Morgan Freeman, when asked if he blieves in God...

[Takoda]

58 minutes ago, cantankerous5 said:

so true. What does Jesus say about the Father? That is all we really know about the Father, except that Jesus established a Church and that Church speaks for Jesus. The original Christian Church was/is the Catholic Church.

Right from the earliest decades there were several rival Christian churches/denominations. It is only with Constantine and the Council of Nicea that the Roman Catholic Church came into existence. Although I have been a Christian for over 75 years I am now convinced That Jesus had no intention about founding a "church". I think that his real intent was a complete reform of second temple Judaism. It is certainly true that those who followed very quickly lost that vision.

[cantankerous5]

11 minutes ago, Takoda said:

Right from the earliest decades there were several rival Christian churches/denominations. It is only with Constantine and the Council of Nicea that the Roman Catholic Church came into existence. Although I have been a Christian for over 75 years I am now convinced That Jesus had no intention about founding a "church". I think that his real intent was a complete reform of second temple Judaism. It is certainly true that those who followed very quickly lost that vision.

that is the history you have been taught. I have taught myself about the history of the Church, have read many reliable (hopefully) books on the topic. Constantine did not begin the Catholic Church, Jesus Christ did. How do I know that? Well, I don't feel like writing even a small book to explain how I know and maybe you dont feel like reading one. But the long and short of it is that Jesus DID start a Church: "I will build My Church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it"--(Mt 16:18)  and so, no Constantine or anyone else is going to destroy the Church Christ himself started--or begin a different one. All he did was make it legal for people to be Christian. That needed to be done of course (Jesus said he would BUILD His Church.. He knew there would be glitches along the way, knew human nature better than anyone.. knew there would always be room for improvement..)

The problem i have w/ the Catholic Church is that.. it is being corroded, corrupted.. There is so much evil i n  the Church, i don't even want to bother w/ it sometimes. And yet, the Real Presence of Christ dwells inside the walls of all Catholic Churches (well, most anyhow.. I tend to think even  that is changing.. the worst tragedy known to man..)

sigh

 

Edited June 10, 2019 by cantankerous5
clarity

[Takoda]

3 hours ago, cantankerous5 said:

that is the history you have been taught. I have taught myself about the history of the Church, have read many reliable (hopefully) books on the topic. Constantine did not begin the Catholic Church, Jesus Christ did. How do I know that? Well, I don't feel like writing even a small book to explain how I know and maybe you dont feel like reading one. But the long and short of it is that Jesus DID start a Church: "I will build My Church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it"--(Mt 16:18)  and so, no Constantine or anyone else is going to destroy the Church Christ himself started--or begin a different one. All he did was make it legal for people to be Christian. That needed to be done of course (Jesus said he would BUILD His Church.. He knew there would be glitches along the way, knew human nature better than anyone.. knew there would always be room for improvement..)

The problem i have w/ the Catholic Church is that.. it is being corroded, corrupted.. There is so much evil i n  the Church, i don't even want to bother w/ it sometimes. And yet, the Real Presence of Christ dwells inside the walls of all Catholic Churches (well, most anyhow.. I tend to think even  that is changing.. the worst tragedy known to man..)

sigh

 

I know my Christian history very well too. In fact in 1961 I was given an award for apologetics from a Catholic University. My studies have taken me to different conclusions. In my opinion Pope Francis is the greatest hope for the RCC since Pope John XXIII.

[JohnD]

In my tagline (below my Icon) you will see Location: Spirit House of Israel... which is what Takoda probably means by 'reformed second temple Judaism.'

God commissioned Moses to build the tabernacle.

David commissioned Solomon to build an immobile stone temple (that he was forbidden by God to build; 2 Samuel 7:12-13) and attributed it to God commissioning Solomon; 2 Chronicles 2:1 / 1 Chronicles 28 reads as a misinterpretation of 2 Samuel 7:12-13.

1. The Bible does not say the Lord says these things in 1 Chronicles 28 but that David said the Lord  said them (I have discussed this with non-Messianic rabbis of repute whose ultimate conclusion was that they agreed there is no biblical commission from God to Solomon to build the temple, but that since one was built, historically, it must be [in their opinion] the will of God). I cited 1 Samuel 8 as another example of what was done historically (the monarchy) that was clearly against the will of God but became the norm despite it not being his will (God condescended to allow both the monarchy and the temple).

2. Solomon's kingdom does not last forever.

3. Solomon broke nearly every Levitical sacrificial Law in the temple's dedication.

4. Hebrews 8:5 says nothing about Solomon or the temple.

Hebrews 8:5 (NASB95)
5 who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, “See,” He says, “that you make all things according to the pattern which was shown you on the mountain.”

The temple is a distorted representation of the mobile tabernacle (that's outer shell was once living).

I could go on, but this is derailing the topic enough already.

Jesus was in fact endeavoring to get Old Covenant Judaism back on track to usher in New Covenant Judaism.

God's interpretation of 2 Samuel 7:12-13 is Zechariah 6:12-13.

2 Samuel 7:12–13 (NASB95)
12 “When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom.
13 “He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.

Zechariah 6:12–13 (NASB95)
12 “Then say to him, ‘Thus says the Lord of hosts, “Behold, a man whose name is Branch, for He will branch out from where He is; and He will build the temple of the Lord.
13 “Yes, it is He who will build the temple of the Lord, and He who will bear the honor and sit and rule on His throne. Thus, He will be a priest on His throne, and the counsel of peace will be between the two offices.” ’

And the temple he builds is us (believers in him):

1 Corinthians 3:16–18 (NASB95)
16 Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
17 If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.
18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you thinks that he is wise in this age, he must become foolish, so that he may become wise.

Matthew 16:18 (NASB95)
18 “I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.

John 2:18–21 (NASB95)
18 The Jews then said to Him, “What sign do You show us as your authority for doing these things?”
19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
20 The Jews then said, “It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?”
21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body.

Romans 7:4 (NASB95)
4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.       ← (Galatians 3:24-25)

Ephesians 2 and other places also speak of the tearing down of walls between the physical Jews and physical Gentiles to produce one Spirit House: Israel

Genesis 22:17–18 (NASB95)
17 indeed I will greatly bless you, and I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your seed shall possess the gate of their enemies.
18 “In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed*, because you have obeyed My voice.”

Two programs.

The physical (sand by the sea)

The spiritual (stars of heaven)

* John 3:16–18 (NASB95)
16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
17 “For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
18 “He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Judaism is established by the Law of Moses to prove the futility of attempting salvation by any other means than faith alone in the Jewish Messiah. This is the reformation and the ultimate goal of all things since before there ever was an Earth (Revelation 13:8).

The established Law of Moses also serves to judge all who reject the Jewish Messiah.

Christianity is actually New Testament Judaism.

The firestorm of opposition to these things stems from the traditions of man (which nullifies the Word of God Mark 7:13) and pride and prejudice. 

Pride on the part of physical Israel.

Prejudice on the part of antisemitic (physical) Gentiles both believing and unbelieving.

But none of the three changes the fact that these things are biblically proven true.

[Blood Bought 1953]

On 6/10/2019 at 4:31 PM, Takoda said:

I know my Christian history very well too. In fact in 1961 I was given an award for apologetics from a Catholic University. My studies have taken me to different conclusions. In my opinion Pope Francis is the greatest hope for the RCC since Pope John XXIII.

 

Pope Francis believes in “ another Gospel” that Paul warned about.The  catholic doctrine clearly states that if you believe in “ justification by faith alone”, you will be damned .That's nowhere in the Bible. I suppose we will see someday. “ Let anyone who preaches a different Gospel than the one that you have heard me preach be accursed” That is Biblical.

[Mike Mclees]

On ‎6‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 8:10 PM, JohnD said:

...said he believes in God, but he believes we (man) invented God.

The question is a generic as it is cowardice. "Do you believe in God?"

"Do you believe there is a God?"

Higher power... mother nature... karma... some nondescript being or thing to blame for everything...

The 82 year old actor is right about one thing... man did invent most versions of god in the world.

"Do you believe in the one true God? Creator of all things created? Who revealed himself to man and authenticated his message by his very nature to see the future? Who became a man and laid that life down on a cross to rise from the tomb  three days later to save all who believe in his name? Do you believe in the Jesus of the Word of God?"

Most believers are too afraid to ask so directly.

Or they are concerned somebody they ask might prove them wrong for believing in Jesus of the Word of God.

That's ignorance and cowardice.

Anyone who learns from the Word of God why we believe what we believe is totally assured of the truth. 

 

Morgan freeman may not be religious. You  can ask people about God and you will get every kind of answer. God is not the issue, but Christ is. God is not rejected, but Jesus is.  

[Sower]

On 6/10/2019 at 3:31 PM, Takoda said:

I know my Christian history very well too. In fact in 1961 I was given an award for apologetics from a Catholic University. My studies have taken me to different conclusions. In my opinion Pope Francis is the greatest hope for the RCC since Pope John XXIII.

"I know my Christian history very well too"

Would be better if you knew the word of God, and the wisdom of God,
and the true gospel of Jesus Christ.

If you (really) knew your "Christian church history, then you have read
  "The dark history of the Catholic Church"  by Michael Kerrigan
       cheap, e bay. or free PDF down load.
If you have read it (It's fully documented-and backed up in YOUR world history books)
and you still believe the RCC, I'm sorry for you.
I love all Catholics. I was one for thirty years.
  Then I got saved.

Pray for discernment!

[simplejeff]

Anyone who rejects Yahushua, also rejects Yahuweh.    As written in Scripture.

There is no hope for the *&popes*&   they are always opposed to the truth,  they are always sons of disobedience.

Scholarship in one of their schools means nothing except proficiency in sinning and in error  and in defending what is wrong and promoting it.

[Takoda]

4 hours ago, Sower said:

"I know my Christian history very well too"

Would be better if you knew the word of God, and the wisdom of God,
and the true gospel of Jesus Christ.

If you (really) knew your "Christian church history, then you have read
  "The dark history of the Catholic Church"  by Michael Kerrigan
       cheap, e bay. or free PDF down load.
If you have read it (It's fully documented-and backed up in YOUR world history books)
and you still believe the RCC, I'm sorry for you.
I love all Catholics. I was one for thirty years.
  Then I got saved.

Pray for discernment!

We have walked similar paths. I too was a Catholic  for my first 30 years. Another good read is "Vicars of Christ --- the dark side of the Vatican" by Fr. Peter DeRosa.  Hard to find because the book is out of print and he has been silenced.

Edited June 13, 2019 by Takoda

[Sower]

2 hours ago, Takoda said:

We have walked similar paths. I too was a Catholic  for my first 30 years. Another good read is "Vicars of Christ --- the dark side of the Vatican" by Fr. Peter DeRosa.  Hard to find because the book is out of print and he has been silenced.

Consider me confused.
Why this post;

"In my opinion Pope Francis is the greatest hope for the RCC since Pope John XXIII."