Days of great tribulation

[iamlamad]

12 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

But your not addressing what Jesus said.   WHEN you see the AoD,  THEN shall be great tribulation. 

Be Blessed, 

The PuP 

Since we find the fleeing (because they have SEEN IT) in Rev. 12:6 - that is very near the abomination. Then comes war in heaven. Then Satan finds people have fled and He goes after them - but sees they are protected. He then turns and goes after those that love Jesus. But will He do this as a spirit - or will he possess a man first and use human armies? It IS right after the AoD

[iamlamad]

12 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

That is just not the case, Jesus halts the Anti-Christs NATURAL ORDER of events via his Supernatural Return. The Woman {Israel} stays in hiding for 1260 days. The Troubles thus last for 1260 days. The 7th Vial ends the Beasts reign on the 1260 day of his reign. You break the law of Ocamms Razor with every post, you make things tat are simply, convoluted. 

All will know when he comes, they will not know the day of the Pre Trib Rapture. 

Rev. 17 and 18 are Parenthetical Citations, they both start at the Mid-way point with the opening of the First Seal, chapter 17 is the Harlot getting judged by the 10 Kings & the Beast, they kill of all Religions thus All False Religions are JUDGED. Rev. 18 is Babylon {The Whole World} getting Judged by God via the Seal, Trumpet and Vial Judgments. 

He comes in Rev. 16, IT IS DONE, Jesus lads on Mt. Zion. You will never get it until you get the Chronological Order of the BoR right. 

I FOLLOW Occam's razor perfectly. I don't use my imagination. I read what is written and repeat in here - and people deny it, PROVING they don't follow what is written. 

Since you want to rewrite the book, I have no more to say except this: God is going to face you one day and ask you WHY you have rewritten His book! God is going to tell you that He WROTE IT in perfect order! 

I really hope rewriting the book is going to work out for you. Somehow I don't think it will.

[Revelation Man]

26 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Wow! just WOW. You are here to teach others when you need to be taught. 

Get this straight once and for all: in Rev. 5 John wrote that Jesus suddenly appeared in the throne room and then sent the Holy Spirit down. You KNOW that Jesus send the Holy Spirit down around 32 AD but you just can't believe that is what John wrote here and why he wrote it. That is because you can't believe in chapter 4 that Jesus was not in the throne room because John was seeing a vision of the past. You can't believe John when he told of a search for one worthy to open that book and "no man was found." You can't seem to understand the reason why "no man was found" is because of TIMING: Jesus had not yet risen from dead in the timing inside the vision. You can't seem to believe that time passed, Jesus rose from the dead and was THEN found worthy. You can't seem to understand this was a vision of the past for John.

It WAS a vision in John's past. God is painting us a picture of the time just before He rose from the dead - TO the time He rose from the dead - and then the time He sent Mary away, ascended into the throne room, took the book from the Father and began opening the seals. 

The truth is, by not understanding the timing of the first 5 seals, your theories are out of whack for the rest of the book!  While John is in the church age, you imagine it is future to us! You are over 2000 years off. 

The first Six Seals are all opened instantaneously one after the other  There is no way you can prove this by scripture. It is your imagination.  As time goes on and you reveal more and more of your theories, I find you get farther and farther from the intent of the Author.

the first four seals are the Anti-Christ  How strange when John does not even see the Antichrist rise up until chapter 13!  Of course your theory is impossible when one considers the actual scriptures.  I guess you just blew over 6:8: you lump all four togther while John puts only 2, 3, and 4 together. Don't take my word for it: go back and read it:  THESE THREE ride together: the one with the  sword, the one with hunger, and the one titled death. AGain you are miles off in your theory.

Get this straight once and for all: don't write this nonsense again: LEARN: 

13:⁵ And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

LEARN! This is where the 42 month countdown BEGINS: here in chapter 13, a midpoint chapter.  In other words, his 42 months begins shortly after the midpoint, and goes past the 7th vial that ends the week, to the day Jesus returns, perhaps 30 days AFTER the 7th vial.  Meanwhile the seals are CHURCH AGE. Again I find your theory 2000 years off. And you are here to teach others? 

James 3:1 Not many of you should become teachers...

Again, get this straight and learn: 

SEal 1, opened in 32 AD to represent the gospel sent out.

Seal 2

Seal 3

Seal 4 These three riders ride together: the Sword, Famine, and Death. They are to represent the devil's attempts to stop the church. God has limited them to 1/4 of the earth in their theater of operation.  They have failed: the gospel left that 1/4 of the earth in the first thousand years. 

Seal 5 is the martyrs of the church age: they are told they must WAIT....and here we find the first hint of a long wait. So the first seal was opened immediately after Jesus God the book.  Seals 2 through 4 were opened soon after.  Seal  soon after also. Stephen was surely in that group. 

Seal 6 is first the rapture of the church, then the sudden destruction start of the Day of the Lord. The rapture will trigger the Day. 

Once you learn these things, you will be well on your way to understanding the rest of the book. Miss this and you miss much that follows. 

The WEEK (which includes "the tribulation" and the days of great tribulation begins with the 7th seal. The midpoint of the week (the abomination) will be marked by the 7th trumpet. The week will end with the 7th vial Learn this and you know the basic outline of the book.

from the time the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem/Israel, there will be a time, times and half   NO NO NO! How could anyone mix things up so thoroughly?  EVERY countdown to the end will begin close to the MIDPOINT: the midpoint is proven by John's 5 mentions of the 3.5 year period of time. All five are events that will begin near the midpoint and go to the end of the week - except the 42 months of authority that will go past the end of the week. Did you not see in Daniel 12 the starting point? It is the abomination and the cessation of the daily sacrifices. 

we know it is 1260 days from the time Israel/Jerusalem is conquered until the Second Coming of Jesus ends all these things/wonders.    Did you just not understand it is the 6th vial, LATE in the 70th week, is where the spirits are sent out to call the armies of the world to Israel to fight? In other words, it will be near the END of the 1260 days when Jerusalem will be attacked. 

The two witnesses show up just 3.5 days before the midpoint of the week. They testify for 1260 days  - which takes them to 3.5 days before the end of the week. They are killed and lay dead for those 3.5 days. They are resurrected on the last day or the 1260th day of the week - at the 7th vial. This is ONE mention in the bible of 1260 days. It has nothing to do with Israel being conquered. 

When the man of sin enters the temple, and declares he is God, the daily sacrifices will cease. It will be the abomination event Jesus spoke of. Jesus said, when people SEE that abomination event, they are to flee. We see this fleeing for 1260 days in 12:6. Again the second mention of 1260 days and again NOTHING about Jerusalem being conquered. Therefore I find you are miles off from the truth again. It seems you just imagine things and then insist they are truth. 

Again, Jesus does NOT COME on the 1260th day.  the last day of the week will be at the 7th vial in chapter 16. jesus does not return until chapter 19. 

 I have said my piece, I don't chew my gum twice. No use reading what you wrote so I shall not reply, you start of saying the Seals were opened 2000 years ago and we are supposed to carry on a conversation, there is no there there brother, God Bless. I don't keep going over the same non issue over and over again, it's just a waste of time for us to debate it. 

[iamlamad]

6 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Not quite a book of history.When you take a scripture and say it means this or that then you are applying your interpretation to that scripture.Thats what the pharisees did with maccabees.They gave thier interpretation.

Jesus did not adhere to thier interpretation.Why do you?

The book of Maccabees told very accurately what Antiochus did. It was not an "interpretation: it was written as a history book. Josephus backed them up or repeated much of what they said. We can't go to the library and pick out a book on "Antiochus pollutes the temple of God." I doubt such a book has been written. I suspect the book of Maccabees is the best history we have of what happened back then. I did find this:

Antiochus IV Epiphanes in Jerusalem

Daniel R. Schwartz
Dept. of Jewish History, Hebrew University

Perhaps it is a doctoral thesis or just an article. Again I ask you, do you not believe Antiochus did terrible things to the Jews? Perhaps you did not get a history course on it, but you should know it anyway as bible history.  By the way, Jesus NEVER denied what Antiochus did. Today we have people denying the Holocaust. That does not mean it did not happen. The truth is, we have no right to rewrite history. 

[iamlamad]

7 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Ive read Maccabees and the antiquities of the jews.

I dont follow the blind Pharisees whos interpretations these belong.If you wish to believe as the pharisees and that God lives in the building those pharisees occupied you go right ahead.

By the way,watch out for pig.Im sure someome will slaughter one today .Those things are thought to cause great tribulation by some.

Oh! Finally you admit to reading it? And apparently you believe he slaughtered a pig on the altar.  Perhaps you also know that stopped the daily sacrifices and it took 2300 evening morning sacrifices missed before the temple could be cleansed. 

[iamlamad]

1 minute ago, Da Puppers said:

 You seem to be trying to say that the "tribulation" that the world experiences (in the 3.5 years before the AoD takes place) is the result of Satan's wrath and not God's.   Does the final 7 years (aka the 70th week)  begin as the DOTL or not?  [I.e., which comes first... the DOTL or the AoD? ]

The PuP 

No, that is not at all what I have said. The Day of the Lord starts first (6th seal) and is also the Day of His wrath. Then, perhaps 10 days later the 7th seal starts the 70th week. God is still angry. The 7 trumpets sound, and God is still angry. Finally the 7 vials are poured out FILLED with God's wrath. 

I find God's wrath throughout the entire 70th week. In comparison, Satan's wrath begins at the midpoint when he is cast down. Yes, God is angry then too. The truth then is that God's wrath and Satan's wrath are concurrent.  They cannot be separated by time.

So the DAY begins first, then the Week. I believe the 6th seal will come on the ending of the Feast of trumpets and the 10 days of Awe will follow. Then the 7th seal will be opened. 

[Shilohsfoal]

7 hours ago, iamlamad said:

The book of Maccabees told very accurately what Antiochus did. It was not an "interpretation: it was written as a history book. Josephus backed them up or repeated much of what they said. We can't go to the library and pick out a book on "Antiochus pollutes the temple of God." I doubt such a book has been written. I suspect the book of Maccabees is the best history we have of what happened back then. I did find this:

Antiochus IV Epiphanes in Jerusalem

Daniel R. Schwartz
Dept. of Jewish History, Hebrew University

Perhaps it is a doctoral thesis or just an article. Again I ask you, do you not believe Antiochus did terrible things to the Jews? Perhaps you did not get a history course on it, but you should know it anyway as bible history.  By the way, Jesus NEVER denied what Antiochus did. Today we have people denying the Holocaust. That does not mean it did not happen. The truth is, we have no right to rewrite history. 

Jesus never referenced the falsr intetpretatipn of the pharisees as you do.

Jesus plainly stated the abomination of desolation would be a sign of his coming at the end of the age.That alone shows the interpretation of the pharisees to be false.

Daniel even states the abomination of desolation would be set up at the time of the end.What makes you think the time of the end was in 167 bc?

[Shilohsfoal]

7 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Oh! Finally you admit to reading it? And apparently you believe he slaughtered a pig on the altar.  Perhaps you also know that stopped the daily sacrifices and it took 2300 evening morning sacrifices missed before the temple could be cleansed. 

I never said i hadnt read Maccabees.Ive read the Quran and Hadith also but that doesnt make them the word of God.

Maccabees is a false interpretation of prophecy.The time of the end was not in 167 bc.Daniels prophecies were not fulfilled in 167 bc.

There is a reason why Jews who follow the phariseees teaching can,not understand what is soon to befall them.They wont even understand the armed forces soon to occupy Jerusalem,under Trump.All they willknow is the conscription is no longer and they will be glad.They will not understand anything just as you do not understand.You have ignored the entire chapter because you put so much faith the the interpretation of the pharisees.

 

[Revelation Man]

5 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Jesus never referenced the falsr intetpretatipn of the pharisees as you do.

Jesus plainly stated the abomination of desolation would be a sign of his coming at the end of the age.That alone shows the interpretation of the pharisees to be false.

Daniel even states the abomination of desolation would be set up at the time of the end.What makes you think the time of the end was in 167 bc?

They weren't WRONG per se about Rome being the Fourth Beast, if the Jews had not rejected Christ there would have been no inserted Church Age. So they were right about the signs pointing to 70 AD, they problem is they couldn't read the signs of the Suffering Servant, all they saw was a Conquering Hero.

I have never read much about them collectively, but the fact is you yourself misread the bible as they did in some instances. The Jews were blinded because of their rejection of Jesus as their Messiah. 

We all see darkly, the difference is Jesus called them Devils, meaning they were of Satan in that they did not understand Righteousness only comes from God by Faith, they thought their "ACTIONS" made them worthy via the Law !! Satan thought he was more worthy than God. Its a fatal flaw.

[Shilohsfoal]

3 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

They weren't WRONG per se about Rome being the Fourth Beast, if the Jews had not rejected Christ there would have been no inserted Church Age. So they were right about the signs pointing to 70 AD, they problem is they couldn't read the signs of the Suffering Servant, all they saw was a Conquering Hero.

I have never read much about them collectively, but the fact is you yourself misread the bible as they did in some instances. The Jews were blinded because of their rejection of Jesus as their Messiah. 

We all see darkly, the difference is Jesus called them Devils, meaning they were of Satan in that they did not understand Righteousness only comes from God by Faith, they thought their "ACTIONS" made them worthy via the Law !! Satan thought he was more worthy than God. Its a fatal flaw.

You seem to have missed the conversation.We are talking about 167 bc,not 70 ad.The Pharisees did not interpret the abomination of desolation as being anything in 70 ad.