God's love and omniscience.

[Justin Adams]

Yeah, the frozen chosen...

[Justin Adams]

1 hour ago, Tzephanyahu said:

Interesting comment.  I believe it is.

I think no one would ever accept the title "lukewarm".  However, we must accept that someone who was lukewarm might not see it.

If we are the Laodicean Church, prophesied in Revelation, then the majority of the Church would be lukewarm today.  Therefore, the leaders and teachers would have lukewarm teachings and feelings, but thinking they are rich and prosperous (another description of Laodicea).  Laodicea means "judging the people" and I think it's fair to say, even of this forum, that many Christians can be quick to judge others - both other Christians and Atheists.

Maybe that's why our posts read the way they do.  We have grown up in an age and with teachers that, in general, have been lukewarm.  

This is all generalisation. There is always a remnant, of Christians and teachers.  They just seem to be the minority - as I believe they do in every Church Age.

Love & Shalom

I do agree that it is difficult (but not impossible) to stir up folk to good works and to try and offset the very poor teaching all of us had in church. We should overlook that really considering a preacher has but half an hour before the dinner is overdone or what not. One hour even cannot easily offset all the crapola that folk imbibe during a normal week. I think we forgot that life (like any good college) requires people to learn in their 'free' time. I guess Christians just forget to study. So then they latch onto some easy-peasy message that they half heard and spout that to whoever is listening. Study ideas have left many without the vaguest notion of what they might be meant to learn. Or how to learn since many preacher types I have known kinda frown on the self-taught member of the congregation in the general ministry idea that they are too dumb to even ask the right questions. So all are encourage to check their brains in at the church door and be ready to suck on the teat of whatever is the latest lesson the preacher got from his on-line 'allowed' repository.

Funny how RCC and earlier churchified pagan ideas still seem apparent 2k years later along with some very bad doctrine that even the church fathers argued about for many many years.

Many of the ancient texts are VERBOTEN because they might give a dangerous idea to someone that is 'heretical'. However, the members can watch whatever garbage they like and read any old novel during the week.

For me, ten minutes of 'the news' is enough to make me feel quite ill. So to suppose studying Josephus or Enoch or Jasher or any of the other 'banned books' is going to adversely effect ones world-view is highly unlikely. Just watch the news and see what people actually think about - now that scrambles my mind quite badly by comparison.

I have sadly heard some absolutely WRONG interpretations of scriptures from the leaders that I feel quite nauseated often. It is like there is a major language barrier, and I just have to withdraw when that kind of thing happens.

I suppose we have all had a theological lobotomy to some extent. I am unsure how to 'Let my people think.' as one evangelist puts it.

Edited August 1, 2019 by Justin Adams

[Tzephanyahu]

17 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

For me, ten minutes of 'the news' is enough to make me feel quite ill. So to suppose studying Josephus or Enoch or Jasher or any of the other 'banned books' is going to adversely effect ones world-view is highly unlikely. Just watch the news and see what people actually think about - now that scrambles my mind quite badly by comparison.

Amen brother.

"My people die for a lack of knowledge" as Yahweh says in Hosea. 

But I'm so encouraged to read your post and to know that more out there think like this.  Strangely, it reassures me and gives me great hope.

[thomas t]

On 8/1/2019 at 8:08 PM, Bawcash said:

The obvious answer to this is: Wouldn't it have been more merciful to kill him on the spot, rather than condemning a countless number of souls to eternal damnation and torment?

 

Hi Baw,

@missmuffet says we don't question God's plan. That's very wise. Must have come from someone old .

But we can discuss it...

So your alternative would be, kill Adam and have no human life at all? Hard to understand...

Last time this question came up and I became aware of it, I went down another road questioning God's purported all-time omniscience. Please take a look at this thread here... But this time I won't argue if you say God is and has always been and always will be omniscient - staying with my opinion, however.

This time, I want to point out that many people already live in some sort of hell, in my opinion. For me materialism is hell. People judge you, and themselves, according to their bank account. If you are unable to meet expectations then they condemn you, ... but nothing against you. They would condemn themselves, too. Thus they make life hell for themselves, I think, because their self-esteem hinges on money and other material things. They could make different choices and accept Yeshua as a savior.

Yeshua is love and he makes it clear that he accepts everyone. Not for money reasons or because of what they do. Just because of what they are.

Perfect.

Regards,

Thomas

 

[Prycejosh1987]

On 7/22/2019 at 12:27 PM, Bawcash said:

How do I answer this question without falling back to the free will cop out answer? If God is omniscient and loves us the why did he create us knowing that we would fall, therefore knowingly condemning countless souls to hell for all eternity. That is not a very loving thing to do.

It is all based on choice. We shouldnt not be forced to do anything, and love that freely flows is much more worthy of heaven in the eyes of God.