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iamlamad

Days of great tribulation

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11 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

So from the time the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem/Israel, there will be a time, times and half and Rev. 12 says this time, times and half once like that and once via the number 1260, so we know it is 1260 days from the time Israel/Jerusalem is conquered until the Second Coming of Jesus ends all these things/wonders.  

Unless you can find scripture for the conquering of Jerusalem WITH the scriptures of the 1260 days, this is only MYTH. 

Do you just not understand the week ends at the 7th vial (IT IS DONE) and then EVENTS happen as shown in chapters 17 & 18. then the marriage and supper will take place IN HEAVEN - all before Jesus returns. 

Will you REWRITE the book to fit your theory?

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11 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

 The Fleeing begins 30 days before the First Seal is opened, the Abomination of Desolation is a SIGN to the Jews who have Repented to Flee Judea, because the Beast will Conquer Jerusalem in 30 days. Thus you have 30 days to make it to the Petra/Bozrah area of protection before the Anti-Christ is RELEASED by my {God's} First Seal. It always bugged me to think God would allow the Anti-Christ to Conquer Jerusalem, then tell them to Flee, God's planing is much better than ours of course, and thus why wait until Jerusalem/Jews are Conquered to give a sign. That is when I saw in Daniel 12 it was us humans misreading the timing of the signs, God's plan was perfect, it gave the Jews who REPENTED, thus believed Jesus' words/warning, 30 days to Flee Judea.

The Fleeing begins 30 days before the First Seal is opened  I cannot stand it: all you write is MYTH: things so far removed from scripture it is a waste of time to answer. 

Remember: James 3:1 Not many of you should become teachers

We will have to answer for what we write here!

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12 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

But your not addressing what Jesus said.   WHEN you see the AoD,  THEN shall be great tribulation. 

Be Blessed, 

The PuP 

Since we find the fleeing (because they have SEEN IT) in Rev. 12:6 - that is very near the abomination. Then comes war in heaven. Then Satan finds people have fled and He goes after them - but sees they are protected. He then turns and goes after those that love Jesus. But will He do this as a spirit - or will he possess a man first and use human armies? It IS right after the AoD

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12 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

That is just not the case, Jesus halts the Anti-Christs NATURAL ORDER of events via his Supernatural Return. The Woman {Israel} stays in hiding for 1260 days. The Troubles thus last for 1260 days. The 7th Vial ends the Beasts reign on the 1260 day of his reign. You break the law of Ocamms Razor with every post, you make things tat are simply, convoluted. 

All will know when he comes, they will not know the day of the Pre Trib Rapture. 

Rev. 17 and 18 are Parenthetical Citations, they both start at the Mid-way point with the opening of the First Seal, chapter 17 is the Harlot getting judged by the 10 Kings & the Beast, they kill of all Religions thus All False Religions are JUDGED. Rev. 18 is Babylon {The Whole World} getting Judged by God via the Seal, Trumpet and Vial Judgments. 

He comes in Rev. 16, IT IS DONE, Jesus lads on Mt. Zion. You will never get it until you get the Chronological Order of the BoR right. 

I FOLLOW Occam's razor perfectly. I don't use my imagination. I read what is written and repeat in here - and people deny it, PROVING they don't follow what is written. 

Since you want to rewrite the book, I have no more to say except this: God is going to face you one day and ask you WHY you have rewritten His book! God is going to tell you that He WROTE IT in perfect order! 

I really hope rewriting the book is going to work out for you. Somehow I don't think it will.

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26 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Wow! just WOW. You are here to teach others when you need to be taught. 

Get this straight once and for all: in Rev. 5 John wrote that Jesus suddenly appeared in the throne room and then sent the Holy Spirit down. You KNOW that Jesus send the Holy Spirit down around 32 AD but you just can't believe that is what John wrote here and why he wrote it. That is because you can't believe in chapter 4 that Jesus was not in the throne room because John was seeing a vision of the past. You can't believe John when he told of a search for one worthy to open that book and "no man was found." You can't seem to understand the reason why "no man was found" is because of TIMING: Jesus had not yet risen from dead in the timing inside the vision. You can't seem to believe that time passed, Jesus rose from the dead and was THEN found worthy. You can't seem to understand this was a vision of the past for John.

It WAS a vision in John's past. God is painting us a picture of the time just before He rose from the dead - TO the time He rose from the dead - and then the time He sent Mary away, ascended into the throne room, took the book from the Father and began opening the seals. 

The truth is, by not understanding the timing of the first 5 seals, your theories are out of whack for the rest of the book!  While John is in the church age, you imagine it is future to us! You are over 2000 years off. 

The first Six Seals are all opened instantaneously one after the other  There is no way you can prove this by scripture. It is your imagination.  As time goes on and you reveal more and more of your theories, I find you get farther and farther from the intent of the Author.

the first four seals are the Anti-Christ  How strange when John does not even see the Antichrist rise up until chapter 13!  Of course your theory is impossible when one considers the actual scriptures.  I guess you just blew over 6:8: you lump all four togther while John puts only 2, 3, and 4 together. Don't take my word for it: go back and read it:  THESE THREE ride together: the one with the  sword, the one with hunger, and the one titled death. AGain you are miles off in your theory.

Get this straight once and for all: don't write this nonsense again: LEARN: 

13:And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

LEARN! This is where the 42 month countdown BEGINS: here in chapter 13, a midpoint chapter.  In other words, his 42 months begins shortly after the midpoint, and goes past the 7th vial that ends the week, to the day Jesus returns, perhaps 30 days AFTER the 7th vial.  Meanwhile the seals are CHURCH AGE. Again I find your theory 2000 years off. And you are here to teach others? 

James 3:1 Not many of you should become teachers...

Again, get this straight and learn: 

SEal 1, opened in 32 AD to represent the gospel sent out.

Seal 2

Seal 3

Seal 4 These three riders ride together: the Sword, Famine, and Death. They are to represent the devil's attempts to stop the church. God has limited them to 1/4 of the earth in their theater of operation.  They have failed: the gospel left that 1/4 of the earth in the first thousand years. 

Seal 5 is the martyrs of the church age: they are told they must WAIT....and here we find the first hint of a long wait. So the first seal was opened immediately after Jesus God the book.  Seals 2 through 4 were opened soon after.  Seal  soon after also. Stephen was surely in that group. 

Seal 6 is first the rapture of the church, then the sudden destruction start of the Day of the Lord. The rapture will trigger the Day. 

Once you learn these things, you will be well on your way to understanding the rest of the book. Miss this and you miss much that follows. 

The WEEK (which includes "the tribulation" and the days of great tribulation begins with the 7th seal. The midpoint of the week (the abomination) will be marked by the 7th trumpet. The week will end with the 7th vial Learn this and you know the basic outline of the book.

from the time the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem/Israel, there will be a time, times and half   NO NO NO! How could anyone mix things up so thoroughly?  EVERY countdown to the end will begin close to the MIDPOINT: the midpoint is proven by John's 5 mentions of the 3.5 year period of time. All five are events that will begin near the midpoint and go to the end of the week - except the 42 months of authority that will go past the end of the week. Did you not see in Daniel 12 the starting point? It is the abomination and the cessation of the daily sacrifices. 

we know it is 1260 days from the time Israel/Jerusalem is conquered until the Second Coming of Jesus ends all these things/wonders.    Did you just not understand it is the 6th vial, LATE in the 70th week, is where the spirits are sent out to call the armies of the world to Israel to fight? In other words, it will be near the END of the 1260 days when Jerusalem will be attacked. 

The two witnesses show up just 3.5 days before the midpoint of the week. They testify for 1260 days  - which takes them to 3.5 days before the end of the week. They are killed and lay dead for those 3.5 days. They are resurrected on the last day or the 1260th day of the week - at the 7th vial. This is ONE mention in the bible of 1260 days. It has nothing to do with Israel being conquered. 

When the man of sin enters the temple, and declares he is God, the daily sacrifices will cease. It will be the abomination event Jesus spoke of. Jesus said, when people SEE that abomination event, they are to flee. We see this fleeing for 1260 days in 12:6. Again the second mention of 1260 days and again NOTHING about Jerusalem being conquered. Therefore I find you are miles off from the truth again. It seems you just imagine things and then insist they are truth. 

Again, Jesus does NOT COME on the 1260th day.  the last day of the week will be at the 7th vial in chapter 16. jesus does not return until chapter 19. 

 I have said my piece, I don't chew my gum twice. No use reading what you wrote so I shall not reply, you start of saying the Seals were opened 2000 years ago and we are supposed to carry on a conversation, there is no there there brother, God Bless. I don't keep going over the same non issue over and over again, it's just a waste of time for us to debate it. 

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6 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Not quite a book of history.When you take a scripture and say it means this or that then you are applying your interpretation to that scripture.Thats what the pharisees did with maccabees.They gave thier interpretation.

Jesus did not adhere to thier interpretation.Why do you?

The book of Maccabees told very accurately what Antiochus did. It was not an "interpretation: it was written as a history book. Josephus backed them up or repeated much of what they said. We can't go to the library and pick out a book on "Antiochus pollutes the temple of God." I doubt such a book has been written. I suspect the book of Maccabees is the best history we have of what happened back then. I did find this:

Antiochus IV Epiphanes in Jerusalem

Daniel R. Schwartz
Dept. of Jewish History, Hebrew University

Perhaps it is a doctoral thesis or just an article. Again I ask you, do you not believe Antiochus did terrible things to the Jews? Perhaps you did not get a history course on it, but you should know it anyway as bible history.  By the way, Jesus NEVER denied what Antiochus did. Today we have people denying the Holocaust. That does not mean it did not happen. The truth is, we have no right to rewrite history. 

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26 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Since we find the fleeing (because they have SEEN IT) in Rev. 12:6 - that is very near the abomination. Then comes war in heaven. Then Satan finds people have fled and He goes after them - but sees they are protected. He then turns and goes after those that love Jesus. But will He do this as a spirit - or will he possess a man first and use human armies? It IS right after the AoD

 You seem to be trying to say that the "tribulation" that the world experiences (in the 3.5 years before the AoD takes place) is the result of Satan's wrath and not God's.   Does the final 7 years (aka the 70th week)  begin as the DOTL or not?  [I.e., which comes first... the DOTL or the AoD? ]

The PuP 

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7 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Ive read Maccabees and the antiquities of the jews.

I dont follow the blind Pharisees whos interpretations these belong.If you wish to believe as the pharisees and that God lives in the building those pharisees occupied you go right ahead.

By the way,watch out for pig.Im sure someome will slaughter one today .Those things are thought to cause great tribulation by some.

Oh! Finally you admit to reading it? And apparently you believe he slaughtered a pig on the altar.  Perhaps you also know that stopped the daily sacrifices and it took 2300 evening morning sacrifices missed before the temple could be cleansed. 

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1 minute ago, Da Puppers said:

 You seem to be trying to say that the "tribulation" that the world experiences (in the 3.5 years before the AoD takes place) is the result of Satan's wrath and not God's.   Does the final 7 years (aka the 70th week)  begin as the DOTL or not?  [I.e., which comes first... the DOTL or the AoD? ]

The PuP 

No, that is not at all what I have said. The Day of the Lord starts first (6th seal) and is also the Day of His wrath. Then, perhaps 10 days later the 7th seal starts the 70th week. God is still angry. The 7 trumpets sound, and God is still angry. Finally the 7 vials are poured out FILLED with God's wrath. 

I find God's wrath throughout the entire 70th week. In comparison, Satan's wrath begins at the midpoint when he is cast down. Yes, God is angry then too. The truth then is that God's wrath and Satan's wrath are concurrent.  They cannot be separated by time.

So the DAY begins first, then the Week. I believe the 6th seal will come on the ending of the Feast of trumpets and the 10 days of Awe will follow. Then the 7th seal will be opened. 

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7 hours ago, iamlamad said:

The book of Maccabees told very accurately what Antiochus did. It was not an "interpretation: it was written as a history book. Josephus backed them up or repeated much of what they said. We can't go to the library and pick out a book on "Antiochus pollutes the temple of God." I doubt such a book has been written. I suspect the book of Maccabees is the best history we have of what happened back then. I did find this:

Antiochus IV Epiphanes in Jerusalem

Daniel R. Schwartz
Dept. of Jewish History, Hebrew University

Perhaps it is a doctoral thesis or just an article. Again I ask you, do you not believe Antiochus did terrible things to the Jews? Perhaps you did not get a history course on it, but you should know it anyway as bible history.  By the way, Jesus NEVER denied what Antiochus did. Today we have people denying the Holocaust. That does not mean it did not happen. The truth is, we have no right to rewrite history. 

Jesus never referenced the falsr intetpretatipn of the pharisees as you do.

Jesus plainly stated the abomination of desolation would be a sign of his coming at the end of the age.That alone shows the interpretation of the pharisees to be false.

Daniel even states the abomination of desolation would be set up at the time of the end.What makes you think the time of the end was in 167 bc?

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         I'm surprised, but these post-tribulation ideas are still growing and are found among many.  The Manifest Sons group has their main weekly meeting on Saturday, is allied with "CCC" Christ Community Churches.  Dominion Theology people preach that the Church must bring the earth under control before Jesus can come again.
         We will benefit from comparing Scriptures about 1) the grain harvest 2) the coming for the Bride 3) the householder on a journey who exhorts his servants to watch, and will learn much by looking again at the parables of Jesus.
         All unbelieving people left behind at the Rapture will live during the Time of Jacob's trouble.  God's plan will be fulfilled and many will be saved, but many will die, many will be executed, and suffering will be great.   One hundred forty four thousand Jewish men from the tribes will evangelize and many will believe.  After the departing of the Church, the Scripture will be fulfilled, Jeremiah 8:20  The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.  
         The book of Joel chapter 1 speaks of an event that has occurred:  "The word of the LORD that came to Joel the son of Pethuel. Hear this, ye old men, and give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land. Hath this been in your days, or even in the days of your fathers?  Tell ye your children of it, and let your children tell their children, and their children another generation."  Verse 7: "He hath laid my vine waste, and barked my fig tree: he hath made it clean bare, and cast it away; the branches thereof are made white."   Does this event point to the missing believers and realization by Jews that they had not recognized Messiah, or does it indicate there has been a military attack on Israel?
         Specifics for events in the time of tribulation can be found in Daniel and in the Book of Revelation.
         The evil man will arise and set up world government and eventually enter the Temple in Jerusalem, saying he is God, and the most awful times will occur.  Great numbers of new believers, who will refuse to take his mark, will be beheaded.  Eventually, as Jesus warned, some will flee Jerusalem and hide in the mountains to the southeast, and be sustained by the Lord. 
         Evil unbelieving people of the tribulation are compared to a harvest gathering of grapes, to be crushed.
         Believers during the Time of Jacob's trouble might be compared to the olive harvest, the last harvest of the agricultural year, and the pressing of the olives.
         After a specific number of days, Jesus will come with all His saints, on white horses and clothed in white linen, and He will split Mount Olivet in Jerusalem, east to west.  He will slay all His enemies upon the earth by the word from His mouth.  Some people will live through the tribulation and have children, in a time of peace, blessing, abundance.  Satan will be bound, Rev. 20.
         Rev. 19:8  And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
         We look forward to His gathering of His grain harvest.  Rev. 22:20  Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
         
    • By Jonathan Dane
      (an excerpt from my book, Rise of the Little Horn)
       
      The Emergence
      A man with no military or political experience announces his run for the most powerful seat in the world. His promise? GREATNESS. He controls the flow of money, and is head over a military that is unmatched in the world. He is consumed with winning politically and fortifying his strongholds. Though initially thought of as a minor threat by his associates, he truly towers over them. He demolishes them by means of abusive and slanderous speech, tears down the character of those who oppose him and flatters and elevates those who admire him. He rises up as if by sheer will. He is an alpha male who plots and manipulates anything and everything to take down his opponents. He is seemingly unstoppable. To the utter amazement of the world, he succeeds at nearly everything he does, despite his lack of deep personal conviction on any issue except self-aggrandizement. His narcissistic pride is evident to all as he continually boasts, exaggerating his achievements and financial worth. He is characteristically disingenuous, so deftly twisting the truth that deceit becomes the norm rather than the exception.
      An aura emanates from him that seems to delude people’s thinking; making those―seemingly intelligent―unable to discern truth from falsehood. At some point, these deluded masses begin to view good things as evil and evil things as good. He is untamable, doing whatever he pleases. These characteristics cause other world leaders to fear him. He shows little regard for the support of women, yet boasts of his various adulterous relationships. Despite his inflated claims, he does possess considerable wealth, which he unabashedly flaunts; wealth accumulated through real estate holdings and building projects. Hailed as the consummate praised man of the city, he is a builder of great high towers, bedecked with precious stones and gold. He is obsessed with his name and plasters it on everything he touches.
      He is cunning and shrewd; playing his enemies like a game of cards. He is vicious in his desire to win. The concepts of grace and forgiveness find no place in him. Violence follows him wherever he goes; even to the killing of innocents who stand between him and his goals. His false show of religion gains the trust of people of faith―deluding them. He comes to power through the “simple folk” who have been discarded as insignificant. His supporters are unwavering in their commitment, for they worship the ground he walks on. His rise to power coincides with a political uprising and defection. Many will leave their former political affiliations.
      His ascension comes at a time of worldwide financial, social, religious, military and civil upheaval. But he will promise to restore law and order, and to soon put an end to crime and violence; a few of many extravagant promises he will never keep. He will establish an extreme vetting process to prevent illegals from gaining access. He will seek the wealth of Iraq as Russia shows signs of escalating military aggression towards the Middle East. Known for his ability to make deals, he promises to make a peace deal between Israel and her surrounding enemies. He plans a restructure of the balance of power in Europe in order to fight terror. The earth will be in global flux.
      Who do these paragraphs describe? This portrait was penned thousands of years ago. It is a biblical word picture of the most evil, ruthless killer of all time; a tyrant who will draw the world into the last great mega-battle known as Armageddon. The Bible refers to this man as the Son of Perdition, the Man of Sin, the Wicked One, the Worthless Shepherd, the Beast, the LIE, the Adversary, the Spoiler, the Willful King, the Lawless One, the Desolator, and more. This man’s wickedness grows until, eventually, Satan himself will possess him. He is known to most as the Antichrist. 

      (Copyright 2016 - Jonathan Dane - All Rights Reserved)
    • By Omegaman 3.0
      This one is lengthy, almost 45 minutes, but I think it is worth your time. I found it fascinating and delightful, and should be encouraging and helpful to Christians. I was tempted to put it in the Bible Topics area, there is a not of Bible in it. However it is more of a testimony of the remarkable events of Corrie's life of how she came to be imprisoned in Nazi Germany for hiding Jews from persecution, and her experiences in concentration camps. Did you know fleas and lice, can be a blessing from God, and an ant can give you a sermon?
      There are lessons here, for any who might find themselves in persecution, (real persecution, not merely being ridiculed for your faith at the work place) to see how faith can see us through, should such events ever befall us.
       
       
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