trinity

[DearOldDad]

20 hours ago, Behold said:

There is one more thing That God cannot ever do.  If you are born again, He cannot ever hold you accountable for your "sin" in eternity,  and that is because He has already Judged Jesus on the Cross for your sin.

God will never Judge Jesus for your sin, and then later in Eternity Judge you.

Jesus "obtained eternal redemption for the born again (us)." ..... and "eternal" , that word, does not allow for it to ever stop.  If you are born again, then you are redeemed by the blood of Jesus, forever.

That assumes lack of "Repentance" after having been saved. If one is baptized into Christ, put on Christ, and later falls to temptation, and fails to repent, He is subject to the judgment.

Edited April 18, 2020 by DearOldDad

[Behold]

13 minutes ago, DearOldDad said:

That assumes lack of "Repentance" after having been saved. If one is baptized into Christ, put on Christ, and later falls to temptation, and fails to repent, He is subject to the judgment.

There is no "Judgement" for the Christian.  That was already given to Christ on the Cross.   So, there IS your "judgment" for all your sin, its that CROSS and that DEATH of Jesus.

This is the "CUP" that Jesus was talking about in Gethsemane when He said "If possible (Father) let this CUP.... pass from me".. And that CUP was the coming Judgment of God due the Sin of the World that came to fall on Christ, who bore all the sin of the World, upon Himself.  That is the Judgment that all the born again will never face, in Eternity.

The judgement for the sin of the world has been paid in full on the cross, but this payment, this forgiveness is not APPIED unless you become BORN AGAIN.

What you will face down here, is a spiritual law that was not removed from this earth on that Cross. And that is....the fact of "sowing and reaping.... or "be sure you sin will find you out"...

So, while God will never "double Judge" the Born again, the law of sowing and reaping will  execute the pain of consequence upon any unbeliever or any born again Christian who commits deeds that call this into play.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Behold

[DearOldDad]

On 4/17/2020 at 4:05 PM, Behold said:

There is one more thing That God cannot ever do.  If you are born again, He cannot ever hold you accountable for your "sin" in eternity,  and that is because He has already Judged Jesus on the Cross for your sin.

God will never Judge Jesus for your sin, and then later in Eternity Judge you.

Jesus "obtained eternal redemption for the born again (us)." ..... and "eternal" , that word, does not allow for it to ever stop.  If you are born again, then you are redeemed by the blood of Jesus, forever.

Are you familiar with "Ye shall judge angels"---

2 Cor 5:4-11
For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. 6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight:

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

 

[Behold]

25 minutes ago, DearOldDad said:

Are you familiar with "Ye shall judge angels"---

 

11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

 

Yes, im familiar with the fact that we the born again will rule and reign with Christ in Jerusalem.   Im also familiar with the verse where Jesus said "ye are gods", but ive not yet been able to create a Universe or walk on water, so, let me have a little bit more time to get that one up and running.

And yes, the Born again will arrive to the "Bema" seat and our WORKS we have done "in the Body", our lifetime of deeds, ... = those done for the Lord, will be evaluated as "wood , hay , stubble" , etc, as Jesus will evaluate all we ever did for Him as his "body of Christ".. based on our Heart Motive we had when we were doing the works.

However, its our WORKS that are evaluated, not US.   We are not JUDGED THERE... Its our WORKS that are evaluate for purity..... at the "judgement seat of Christ"

Our SIN, our lifetime of SINNING< has already been JUDGED ON THE CROSS< as Jesus DIED for all those...... That is SALVATION.

Edited April 19, 2020 by Behold

[DearOldDad]

29 minutes ago, DearOldDad said:

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ;

5 minutes ago, Behold said:

Yes, im familiar with the fact that we the born again will rule and reign with Christ in Jerusalem.   Im also familiar with the verse where Jesus said "ye are gods", but ive not yet been able to create a Universe or walk on water, so, let me have a little bit more time to get that one up and running.

And yes, the Born again will arrive to the "Bema" seat and our WORKS we have done "in the Body", our lifetime of deeds, ... = those done for the Lord, will be evaluated as "wood , hay , stubble" , etc, as Jesus will evaluate all we ever did for Him as his "body of Christ".. based on our Heart Motive we had when we were doing the works.

However, its our WORKS that are evaluated, not US.   We are not JUDGED THERE... Its our WORKS that are evaluate for purity..... 

Our SIN, our lifetime of SINNING< has already been JUDGED ON THE CROSS< as Jesus DIED for all those...... That is SALVATION.

 

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ;

You are speaking of the crucifixion. I am speaking of "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ;"

The original point I attempted to make, but got sidetracked by my ignorance of negotiating the board, was "Ye shall judge angels." The point of the judgement after salvation, is to demonstrate for angels who sinned (Gen 6:1-6) and respond to punishment with "I could not help myself" - Jesus will correct their error by pointing out "If MAN in flesh could refrain, SO COULD YOU WHO WERE IN SPIRIT."

Thus judge we the angels, i.,e., thus were we the standard by which angels shall be judged.

Edited April 19, 2020 by DearOldDad
qorrext spellynge

[Behold]

10 minutes ago, DearOldDad said:

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ;

 

 

The judgment seat of Christ is not the "crucifixion" .

Its the Judgment seat of Christ.

Its this.   2 Corinthians 5:10... ""For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."""

Notice the context is "things done in HIS body"......>Not yours.

That is the "Body of Christ".

So, this is the REWARDS, Judgment seat, where you are rewarded for the deeds you did for the Lord, all your life, based on your  HEART MOTIVE for doing them.

Edited April 19, 2020 by Behold

[DearOldDad]

On 6/18/2019 at 7:54 AM, other one said:

one can make god out of anything...    the Hebrew writers use the same word for describing Moloch, Baal or any numbers of entities the same as what we refer to as our God.   It works like this:

 

We make a big production out of the trinity when it is really not mysterious or hard to see, we just need to get past what we have done with the definition of the word god.

That is n0t the problem nearly as much as how the Trinity doctrine was invented. The developers of the doctrine began with inventing a word NOT found in scripture- "omo-ousion" which means same substance, then used THAT word to develop the controversy that has endangered the world for almost two thousand years;

"omo-ousian," a term not found in scripture, yet was invented and used to "EXPLAIN" what the scriptures failed to discuss.

Three of the earliest doctrines promoting such error come in the form of argument about "omo-ousian" a Greek word from which is derived three doctrines; 1st; "same substance" which say Jesus is the same substance as the father; 2nd; co-equality, which states Jesus is equal with the Father; and 3rd; co-essentiallity, which states that the trinity share in all the essentiallities. All are from the same Greek word made up by theologians.

When the Emperor Constantine invited over 1500 bishops from around the Christian world to attend a council at Nicea in 325, most of the bishops stayed away because they knew what was about to take place, and wanted no part of it.

Millions of people have become victims to a mis-spelling in a misunderstanding over a religious controversy, in the Byzantium Empire of the Greco-Roman world.

Arius insisted that the nature of Christ is described best by the Greek word "homoisian," meaning that the creator, the Redeemer, and the Paraklete-Comforter are of a "Like" nature.

The "Orthodox" position was that they are "homo-ousian," of the "Same" nature. Millions of people have died for the difference, and the Eastern church slipped into obscurity, when compared with the Western. Islam was able to insert itself, and establish itself as an equal in the East.

It first appeared historically, in the council of Nicea in 325 a.d. and was still being debated in 451, at the council of Chalcedon, at which time it was given "ecumenical recognition" as the "creed of 150 fathers"  and accepted as orthodox, together with the old Nicene Creed, as "the creed of 318 fathers." And the battle was joined. It has not diminished over time.

In the old testament omou is the closest we can come to omo-ousian, and it is found in Job 34:29, and does not even come close to the meaning of omo-ousian.

Job 34:29 "When he giveth quietness, who then can make trouble? and when he hideth his face, who then can behold him? whether it be done against a nation, or against a man [only]":[omou] genitive masculine singular adjective] to be of  one mind.

In the new testament we find:
John 4:36 And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice [together].[omou = adverb

John 20:4 So they ran both [omou = together]: and the other disciple did outrun Peter, and came first to the sepulchre.[omou / adverb]

John 21:2 There were [omou / together] Simon Peter, and Thomas called Didymus, and Nathanael of Cana in Galilee, and the sons of Zebedee, and two other of his disciples.[omou / adverb]

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with [one accord] in one place.[omou ab][adverb]

 

 

[other one]

6 minutes ago, DearOldDad said:

That is n0t the problem nearly as much as how the Trinity doctrine was invented. The developers of the doctrine began with inventing a word NOT found in scripture- "omo-ousion" which means same substance, then used THAT word to develop the controversy that has endangered the world for almost two thousand years;

You are looking at church history and I'm looking at scripture itself....    I don't understand the trinity because someone told me it's that way, I understand it because putting things together in God's word makes it mandatory to be that way.

[Behold]

2 hours ago, DearOldDad said:

 "omo-ousion" which means same substance, then used THAT word to develop the controversy that has endangered the world for almost two thousand years;

 

Exactly how does the teaching of the Trinity, "endanger the world for almost 2000 yrs"?

It "endangers the WORLD, for amost 2000 years, you say?

How is that?

[DearOldDad]

On 4/16/2020 at 2:55 PM, NonProfitProphet said:

I’ve found it more effective, if the topic has presented itself, to present the image of a married couple:

According to the Bible they are “one,” yet they are two people. They are a singular couple- sounds like an oxymoron, but the truth is they are plural but functioning as one.

Deuteronomy 6:4 is fascinating- It states that יְהוָ֥ה is Elohim (plural: gods), and then immediately confirms יְהוָ֥ה is ONE. (Singular, but in the sense of being united, still alluding to the plurality within a single deity.

Elohim spoke to Himself as plural, and made man in “our” image- Singular; a singular image to depict a “we.” 

"Sheep" is a plural word exactly like Elohiym, and a shepherd had 100 sheep, and left the 99 sheep to find the one lost sheep.

Elohiym is a category, not  a name - Meaning something like "IMMORTAL."

God is Elohiym; Judges are Elohiym: All those unto whom the word of God has come are Elohiym.

Psalm 82:6 "I have said, Ye are (Elohiym) gods; and all of you are children of the most High."

Jesus quoted this passage as authority in John 10:34, to justify His statement "I said I am the Son of God."

Later, after playing word games with Jesus, the Jews testified at his Roman trial, "He made himself the son of God."John 19:7  -  Thus showing that they knew what his words meant all along.

When God spoke to Wisdom, He recognized her as Elohiym, when He said "Let US make man in our image." He was speaking of Himself and the Elohiym Wisdom, who had been born to God prior to the creation. (See the eighth Proverb verses 22 thru 31).