Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  

Days of great tribulation

Recommended Posts

11 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

So from the time the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem/Israel, there will be a time, times and half and Rev. 12 says this time, times and half once like that and once via the number 1260, so we know it is 1260 days from the time Israel/Jerusalem is conquered until the Second Coming of Jesus ends all these things/wonders.  

Unless you can find scripture for the conquering of Jerusalem WITH the scriptures of the 1260 days, this is only MYTH. 

Do you just not understand the week ends at the 7th vial (IT IS DONE) and then EVENTS happen as shown in chapters 17 & 18. then the marriage and supper will take place IN HEAVEN - all before Jesus returns. 

Will you REWRITE the book to fit your theory?

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

 The Fleeing begins 30 days before the First Seal is opened, the Abomination of Desolation is a SIGN to the Jews who have Repented to Flee Judea, because the Beast will Conquer Jerusalem in 30 days. Thus you have 30 days to make it to the Petra/Bozrah area of protection before the Anti-Christ is RELEASED by my {God's} First Seal. It always bugged me to think God would allow the Anti-Christ to Conquer Jerusalem, then tell them to Flee, God's planing is much better than ours of course, and thus why wait until Jerusalem/Jews are Conquered to give a sign. That is when I saw in Daniel 12 it was us humans misreading the timing of the signs, God's plan was perfect, it gave the Jews who REPENTED, thus believed Jesus' words/warning, 30 days to Flee Judea.

The Fleeing begins 30 days before the First Seal is opened  I cannot stand it: all you write is MYTH: things so far removed from scripture it is a waste of time to answer. 

Remember: James 3:1 Not many of you should become teachers

We will have to answer for what we write here!

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

But your not addressing what Jesus said.   WHEN you see the AoD,  THEN shall be great tribulation. 

Be Blessed, 

The PuP 

Since we find the fleeing (because they have SEEN IT) in Rev. 12:6 - that is very near the abomination. Then comes war in heaven. Then Satan finds people have fled and He goes after them - but sees they are protected. He then turns and goes after those that love Jesus. But will He do this as a spirit - or will he possess a man first and use human armies? It IS right after the AoD

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

That is just not the case, Jesus halts the Anti-Christs NATURAL ORDER of events via his Supernatural Return. The Woman {Israel} stays in hiding for 1260 days. The Troubles thus last for 1260 days. The 7th Vial ends the Beasts reign on the 1260 day of his reign. You break the law of Ocamms Razor with every post, you make things tat are simply, convoluted. 

All will know when he comes, they will not know the day of the Pre Trib Rapture. 

Rev. 17 and 18 are Parenthetical Citations, they both start at the Mid-way point with the opening of the First Seal, chapter 17 is the Harlot getting judged by the 10 Kings & the Beast, they kill of all Religions thus All False Religions are JUDGED. Rev. 18 is Babylon {The Whole World} getting Judged by God via the Seal, Trumpet and Vial Judgments. 

He comes in Rev. 16, IT IS DONE, Jesus lads on Mt. Zion. You will never get it until you get the Chronological Order of the BoR right. 

I FOLLOW Occam's razor perfectly. I don't use my imagination. I read what is written and repeat in here - and people deny it, PROVING they don't follow what is written. 

Since you want to rewrite the book, I have no more to say except this: God is going to face you one day and ask you WHY you have rewritten His book! God is going to tell you that He WROTE IT in perfect order! 

I really hope rewriting the book is going to work out for you. Somehow I don't think it will.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Wow! just WOW. You are here to teach others when you need to be taught. 

Get this straight once and for all: in Rev. 5 John wrote that Jesus suddenly appeared in the throne room and then sent the Holy Spirit down. You KNOW that Jesus send the Holy Spirit down around 32 AD but you just can't believe that is what John wrote here and why he wrote it. That is because you can't believe in chapter 4 that Jesus was not in the throne room because John was seeing a vision of the past. You can't believe John when he told of a search for one worthy to open that book and "no man was found." You can't seem to understand the reason why "no man was found" is because of TIMING: Jesus had not yet risen from dead in the timing inside the vision. You can't seem to believe that time passed, Jesus rose from the dead and was THEN found worthy. You can't seem to understand this was a vision of the past for John.

It WAS a vision in John's past. God is painting us a picture of the time just before He rose from the dead - TO the time He rose from the dead - and then the time He sent Mary away, ascended into the throne room, took the book from the Father and began opening the seals. 

The truth is, by not understanding the timing of the first 5 seals, your theories are out of whack for the rest of the book!  While John is in the church age, you imagine it is future to us! You are over 2000 years off. 

The first Six Seals are all opened instantaneously one after the other  There is no way you can prove this by scripture. It is your imagination.  As time goes on and you reveal more and more of your theories, I find you get farther and farther from the intent of the Author.

the first four seals are the Anti-Christ  How strange when John does not even see the Antichrist rise up until chapter 13!  Of course your theory is impossible when one considers the actual scriptures.  I guess you just blew over 6:8: you lump all four togther while John puts only 2, 3, and 4 together. Don't take my word for it: go back and read it:  THESE THREE ride together: the one with the  sword, the one with hunger, and the one titled death. AGain you are miles off in your theory.

Get this straight once and for all: don't write this nonsense again: LEARN: 

13:And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

LEARN! This is where the 42 month countdown BEGINS: here in chapter 13, a midpoint chapter.  In other words, his 42 months begins shortly after the midpoint, and goes past the 7th vial that ends the week, to the day Jesus returns, perhaps 30 days AFTER the 7th vial.  Meanwhile the seals are CHURCH AGE. Again I find your theory 2000 years off. And you are here to teach others? 

James 3:1 Not many of you should become teachers...

Again, get this straight and learn: 

SEal 1, opened in 32 AD to represent the gospel sent out.

Seal 2

Seal 3

Seal 4 These three riders ride together: the Sword, Famine, and Death. They are to represent the devil's attempts to stop the church. God has limited them to 1/4 of the earth in their theater of operation.  They have failed: the gospel left that 1/4 of the earth in the first thousand years. 

Seal 5 is the martyrs of the church age: they are told they must WAIT....and here we find the first hint of a long wait. So the first seal was opened immediately after Jesus God the book.  Seals 2 through 4 were opened soon after.  Seal  soon after also. Stephen was surely in that group. 

Seal 6 is first the rapture of the church, then the sudden destruction start of the Day of the Lord. The rapture will trigger the Day. 

Once you learn these things, you will be well on your way to understanding the rest of the book. Miss this and you miss much that follows. 

The WEEK (which includes "the tribulation" and the days of great tribulation begins with the 7th seal. The midpoint of the week (the abomination) will be marked by the 7th trumpet. The week will end with the 7th vial Learn this and you know the basic outline of the book.

from the time the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem/Israel, there will be a time, times and half   NO NO NO! How could anyone mix things up so thoroughly?  EVERY countdown to the end will begin close to the MIDPOINT: the midpoint is proven by John's 5 mentions of the 3.5 year period of time. All five are events that will begin near the midpoint and go to the end of the week - except the 42 months of authority that will go past the end of the week. Did you not see in Daniel 12 the starting point? It is the abomination and the cessation of the daily sacrifices. 

we know it is 1260 days from the time Israel/Jerusalem is conquered until the Second Coming of Jesus ends all these things/wonders.    Did you just not understand it is the 6th vial, LATE in the 70th week, is where the spirits are sent out to call the armies of the world to Israel to fight? In other words, it will be near the END of the 1260 days when Jerusalem will be attacked. 

The two witnesses show up just 3.5 days before the midpoint of the week. They testify for 1260 days  - which takes them to 3.5 days before the end of the week. They are killed and lay dead for those 3.5 days. They are resurrected on the last day or the 1260th day of the week - at the 7th vial. This is ONE mention in the bible of 1260 days. It has nothing to do with Israel being conquered. 

When the man of sin enters the temple, and declares he is God, the daily sacrifices will cease. It will be the abomination event Jesus spoke of. Jesus said, when people SEE that abomination event, they are to flee. We see this fleeing for 1260 days in 12:6. Again the second mention of 1260 days and again NOTHING about Jerusalem being conquered. Therefore I find you are miles off from the truth again. It seems you just imagine things and then insist they are truth. 

Again, Jesus does NOT COME on the 1260th day.  the last day of the week will be at the 7th vial in chapter 16. jesus does not return until chapter 19. 

 I have said my piece, I don't chew my gum twice. No use reading what you wrote so I shall not reply, you start of saying the Seals were opened 2000 years ago and we are supposed to carry on a conversation, there is no there there brother, God Bless. I don't keep going over the same non issue over and over again, it's just a waste of time for us to debate it. 

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Not quite a book of history.When you take a scripture and say it means this or that then you are applying your interpretation to that scripture.Thats what the pharisees did with maccabees.They gave thier interpretation.

Jesus did not adhere to thier interpretation.Why do you?

The book of Maccabees told very accurately what Antiochus did. It was not an "interpretation: it was written as a history book. Josephus backed them up or repeated much of what they said. We can't go to the library and pick out a book on "Antiochus pollutes the temple of God." I doubt such a book has been written. I suspect the book of Maccabees is the best history we have of what happened back then. I did find this:

Antiochus IV Epiphanes in Jerusalem

Daniel R. Schwartz
Dept. of Jewish History, Hebrew University

Perhaps it is a doctoral thesis or just an article. Again I ask you, do you not believe Antiochus did terrible things to the Jews? Perhaps you did not get a history course on it, but you should know it anyway as bible history.  By the way, Jesus NEVER denied what Antiochus did. Today we have people denying the Holocaust. That does not mean it did not happen. The truth is, we have no right to rewrite history. 

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Since we find the fleeing (because they have SEEN IT) in Rev. 12:6 - that is very near the abomination. Then comes war in heaven. Then Satan finds people have fled and He goes after them - but sees they are protected. He then turns and goes after those that love Jesus. But will He do this as a spirit - or will he possess a man first and use human armies? It IS right after the AoD

 You seem to be trying to say that the "tribulation" that the world experiences (in the 3.5 years before the AoD takes place) is the result of Satan's wrath and not God's.   Does the final 7 years (aka the 70th week)  begin as the DOTL or not?  [I.e., which comes first... the DOTL or the AoD? ]

The PuP 

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Ive read Maccabees and the antiquities of the jews.

I dont follow the blind Pharisees whos interpretations these belong.If you wish to believe as the pharisees and that God lives in the building those pharisees occupied you go right ahead.

By the way,watch out for pig.Im sure someome will slaughter one today .Those things are thought to cause great tribulation by some.

Oh! Finally you admit to reading it? And apparently you believe he slaughtered a pig on the altar.  Perhaps you also know that stopped the daily sacrifices and it took 2300 evening morning sacrifices missed before the temple could be cleansed. 

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Da Puppers said:

 You seem to be trying to say that the "tribulation" that the world experiences (in the 3.5 years before the AoD takes place) is the result of Satan's wrath and not God's.   Does the final 7 years (aka the 70th week)  begin as the DOTL or not?  [I.e., which comes first... the DOTL or the AoD? ]

The PuP 

No, that is not at all what I have said. The Day of the Lord starts first (6th seal) and is also the Day of His wrath. Then, perhaps 10 days later the 7th seal starts the 70th week. God is still angry. The 7 trumpets sound, and God is still angry. Finally the 7 vials are poured out FILLED with God's wrath. 

I find God's wrath throughout the entire 70th week. In comparison, Satan's wrath begins at the midpoint when he is cast down. Yes, God is angry then too. The truth then is that God's wrath and Satan's wrath are concurrent.  They cannot be separated by time.

So the DAY begins first, then the Week. I believe the 6th seal will come on the ending of the Feast of trumpets and the 10 days of Awe will follow. Then the 7th seal will be opened. 

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, iamlamad said:

The book of Maccabees told very accurately what Antiochus did. It was not an "interpretation: it was written as a history book. Josephus backed them up or repeated much of what they said. We can't go to the library and pick out a book on "Antiochus pollutes the temple of God." I doubt such a book has been written. I suspect the book of Maccabees is the best history we have of what happened back then. I did find this:

Antiochus IV Epiphanes in Jerusalem

Daniel R. Schwartz
Dept. of Jewish History, Hebrew University

Perhaps it is a doctoral thesis or just an article. Again I ask you, do you not believe Antiochus did terrible things to the Jews? Perhaps you did not get a history course on it, but you should know it anyway as bible history.  By the way, Jesus NEVER denied what Antiochus did. Today we have people denying the Holocaust. That does not mean it did not happen. The truth is, we have no right to rewrite history. 

Jesus never referenced the falsr intetpretatipn of the pharisees as you do.

Jesus plainly stated the abomination of desolation would be a sign of his coming at the end of the age.That alone shows the interpretation of the pharisees to be false.

Daniel even states the abomination of desolation would be set up at the time of the end.What makes you think the time of the end was in 167 bc?

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Similar Content

    • By Mary8
      The Feasts Fulfilled
      from 18 Feb 1991ml   I have made some changes.  See end for notes.

         Jews in ancient Israel were required to go to Jerusalem to celebrate three feasts, Passover, Pentecost, and in the autumn, Trumpets.
         Jesus fulfilled Passover which occurred on a full moon, the 14th day of the month Nisan. 
         Passover celebrates the Exodus from Egypt, which bespeaks salvation, escape, deliverance.
         Nisan 1 commences at the New Moon, as do all months on the Jewish calendar.  This month should mark the beginning of the year by Jews (rather than in September/October as they presently observe, the Civil Year.)
         Ex. 12:1-3:  "And the Lord spoke unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, saying, This month shall be unto you the beginning of months:  it shall be the first month of the year to you.  Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb .... a lamb for an house."
         Jesus, the slain Lamb, is the only acceptable sacrifice, and believers trust in the Blood of the Lamb and are thereby saved.

      Unleavened Bread
         Jesus fulfilled the Feast of Unleavened Bread which commenced the same day as Passover, on the 14th day of Nisan, and it was a seven day period of eating bread without leavening, which represents sin.  This feast was fulfilled before God only, as Jesus, the sinless one was lifted up before God.
      Mark 14:.12, 22  12 And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?...  22 And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body. 
         Jesus fulfilled Firstfruits by arising from the grave on the third day after His death.  The term Firstfruits refers to the first sheaves of barley which were ready to cut and Jesus's resurrection is the  fulfillment.  [Lev. 23:10.]  Many saved people were also resurrected from their graves and walked about the Jerusalem area at the time of Jesus's resurrection.  This first group of resurrected saints compares to the Rapture of believers as the world goes on around the event.
         I believe the Rapture of the Church is shown in the following Scriptures.  Jesus the grain, died, brought forth much fruit, and His Church is likened to a harvest of grain.  Jesus often likened Himself to a husbandman also, and here He is waiting for the precious fruit, the gathering of the harvest of souls.
         John 12:24  Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
         James 5:7  Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.
         The barley and wheat harvests in Israel are the early crops, with the earliest, the barley harvest completed in April, and the wheat completed in May.  This year of 2018, Passover commences Friday evening, March 30, and the counting of the days, Lag b'Omer, and Omer 1 starts on March 31.  Jesus arose on Firstfruits, "the morrow after the Sabbath," Sunday, and in 2018, Firstfruits is Sunday, April 1, through Saturday, April 7.   The Lag b'Omer ends on the 50th day, the morrow after the Sabbath, which is Pentecost.  Lev. 23.  Centuries ago, the Jewish calendar was changed, and Pentecost was shifted from always being on a Sunday 'the morrow after the Sabbath,' to Sivan 6.  This year of 2018, Sivan 6 happens to fall on Pentecost Sunday.  
         These days are for me a time of considering whether He may gather us during the period of the grain harvest.
          Lev. 23:10-11 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest:  And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it. 
         The people were not to eat of the grain until it had been waved before the Lord.
         We see a picture of a time of rejoicing for Israel revealed in the story of old Naomi, and her restoration and joy in having a little boy to care for in her old age.  Ruth was married and taken into Boaz's house and lifted out of her time of gleaning in the field.  The son of Boaz, Obed, is born.  Others have noted that the book of Ruth is like the story of the Church and the Lord Jesus, and I think there is also this parallel to Israel revealed in Naomi's story, that Jesus is like Boaz, and when He and the Church are wed in heaven, a son will be born, the sealed servants in Israel. 
         Naomi will be brought back to joys she had thought were lost forever.  Just as Obed means "serving," so the end time, 144,000 believing Jews will be excellent servants of God  as we are told in Revelation.  Naomi means "pleasantness" but she said she had become bitterness.  Naomi's joy will return.   Other types of these victorious, believing Jews are seen in the three young men in the fiery furnace; in Elisha; and in Ephraim, the younger son of Joseph; and in Benjamin.

         I believe the harvest of grain in springtime points to the season of the coming of the Lord for His believers.  The increase of the grain, the harvest reveals the way He has multiplied His believers like a sower who cultivates His field.
         Pentecost celebrates the giving of the law, and occurs after seven sabbaths, on a Sunday ("the morrow after the sabbath") according to Scripture, (making it another reason for us to worship on Sunday, the day Christ arose). 
         This fulfillment occurred when the Holy Spirit fell upon the gathered believers, as Jesus had promised.  He came with a noise of a mighty wind, and the separated 120 believers saw the flames of fire on one another's heads.  Believers spoke in other tongues, telling about Jesus to people of other nations.  Just as fire came on Sinai as the law was given, so fire came on the Church in Jerusalem.
         Observance on Sunday has been set aside by the Jews as explained above.
         Tradition says that Enoch was born on Pentecost and was also taken up by God on Pentecost.

      Feast of Trumpets
         Next is the Feast of Trumpets, a convocation of trumpets, and all Jews are to gather in Jerusalem.  Some think the convocation of trumpets will be fulfilled  by believers going up to heaven, being gathered to Him, and that Jesus, as High Priest, will blow the trumpet ['the trump of God'  I Thes.]  just as occurred at this feast in Israel near sundown on the evening before the new moon of Tishri 1 when the High Priest blew the shofar to gather the people, who were to immediately go to the temple.

      The Day of Atonement
         The Day of Atonement was a solemn fast day when the Jews were not to work.   For thousands of years, annually on this day the High Priest went into the Holy of Holies and sprinkled the blood of a sacrifice and interceded for the people.  A rope was tied around his ankle in order to pull him out if he died in there and the sacrifice was not accepted.  Jesus went into the Holy of Holies before the Lord and made an atonement for us by the sprinkling of His own Blood. 
         After the Rapture of the believers, there will be, I believe, an awed multitude of Jews  who see that something has happened and many will seek the Lord.  I think this time of shock is revealed in the first chapter of the Book of Joel, and that following chapters describe the tribulation and their comfort as they find God has not forsaken them.  (I have done a little study on Joel which indicates my reasons.)  Jesus has made our atonement and we won't ever experience the earthly fulfillment of that dreadful dark period. 
         I believe the Jews will experience great revival and miracles, and will believe and evangelize.  The tremendous outpouring of God's Spirit as related in Joel will fall upon them.  I believe "Ephraim" was born in 1948, as Israel became a nation.  During the terrible time of God's wrath outpoured upon the sinful earth, Israel will experience great things.  I believe this is borne out in books of the Old Testament and in the Book of Revelation.  Far from the Jews staying behind to experience only curses, I believe many will believe and please the Lord.  They will become a true witness, just as the three young men in the fiery furnace in Daniel, and the Lord will be manifested among them!  They will live through terrible times as they wait to see Him.  No wonder that He said blessed are those who believe without having to see.
         Believers have received the Blood of the slain Passover Lamb,  His offering of Unleavened Bread, and we have taken the symbols of His Blood in the wine and His body in the broken bread.  We have believed in Firstfruits, with Jesus raised from the dead,  like a grain of wheat buried, seemingly dead, and then sprouted in new life.  We have experienced Pentecost and are in a time of waiting and watching for Jesus to come.  We will never again experience a day of crying out and seeking an atonement because Jesus is our all in all.

      Tabernacles, Booths, Succot
         At this feast, all Jews were to go up to Jerusalem for the great gathering of the people.   They were told by the Lord to live out of doors for a week in little booths made of tree limbs and branches to remind them of the way God had protected them in their sojourn from Egypt.  Tabernacles commences on the full moon, the harvest moon.  Most of the crops are in, the grape harvest is ending in September. 
         The olive will be harvested during September, October, November.
         Revelation mentions the pressing of grapes was the time of His wrath.
         Are the 144,000 believing Jews like olives, pressed, yielding precious oil?  The two witnesses of the Book of Revelation are likened to two olive trees.  The olive harvest and pressing reminds us of the oil being used for the Menorah lamp. We know that the grapes of wrath reveal the wicked. 
         Tabernacles will be fulfilled by the Lord setting His Throne in Jerusalem so all the saved would come up to it, since it is on a mountain, Mount Olivet.
         Remaining Jews will experience the time of Jacob's trouble and consider the fulfillments of some of the feasts, and realize what the Lord has done.  The periods of time spoken of by the prophet Daniel will commence to be fulfilled.
         The Lord has a marvelous plan for the Jews.  He will mightily undertake for them, and just as Joseph dealt with his brothers and restored them to himself in a time of great famine, so the Lord will undertake for them in the dark days prophesied in the Scriptures, and they will be restored to Him with tears of joy. 
         We are soon coming to the sunset, it seems to me.  In the twilight after we believers are gone, the Day of the Lord will commence. 
         The sun was darkened when Jesus died, and the Jewish day commences at sunset, and with it begins the dark Day of the Lord.  The Day of Atonement will come and stretch on as the Jews seek God's salvation in that awful time. 
         The seven years start with the covenant of the evil one and Israel, but there could be some intervening time between the Rapture and the start of the Tribulation.  The time of Jacob's trouble will commence, the time of Daniel's seventieth "week."  Greater things than the Exodus will occur.  Afterward, Tabernacles, and then the light of the new day will come, the thousand year earthly reign of Christ here on earth.  And He shall reign forever and ever.
         Some say the Church will go through the tribulation, that God fulfilled the spring feasts in a mighty way on the earth, but that both believers and unbelievers will move together into the tribulation.
         Jesus will set up His kingdom on earth, and sit upon the throne of David, and rule the earth from Jerusalem.  Every year, all people of the earth will come to worship Him there or they will have no rain, according to Zechariah.  Jesus will reign one thousand years, and turn all over to His Father for eternity. 
         Blessed be the Name of the Lord!  

      Notes, 26 March 2018: 
         I want to say a bit more about a group referred to by various names: NAR New Apostolic Revolution, Latter Day Rain, MSOG or Manifest Sons of God, Kingdom Now, Dominion Theology, Identity.  They and others teach against pre-tribulation Rapture and that Jesus will not come until believers take over, have dominion over the world.   I've read that they believe that the office of Apostle can be conferred by the laying on of their hands, and that the Church has replaced Israel, Replacement Theology.  
         In 2018, Paul Smith of Calvary Chapel states that the "New Evangelical"  outlook, which I think is spreading among some churches, is that Jesus is gradually coming into hearts.   [So many are being taught to not take the Scripture literally as to Jesus' return.]
         I visited a Manifest Sons type of group with an acquaintance, in 1980s, for their large Feast of Tabernacles meetings and celebration, and it took me awhile, but I realized, 'What about the blessed hope?'  
         I take the Scriptures literally and decided the blessed hope is the hope of His coming for believers -- not death, not tribulation, not being hidden in Petra in the mountains southwest of Jerusalem. 
         I'm surprised, but these post-tribulation ideas are still growing and are found among many.  The Manifest Sons group has their main weekly meeting on Saturday, is allied with "CCC" Christ Community Churches.  Dominion Theology people preach that the Church must bring the earth under control before Jesus can come again.
         We will benefit from comparing Scriptures about 1) the grain harvest 2) the coming for the Bride 3) the householder on a journey who exhorts his servants to watch, and will learn much by looking again at the parables of Jesus.
         All unbelieving people left behind at the Rapture will live during the Time of Jacob's trouble.  God's plan will be fulfilled and many will be saved, but many will die, many will be executed, and suffering will be great.   One hundred forty four thousand Jewish men from the tribes will evangelize and many will believe.  After the departing of the Church, the Scripture will be fulfilled, Jeremiah 8:20  The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.  
         The book of Joel chapter 1 speaks of an event that has occurred:  "The word of the LORD that came to Joel the son of Pethuel. Hear this, ye old men, and give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land. Hath this been in your days, or even in the days of your fathers?  Tell ye your children of it, and let your children tell their children, and their children another generation."  Verse 7: "He hath laid my vine waste, and barked my fig tree: he hath made it clean bare, and cast it away; the branches thereof are made white."   Does this event point to the missing believers and realization by Jews that they had not recognized Messiah, or does it indicate there has been a military attack on Israel?
         Specifics for events in the time of tribulation can be found in Daniel and in the Book of Revelation.
         The evil man will arise and set up world government and eventually enter the Temple in Jerusalem, saying he is God, and the most awful times will occur.  Great numbers of new believers, who will refuse to take his mark, will be beheaded.  Eventually, as Jesus warned, some will flee Jerusalem and hide in the mountains to the southeast, and be sustained by the Lord. 
         Evil unbelieving people of the tribulation are compared to a harvest gathering of grapes, to be crushed.
         Believers during the Time of Jacob's trouble might be compared to the olive harvest, the last harvest of the agricultural year, and the pressing of the olives.
         After a specific number of days, Jesus will come with all His saints, on white horses and clothed in white linen, and He will split Mount Olivet in Jerusalem, east to west.  He will slay all His enemies upon the earth by the word from His mouth.  Some people will live through the tribulation and have children, in a time of peace, blessing, abundance.  Satan will be bound, Rev. 20.
         Rev. 19:8  And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
         We look forward to His gathering of His grain harvest.  Rev. 22:20  Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
    • By Jonathan Dane
      (an excerpt from my book, Rise of the Little Horn)
      The Emergence
      A man with no military or political experience announces his run for the most powerful seat in the world. His promise? GREATNESS. He controls the flow of money, and is head over a military that is unmatched in the world. He is consumed with winning politically and fortifying his strongholds. Though initially thought of as a minor threat by his associates, he truly towers over them. He demolishes them by means of abusive and slanderous speech, tears down the character of those who oppose him and flatters and elevates those who admire him. He rises up as if by sheer will. He is an alpha male who plots and manipulates anything and everything to take down his opponents. He is seemingly unstoppable. To the utter amazement of the world, he succeeds at nearly everything he does, despite his lack of deep personal conviction on any issue except self-aggrandizement. His narcissistic pride is evident to all as he continually boasts, exaggerating his achievements and financial worth. He is characteristically disingenuous, so deftly twisting the truth that deceit becomes the norm rather than the exception.
      An aura emanates from him that seems to delude people’s thinking; making those―seemingly intelligent―unable to discern truth from falsehood. At some point, these deluded masses begin to view good things as evil and evil things as good. He is untamable, doing whatever he pleases. These characteristics cause other world leaders to fear him. He shows little regard for the support of women, yet boasts of his various adulterous relationships. Despite his inflated claims, he does possess considerable wealth, which he unabashedly flaunts; wealth accumulated through real estate holdings and building projects. Hailed as the consummate praised man of the city, he is a builder of great high towers, bedecked with precious stones and gold. He is obsessed with his name and plasters it on everything he touches.
      He is cunning and shrewd; playing his enemies like a game of cards. He is vicious in his desire to win. The concepts of grace and forgiveness find no place in him. Violence follows him wherever he goes; even to the killing of innocents who stand between him and his goals. His false show of religion gains the trust of people of faith―deluding them. He comes to power through the “simple folk” who have been discarded as insignificant. His supporters are unwavering in their commitment, for they worship the ground he walks on. His rise to power coincides with a political uprising and defection. Many will leave their former political affiliations.
      His ascension comes at a time of worldwide financial, social, religious, military and civil upheaval. But he will promise to restore law and order, and to soon put an end to crime and violence; a few of many extravagant promises he will never keep. He will establish an extreme vetting process to prevent illegals from gaining access. He will seek the wealth of Iraq as Russia shows signs of escalating military aggression towards the Middle East. Known for his ability to make deals, he promises to make a peace deal between Israel and her surrounding enemies. He plans a restructure of the balance of power in Europe in order to fight terror. The earth will be in global flux.
      Who do these paragraphs describe? This portrait was penned thousands of years ago. It is a biblical word picture of the most evil, ruthless killer of all time; a tyrant who will draw the world into the last great mega-battle known as Armageddon. The Bible refers to this man as the Son of Perdition, the Man of Sin, the Wicked One, the Worthless Shepherd, the Beast, the LIE, the Adversary, the Spoiler, the Willful King, the Lawless One, the Desolator, and more. This man’s wickedness grows until, eventually, Satan himself will possess him. He is known to most as the Antichrist. 

      (Copyright 2016 - Jonathan Dane - All Rights Reserved)
    • By Omegaman 3.0
      This one is lengthy, almost 45 minutes, but I think it is worth your time. I found it fascinating and delightful, and should be encouraging and helpful to Christians. I was tempted to put it in the Bible Topics area, there is a not of Bible in it. However it is more of a testimony of the remarkable events of Corrie's life of how she came to be imprisoned in Nazi Germany for hiding Jews from persecution, and her experiences in concentration camps. Did you know fleas and lice, can be a blessing from God, and an ant can give you a sermon?
      There are lessons here, for any who might find themselves in persecution, (real persecution, not merely being ridiculed for your faith at the work place) to see how faith can see us through, should such events ever befall us.
    • By DonkeySpeaksAgain
      Mal. 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.
      Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
      7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
      8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
      9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
      10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
      Rom 15:8 "Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers"
      It is after the sixty-ninth week that Messiah is cut off. That fact definitely places it in the seventieth week—that last remaining week of the prophecy. It was during this week that Christ did confirm His covenant with many according to Matt. 26:26-28. On this solemn occasion Christ instituted the most sacred of Christian ordinances, the Lord's Supper, saying, "This is My blood of THE NEW TESTAMENT (literally covenant), which is shed for MANY for the remission of sins."
      Conclusive Proof Links Christ With the Covenant. The death of Christ very definitely instituted the New and Everlasting Covenant, and Christ emphatically confirmed that covenant with many during the three and a half years of His ministry on earth. Even the words of Daniel are almost identical with those of Matthew—"He shall confirm the covenant with many"—"this is My blood of the New Testament which is shed for many."
      The evidence is very conclusive. There are 281 references to "covenant" in the Scriptures according to Young's Analytical Concordance. Not one of these references in any way introduces the idea of a covenant between the Jews and the Anti-Christ. 'There is not a hint anywhere that such a covenant is suggested, intended, proposed or prophesied at any time. Concerning the covenant between the believers and the Messiah there are many scores of such references. They are found in almost every book in the Bible. The reason is because when the Jews broke the Old Covenant, (see Jer. 31:31-33) then God purposed to make a new and everlasting covenant with His people. Consequently all the prophets refer to it and Daniel foretold that it would be ratified in the 70th week of his prophecy. cp. Heb. 8:7-10.
      Even more convincing is the testimony supplied by the Hebrew word for Covenant used in the phrase, "He shall confirm the covenant." The word for covenant is "Bereeth" according to the Pulpit
      Commentary ; it is spelled "berith" in Young's Analytical Concordance. In the Pulpit Commentary, Vol. 29, p. 275, a lengthy exposition points out that "Bereeth" is only used in connection with a Divine Covenant. It is never used to designate a "league" with any other power or force but is always reserved to describe a covenant between God and man. For that reason the covenant cannot apply to anyone except the Messiah. It cannot possibly describe a covenant with the Anti-Christ or any political group involving apostate Jews.
      It is further explained that when the covenant is confirmed the sacrifice and oblation ceases. The Massoretic text renders it : "And one week shall confirm a covenant to many, and in the middle of the week MY sacrifice and offering shall be taken away." The use of the pronoun "my" removes all doubt concerning what sacrifice and oblation is meant. It was the Mosaic sacrifices which God ordained and honored until the death of Christ. That is the only sacrifice God could call "MY" sacrifice.
      The death of Christ on Calvary DID institute the New and everlasting covenant and Christ Himself DID confirm that covenant with many during His earthly ministry. When Christ died on the cross the veil of the temple was rent from top to bottom, thus signifying that the old sacrifices and oblations had ceased to have any spiritual or efficacious value. At the best they were but a shadow of good things to come, (Heb. 10:1), and when Christ died on the cross the "better covenant was established." Heb. 8:6. The old covenant with its sacrifices and oblations became null and void immediately Christ died, and in that sense He caused them to cease.
      God Cannot Fail. It should be noted finally that the angel Gabriel made the announcement to Daniel. The Bible only mentions him on three occasions. He came to Daniel at the start of the 70 weeks and then he came to Zacharias and Mary to announce the birth of John the Baptist and the Messiah as the time of fulfillment drew near. Note also that the only date mentioned in the New Testament is found in Luke 3:1, 2, telling of the ruling hierarchy in both Jewish and Gentile states at that time, and signifying an impending event that would affect both Jews and Gentiles, i.e. the whole world. It was the year that Jesus was baptised; the year He was manifested to His people. It was the year He began to fulfill the promises made to the fathers ; the beginning of the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy (the Jubilee year). Is it any wonder that the first evangels began their message by preaching "The Kingdom of God, saying the time is fulfilled?" What time was fulfilled ? There was only one time to be fulfilled and that was the prophecy of Daniel. Just as Daniel "understood by books the number of years whereof the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah," Dan. 9 :2, and therefore knew the time had come for the Jews to return to Jerusalem, SO John the Baptist and Christ knew that the time specified by the angel Gabriel had been fulfilled. This set time was so certain and so determined by God that when Jesus was first attacked by His enemies He said, "My time is not yet come, " John 7:6, but in John 13 :1 it says, "Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew His HOUR WAS COME." (Compare John 2 :4 ; 7 :30 ; 8 :20 ; 12 :23 ; and 17 :1)
    • By Omegaman 3.0
      Things the Bible DOES NOT SAY about the End Times   Notice, that this list, does not establish any end times  theory, it tries to prove nothing. It does not even  attack a theory, or attempt to refute one.    What it does attempt to do, is to get people to ask  themselves, why they believe certain things, that the  Bible never says.   So basically, in between the lines I am asking:    If we believe certain things that are not stated in the scripture, and claim that we believe them because that is what scripture teaches, aren't we in principle adding to the words of scripture?   Furthermore, if we teach these things as though they are true, does that make us false teachers?   So, what things do I claim the Bible does not teach?  Following is a short list:   1. It does not say there will be a Rapture of the Church,  which occurs before the Great Tribulation.   2. It does not refer to a 7 year period as the Great Tribulation.   3. It does not say that the Holy Spirit is removed from the  Earth at any time during the Great Tribulation.   4. It does not refer to the Great Tribulation, as the wrath  of God.   5. It does not say that Jesus will return secretly or  invisibly to take His Church.   6. It does not say that no man will ever know the time (the day or hour) of His coming.
      7. It does not say that Jesus can return at any moment.   8. It does not say that Jesus will return like a thief in  the night for His church.   9. It does not say that believers will not be in the great  tribulation, or skip suffering and persecution, or even  death.   Now, am I wrong about anything on that list. If so, can you provide scripture citations that would make anything in the list a misstatement?   Thanks for your help!   P.S. Please try to stick to the actual topic, and provide us with the information which would show me to be in error, when I claim the bible does not express the ideas in the list. Also not, that in the thread that follows, other ideas that could be added to the list are these:   10. The Bible does not explicitly say the the Rapture is the Blessed Hope.   11. Jesus is not said to return as a thief in the night, in any context that necessitates a pre-tribulation return.   12. It is often said: The Rapture is Jesus coming for His church, the Second Coming is Jesus coming with His church. I think those definitions are workable, but the Bible does not say there is a multi-year interval between those events.   13. The Bible does not say, that there are 144,000 evangelists or witnesses, during the tribulation.   Helpful link to common verses applied to this topic
  • Create New...