get the Chronological Order of the BoR right. 

 

Rev. 6, 7, 8, 9, 15&16 is the order of ALL of the last 1260 days of the 70th Week. Rev. 11, 12, 13, 14, 17, 18 and 19 are not a part of the Chronology per se. Chapters, 12, 13, 17, and 18 all start with the First Seal/Anti-Christ being released. Rev. 14 and 19 both cover the full 7 year period. Rev. 14 shows the Rapture in verse 14, and the Wheat {Israel} and the Wicked Tares in the Winepress,  growing together until the end where Jesus lands on Mt. Zion, saves the Jews {144,000 is Millions of Jews} and DESTROYS the Wicked at Armageddon. 

Rev.  is the Pre Trib Raptured Church Marrying Jesus, the RETURNING with him to Armageddon, it covers the full 7 years.

Rev. 11 is about the Two-witnesses Ministry/1260 days of witnessing. NOTHING ELSE, They show up BEFORE the Beast comes to power and thus DIE BEFORE he dies....they die at the 2nd Woe, the Beast dies at the 7th Vial. The Two-witnesses turn the Jews who repent back unto God.

So you don't get the order of the BoR brother. You actually think Rev. 17 and 18 are REAL TIME EVENTS....they are not. 

Edited by Revelation Man

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10 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

By not understanding the timing of the Seals you have no shot brother at getting the timing of the Abomination of Desolation correct in juxtaposition to the book of Revelation {BoR}. The first Six Seals are all opened instantaneously one after the other, the first four seals are the Anti-Christ and his 42 months of terror on mankind, the 5th seal shows the barbaric results of those 42 months on the Faithful, and the Sixth Seal is God's Supernatural Announcement that Judgment is on the way, all Six Seals are opened at once basically, because the First 5 are showing what the reign of the Anti-Christ will bring forth, the Sixth Seal thus is opened at on the 1260, just like the other 5 are opened on the 1260, when the Children of Israel are DEFEATED/Conquered or lose their Power. 

Dan. 12:6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

So from the time the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem/Israel, there will be a time, times and half and Rev. 12 says this time, times and half once like that and once via the number 1260, so we know it is 1260 days from the time Israel/Jerusalem is conquered until the Second Coming of Jesus ends all these things/wonders.  

Wow! just WOW. You are here to teach others when you need to be taught. 

Get this straight once and for all: in Rev. 5 John wrote that Jesus suddenly appeared in the throne room and then sent the Holy Spirit down. You KNOW that Jesus send the Holy Spirit down around 32 AD but you just can't believe that is what John wrote here and why he wrote it. That is because you can't believe in chapter 4 that Jesus was not in the throne room because John was seeing a vision of the past. You can't believe John when he told of a search for one worthy to open that book and "no man was found." You can't seem to understand the reason why "no man was found" is because of TIMING: Jesus had not yet risen from dead in the timing inside the vision. You can't seem to believe that time passed, Jesus rose from the dead and was THEN found worthy. You can't seem to understand this was a vision of the past for John.

It WAS a vision in John's past. God is painting us a picture of the time just before He rose from the dead - TO the time He rose from the dead - and then the time He sent Mary away, ascended into the throne room, took the book from the Father and began opening the seals. 

The truth is, by not understanding the timing of the first 5 seals, your theories are out of whack for the rest of the book!  While John is in the church age, you imagine it is future to us! You are over 2000 years off. 

The first Six Seals are all opened instantaneously one after the other  There is no way you can prove this by scripture. It is your imagination.  As time goes on and you reveal more and more of your theories, I find you get farther and farther from the intent of the Author.

the first four seals are the Anti-Christ  How strange when John does not even see the Antichrist rise up until chapter 13!  Of course your theory is impossible when one considers the actual scriptures.  I guess you just blew over 6:8: you lump all four togther while John puts only 2, 3, and 4 together. Don't take my word for it: go back and read it:  THESE THREE ride together: the one with the  sword, the one with hunger, and the one titled death. AGain you are miles off in your theory.

Get this straight once and for all: don't write this nonsense again: LEARN: 

13:And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

LEARN! This is where the 42 month countdown BEGINS: here in chapter 13, a midpoint chapter.  In other words, his 42 months begins shortly after the midpoint, and goes past the 7th vial that ends the week, to the day Jesus returns, perhaps 30 days AFTER the 7th vial.  Meanwhile the seals are CHURCH AGE. Again I find your theory 2000 years off. And you are here to teach others? 

James 3:1 Not many of you should become teachers...

Again, get this straight and learn: 

SEal 1, opened in 32 AD to represent the gospel sent out.

Seal 2

Seal 3

Seal 4 These three riders ride together: the Sword, Famine, and Death. They are to represent the devil's attempts to stop the church. God has limited them to 1/4 of the earth in their theater of operation.  They have failed: the gospel left that 1/4 of the earth in the first thousand years. 

Seal 5 is the martyrs of the church age: they are told they must WAIT....and here we find the first hint of a long wait. So the first seal was opened immediately after Jesus God the book.  Seals 2 through 4 were opened soon after.  Seal  soon after also. Stephen was surely in that group. 

Seal 6 is first the rapture of the church, then the sudden destruction start of the Day of the Lord. The rapture will trigger the Day. 

Once you learn these things, you will be well on your way to understanding the rest of the book. Miss this and you miss much that follows. 

The WEEK (which includes "the tribulation" and the days of great tribulation begins with the 7th seal. The midpoint of the week (the abomination) will be marked by the 7th trumpet. The week will end with the 7th vial Learn this and you know the basic outline of the book.

from the time the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem/Israel, there will be a time, times and half   NO NO NO! How could anyone mix things up so thoroughly?  EVERY countdown to the end will begin close to the MIDPOINT: the midpoint is proven by John's 5 mentions of the 3.5 year period of time. All five are events that will begin near the midpoint and go to the end of the week - except the 42 months of authority that will go past the end of the week. Did you not see in Daniel 12 the starting point? It is the abomination and the cessation of the daily sacrifices. 

we know it is 1260 days from the time Israel/Jerusalem is conquered until the Second Coming of Jesus ends all these things/wonders.    Did you just not understand it is the 6th vial, LATE in the 70th week, is where the spirits are sent out to call the armies of the world to Israel to fight? In other words, it will be near the END of the 1260 days when Jerusalem will be attacked. 

The two witnesses show up just 3.5 days before the midpoint of the week. They testify for 1260 days  - which takes them to 3.5 days before the end of the week. They are killed and lay dead for those 3.5 days. They are resurrected on the last day or the 1260th day of the week - at the 7th vial. This is ONE mention in the bible of 1260 days. It has nothing to do with Israel being conquered. 

When the man of sin enters the temple, and declares he is God, the daily sacrifices will cease. It will be the abomination event Jesus spoke of. Jesus said, when people SEE that abomination event, they are to flee. We see this fleeing for 1260 days in 12:6. Again the second mention of 1260 days and again NOTHING about Jerusalem being conquered. Therefore I find you are miles off from the truth again. It seems you just imagine things and then insist they are truth. 

Again, Jesus does NOT COME on the 1260th day.  the last day of the week will be at the 7th vial in chapter 16. jesus does not return until chapter 19. 

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         Naomi will be brought back to joys she had thought were lost forever.  Just as Obed means "serving," so the end time, 144,000 believing Jews will be excellent servants of God  as we are told in Revelation.  Naomi means "pleasantness" but she said she had become bitterness.  Naomi's joy will return.   Other types of these victorious, believing Jews are seen in the three young men in the fiery furnace; in Elisha; and in Ephraim, the younger son of Joseph; and in Benjamin.

      Pentecost
         I believe the harvest of grain in springtime points to the season of the coming of the Lord for His believers.  The increase of the grain, the harvest reveals the way He has multiplied His believers like a sower who cultivates His field.
         Pentecost celebrates the giving of the law, and occurs after seven sabbaths, on a Sunday ("the morrow after the sabbath") according to Scripture, (making it another reason for us to worship on Sunday, the day Christ arose). 
         This fulfillment occurred when the Holy Spirit fell upon the gathered believers, as Jesus had promised.  He came with a noise of a mighty wind, and the separated 120 believers saw the flames of fire on one another's heads.  Believers spoke in other tongues, telling about Jesus to people of other nations.  Just as fire came on Sinai as the law was given, so fire came on the Church in Jerusalem.
         Observance on Sunday has been set aside by the Jews as explained above.
         Tradition says that Enoch was born on Pentecost and was also taken up by God on Pentecost.

      Feast of Trumpets
         Next is the Feast of Trumpets, a convocation of trumpets, and all Jews are to gather in Jerusalem.  Some think the convocation of trumpets will be fulfilled  by believers going up to heaven, being gathered to Him, and that Jesus, as High Priest, will blow the trumpet ['the trump of God'  I Thes.]  just as occurred at this feast in Israel near sundown on the evening before the new moon of Tishri 1 when the High Priest blew the shofar to gather the people, who were to immediately go to the temple.

      The Day of Atonement
         The Day of Atonement was a solemn fast day when the Jews were not to work.   For thousands of years, annually on this day the High Priest went into the Holy of Holies and sprinkled the blood of a sacrifice and interceded for the people.  A rope was tied around his ankle in order to pull him out if he died in there and the sacrifice was not accepted.  Jesus went into the Holy of Holies before the Lord and made an atonement for us by the sprinkling of His own Blood. 
         After the Rapture of the believers, there will be, I believe, an awed multitude of Jews  who see that something has happened and many will seek the Lord.  I think this time of shock is revealed in the first chapter of the Book of Joel, and that following chapters describe the tribulation and their comfort as they find God has not forsaken them.  (I have done a little study on Joel which indicates my reasons.)  Jesus has made our atonement and we won't ever experience the earthly fulfillment of that dreadful dark period. 
         I believe the Jews will experience great revival and miracles, and will believe and evangelize.  The tremendous outpouring of God's Spirit as related in Joel will fall upon them.  I believe "Ephraim" was born in 1948, as Israel became a nation.  During the terrible time of God's wrath outpoured upon the sinful earth, Israel will experience great things.  I believe this is borne out in books of the Old Testament and in the Book of Revelation.  Far from the Jews staying behind to experience only curses, I believe many will believe and please the Lord.  They will become a true witness, just as the three young men in the fiery furnace in Daniel, and the Lord will be manifested among them!  They will live through terrible times as they wait to see Him.  No wonder that He said blessed are those who believe without having to see.
         Believers have received the Blood of the slain Passover Lamb,  His offering of Unleavened Bread, and we have taken the symbols of His Blood in the wine and His body in the broken bread.  We have believed in Firstfruits, with Jesus raised from the dead,  like a grain of wheat buried, seemingly dead, and then sprouted in new life.  We have experienced Pentecost and are in a time of waiting and watching for Jesus to come.  We will never again experience a day of crying out and seeking an atonement because Jesus is our all in all.

      Tabernacles, Booths, Succot
         At this feast, all Jews were to go up to Jerusalem for the great gathering of the people.   They were told by the Lord to live out of doors for a week in little booths made of tree limbs and branches to remind them of the way God had protected them in their sojourn from Egypt.  Tabernacles commences on the full moon, the harvest moon.  Most of the crops are in, the grape harvest is ending in September. 
         The olive will be harvested during September, October, November.
         Revelation mentions the pressing of grapes was the time of His wrath.
         Are the 144,000 believing Jews like olives, pressed, yielding precious oil?  The two witnesses of the Book of Revelation are likened to two olive trees.  The olive harvest and pressing reminds us of the oil being used for the Menorah lamp. We know that the grapes of wrath reveal the wicked. 
         Tabernacles will be fulfilled by the Lord setting His Throne in Jerusalem so all the saved would come up to it, since it is on a mountain, Mount Olivet.
         Remaining Jews will experience the time of Jacob's trouble and consider the fulfillments of some of the feasts, and realize what the Lord has done.  The periods of time spoken of by the prophet Daniel will commence to be fulfilled.
         The Lord has a marvelous plan for the Jews.  He will mightily undertake for them, and just as Joseph dealt with his brothers and restored them to himself in a time of great famine, so the Lord will undertake for them in the dark days prophesied in the Scriptures, and they will be restored to Him with tears of joy. 
         We are soon coming to the sunset, it seems to me.  In the twilight after we believers are gone, the Day of the Lord will commence. 
         The sun was darkened when Jesus died, and the Jewish day commences at sunset, and with it begins the dark Day of the Lord.  The Day of Atonement will come and stretch on as the Jews seek God's salvation in that awful time. 
         The seven years start with the covenant of the evil one and Israel, but there could be some intervening time between the Rapture and the start of the Tribulation.  The time of Jacob's trouble will commence, the time of Daniel's seventieth "week."  Greater things than the Exodus will occur.  Afterward, Tabernacles, and then the light of the new day will come, the thousand year earthly reign of Christ here on earth.  And He shall reign forever and ever.
         Some say the Church will go through the tribulation, that God fulfilled the spring feasts in a mighty way on the earth, but that both believers and unbelievers will move together into the tribulation.
         Jesus will set up His kingdom on earth, and sit upon the throne of David, and rule the earth from Jerusalem.  Every year, all people of the earth will come to worship Him there or they will have no rain, according to Zechariah.  Jesus will reign one thousand years, and turn all over to His Father for eternity. 
         Blessed be the Name of the Lord!  

      *****
      Notes, 26 March 2018: 
         I want to say a bit more about a group referred to by various names: NAR New Apostolic Revolution, Latter Day Rain, MSOG or Manifest Sons of God, Kingdom Now, Dominion Theology, Identity.  They and others teach against pre-tribulation Rapture and that Jesus will not come until believers take over, have dominion over the world.   I've read that they believe that the office of Apostle can be conferred by the laying on of their hands, and that the Church has replaced Israel, Replacement Theology.  
         In 2018, Paul Smith of Calvary Chapel states that the "New Evangelical"  outlook, which I think is spreading among some churches, is that Jesus is gradually coming into hearts.   [So many are being taught to not take the Scripture literally as to Jesus' return.]
         I visited a Manifest Sons type of group with an acquaintance, in 1980s, for their large Feast of Tabernacles meetings and celebration, and it took me awhile, but I realized, 'What about the blessed hope?'  
         I take the Scriptures literally and decided the blessed hope is the hope of His coming for believers -- not death, not tribulation, not being hidden in Petra in the mountains southwest of Jerusalem. 
         I'm surprised, but these post-tribulation ideas are still growing and are found among many.  The Manifest Sons group has their main weekly meeting on Saturday, is allied with "CCC" Christ Community Churches.  Dominion Theology people preach that the Church must bring the earth under control before Jesus can come again.
         We will benefit from comparing Scriptures about 1) the grain harvest 2) the coming for the Bride 3) the householder on a journey who exhorts his servants to watch, and will learn much by looking again at the parables of Jesus.
         All unbelieving people left behind at the Rapture will live during the Time of Jacob's trouble.  God's plan will be fulfilled and many will be saved, but many will die, many will be executed, and suffering will be great.   One hundred forty four thousand Jewish men from the tribes will evangelize and many will believe.  After the departing of the Church, the Scripture will be fulfilled, Jeremiah 8:20  The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.  
         The book of Joel chapter 1 speaks of an event that has occurred:  "The word of the LORD that came to Joel the son of Pethuel. Hear this, ye old men, and give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land. Hath this been in your days, or even in the days of your fathers?  Tell ye your children of it, and let your children tell their children, and their children another generation."  Verse 7: "He hath laid my vine waste, and barked my fig tree: he hath made it clean bare, and cast it away; the branches thereof are made white."   Does this event point to the missing believers and realization by Jews that they had not recognized Messiah, or does it indicate there has been a military attack on Israel?
         Specifics for events in the time of tribulation can be found in Daniel and in the Book of Revelation.
         The evil man will arise and set up world government and eventually enter the Temple in Jerusalem, saying he is God, and the most awful times will occur.  Great numbers of new believers, who will refuse to take his mark, will be beheaded.  Eventually, as Jesus warned, some will flee Jerusalem and hide in the mountains to the southeast, and be sustained by the Lord. 
         Evil unbelieving people of the tribulation are compared to a harvest gathering of grapes, to be crushed.
         Believers during the Time of Jacob's trouble might be compared to the olive harvest, the last harvest of the agricultural year, and the pressing of the olives.
         After a specific number of days, Jesus will come with all His saints, on white horses and clothed in white linen, and He will split Mount Olivet in Jerusalem, east to west.  He will slay all His enemies upon the earth by the word from His mouth.  Some people will live through the tribulation and have children, in a time of peace, blessing, abundance.  Satan will be bound, Rev. 20.
         Rev. 19:8  And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
         We look forward to His gathering of His grain harvest.  Rev. 22:20  Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
         
    • By Jonathan Dane
      (an excerpt from my book, Rise of the Little Horn)
       
      The Emergence
      A man with no military or political experience announces his run for the most powerful seat in the world. His promise? GREATNESS. He controls the flow of money, and is head over a military that is unmatched in the world. He is consumed with winning politically and fortifying his strongholds. Though initially thought of as a minor threat by his associates, he truly towers over them. He demolishes them by means of abusive and slanderous speech, tears down the character of those who oppose him and flatters and elevates those who admire him. He rises up as if by sheer will. He is an alpha male who plots and manipulates anything and everything to take down his opponents. He is seemingly unstoppable. To the utter amazement of the world, he succeeds at nearly everything he does, despite his lack of deep personal conviction on any issue except self-aggrandizement. His narcissistic pride is evident to all as he continually boasts, exaggerating his achievements and financial worth. He is characteristically disingenuous, so deftly twisting the truth that deceit becomes the norm rather than the exception.
      An aura emanates from him that seems to delude people’s thinking; making those―seemingly intelligent―unable to discern truth from falsehood. At some point, these deluded masses begin to view good things as evil and evil things as good. He is untamable, doing whatever he pleases. These characteristics cause other world leaders to fear him. He shows little regard for the support of women, yet boasts of his various adulterous relationships. Despite his inflated claims, he does possess considerable wealth, which he unabashedly flaunts; wealth accumulated through real estate holdings and building projects. Hailed as the consummate praised man of the city, he is a builder of great high towers, bedecked with precious stones and gold. He is obsessed with his name and plasters it on everything he touches.
      He is cunning and shrewd; playing his enemies like a game of cards. He is vicious in his desire to win. The concepts of grace and forgiveness find no place in him. Violence follows him wherever he goes; even to the killing of innocents who stand between him and his goals. His false show of religion gains the trust of people of faith―deluding them. He comes to power through the “simple folk” who have been discarded as insignificant. His supporters are unwavering in their commitment, for they worship the ground he walks on. His rise to power coincides with a political uprising and defection. Many will leave their former political affiliations.
      His ascension comes at a time of worldwide financial, social, religious, military and civil upheaval. But he will promise to restore law and order, and to soon put an end to crime and violence; a few of many extravagant promises he will never keep. He will establish an extreme vetting process to prevent illegals from gaining access. He will seek the wealth of Iraq as Russia shows signs of escalating military aggression towards the Middle East. Known for his ability to make deals, he promises to make a peace deal between Israel and her surrounding enemies. He plans a restructure of the balance of power in Europe in order to fight terror. The earth will be in global flux.
      Who do these paragraphs describe? This portrait was penned thousands of years ago. It is a biblical word picture of the most evil, ruthless killer of all time; a tyrant who will draw the world into the last great mega-battle known as Armageddon. The Bible refers to this man as the Son of Perdition, the Man of Sin, the Wicked One, the Worthless Shepherd, the Beast, the LIE, the Adversary, the Spoiler, the Willful King, the Lawless One, the Desolator, and more. This man’s wickedness grows until, eventually, Satan himself will possess him. He is known to most as the Antichrist. 

      (Copyright 2016 - Jonathan Dane - All Rights Reserved)
    • By Omegaman 3.0
      This one is lengthy, almost 45 minutes, but I think it is worth your time. I found it fascinating and delightful, and should be encouraging and helpful to Christians. I was tempted to put it in the Bible Topics area, there is a not of Bible in it. However it is more of a testimony of the remarkable events of Corrie's life of how she came to be imprisoned in Nazi Germany for hiding Jews from persecution, and her experiences in concentration camps. Did you know fleas and lice, can be a blessing from God, and an ant can give you a sermon?
      There are lessons here, for any who might find themselves in persecution, (real persecution, not merely being ridiculed for your faith at the work place) to see how faith can see us through, should such events ever befall us.
       
       
    • By DonkeySpeaksAgain
      Mal. 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.
      Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
      7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
      8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
      9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
      10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
      Rom 15:8 "Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers"
       
      It is after the sixty-ninth week that Messiah is cut off. That fact definitely places it in the seventieth week—that last remaining week of the prophecy. It was during this week that Christ did confirm His covenant with many according to Matt. 26:26-28. On this solemn occasion Christ instituted the most sacred of Christian ordinances, the Lord's Supper, saying, "This is My blood of THE NEW TESTAMENT (literally covenant), which is shed for MANY for the remission of sins."
      Conclusive Proof Links Christ With the Covenant. The death of Christ very definitely instituted the New and Everlasting Covenant, and Christ emphatically confirmed that covenant with many during the three and a half years of His ministry on earth. Even the words of Daniel are almost identical with those of Matthew—"He shall confirm the covenant with many"—"this is My blood of the New Testament which is shed for many."
      The evidence is very conclusive. There are 281 references to "covenant" in the Scriptures according to Young's Analytical Concordance. Not one of these references in any way introduces the idea of a covenant between the Jews and the Anti-Christ. 'There is not a hint anywhere that such a covenant is suggested, intended, proposed or prophesied at any time. Concerning the covenant between the believers and the Messiah there are many scores of such references. They are found in almost every book in the Bible. The reason is because when the Jews broke the Old Covenant, (see Jer. 31:31-33) then God purposed to make a new and everlasting covenant with His people. Consequently all the prophets refer to it and Daniel foretold that it would be ratified in the 70th week of his prophecy. cp. Heb. 8:7-10.
      Even more convincing is the testimony supplied by the Hebrew word for Covenant used in the phrase, "He shall confirm the covenant." The word for covenant is "Bereeth" according to the Pulpit
      Commentary ; it is spelled "berith" in Young's Analytical Concordance. In the Pulpit Commentary, Vol. 29, p. 275, a lengthy exposition points out that "Bereeth" is only used in connection with a Divine Covenant. It is never used to designate a "league" with any other power or force but is always reserved to describe a covenant between God and man. For that reason the covenant cannot apply to anyone except the Messiah. It cannot possibly describe a covenant with the Anti-Christ or any political group involving apostate Jews.
      It is further explained that when the covenant is confirmed the sacrifice and oblation ceases. The Massoretic text renders it : "And one week shall confirm a covenant to many, and in the middle of the week MY sacrifice and offering shall be taken away." The use of the pronoun "my" removes all doubt concerning what sacrifice and oblation is meant. It was the Mosaic sacrifices which God ordained and honored until the death of Christ. That is the only sacrifice God could call "MY" sacrifice.
      The death of Christ on Calvary DID institute the New and everlasting covenant and Christ Himself DID confirm that covenant with many during His earthly ministry. When Christ died on the cross the veil of the temple was rent from top to bottom, thus signifying that the old sacrifices and oblations had ceased to have any spiritual or efficacious value. At the best they were but a shadow of good things to come, (Heb. 10:1), and when Christ died on the cross the "better covenant was established." Heb. 8:6. The old covenant with its sacrifices and oblations became null and void immediately Christ died, and in that sense He caused them to cease.
      God Cannot Fail. It should be noted finally that the angel Gabriel made the announcement to Daniel. The Bible only mentions him on three occasions. He came to Daniel at the start of the 70 weeks and then he came to Zacharias and Mary to announce the birth of John the Baptist and the Messiah as the time of fulfillment drew near. Note also that the only date mentioned in the New Testament is found in Luke 3:1, 2, telling of the ruling hierarchy in both Jewish and Gentile states at that time, and signifying an impending event that would affect both Jews and Gentiles, i.e. the whole world. It was the year that Jesus was baptised; the year He was manifested to His people. It was the year He began to fulfill the promises made to the fathers ; the beginning of the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy (the Jubilee year). Is it any wonder that the first evangels began their message by preaching "The Kingdom of God, saying the time is fulfilled?" What time was fulfilled ? There was only one time to be fulfilled and that was the prophecy of Daniel. Just as Daniel "understood by books the number of years whereof the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah," Dan. 9 :2, and therefore knew the time had come for the Jews to return to Jerusalem, SO John the Baptist and Christ knew that the time specified by the angel Gabriel had been fulfilled. This set time was so certain and so determined by God that when Jesus was first attacked by His enemies He said, "My time is not yet come, " John 7:6, but in John 13 :1 it says, "Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew His HOUR WAS COME." (Compare John 2 :4 ; 7 :30 ; 8 :20 ; 12 :23 ; and 17 :1)
    • By Omegaman 3.0
      Things the Bible DOES NOT SAY about the End Times   Notice, that this list, does not establish any end times  theory, it tries to prove nothing. It does not even  attack a theory, or attempt to refute one.    What it does attempt to do, is to get people to ask  themselves, why they believe certain things, that the  Bible never says.   So basically, in between the lines I am asking:    If we believe certain things that are not stated in the scripture, and claim that we believe them because that is what scripture teaches, aren't we in principle adding to the words of scripture?   Furthermore, if we teach these things as though they are true, does that make us false teachers?   So, what things do I claim the Bible does not teach?  Following is a short list:   1. It does not say there will be a Rapture of the Church,  which occurs before the Great Tribulation.   2. It does not refer to a 7 year period as the Great Tribulation.   3. It does not say that the Holy Spirit is removed from the  Earth at any time during the Great Tribulation.   4. It does not refer to the Great Tribulation, as the wrath  of God.   5. It does not say that Jesus will return secretly or  invisibly to take His Church.   6. It does not say that no man will ever know the time (the day or hour) of His coming.
      7. It does not say that Jesus can return at any moment.   8. It does not say that Jesus will return like a thief in  the night for His church.   9. It does not say that believers will not be in the great  tribulation, or skip suffering and persecution, or even  death.   Now, am I wrong about anything on that list. If so, can you provide scripture citations that would make anything in the list a misstatement?   Thanks for your help!   P.S. Please try to stick to the actual topic, and provide us with the information which would show me to be in error, when I claim the bible does not express the ideas in the list. Also not, that in the thread that follows, other ideas that could be added to the list are these:   10. The Bible does not explicitly say the the Rapture is the Blessed Hope.   11. Jesus is not said to return as a thief in the night, in any context that necessitates a pre-tribulation return.   12. It is often said: The Rapture is Jesus coming for His church, the Second Coming is Jesus coming with His church. I think those definitions are workable, but the Bible does not say there is a multi-year interval between those events.   13. The Bible does not say, that there are 144,000 evangelists or witnesses, during the tribulation.   Helpful link to common verses applied to this topic
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