Do you believe in Predestination?

[Omegaman 3.0]

All Bible believing Christians believe in predestination, they just disagree about what it means!

[ilovejcsog]

Your post sounds sort of condemning.  They must believe in predestination or they are not Christians.  Or maybe judgemental and not condemning?

[Alive]

3 minutes ago, ilovejcsog said:

Your post sounds sort of condemning.  They must believe in predestination or they are not Christians.  Or maybe judgemental and not condemning?

That isn't at all what he is saying. The word predestined is clearly used in the Bible, so if you believe the scriptures are Truth, then you must somehow deal with what that means. That is all that Omega is pointing out. His point is inclusive rather than exclusive.

[David1701]

6 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

All Bible believing Christians believe in predestination, they just disagree about what it means!

Some of them don't believe that predestination actually is predestination (deciding someone's destiny in advance) and others believe it as written.

If someone believes that God predestines those whom he foresaw were going to believe, then the "predestination" is a meaningless tautology.  It only means something if the predestination CHANGES what would have happened otherwise.

[Guest theElect777]

It would be ungodly to twist these Verses to mean anything else but predestination.

 

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

[Alive]

2 minutes ago, David1701 said:

Some of them don't believe that predestination actually is predestination (deciding someone's destiny in advance) and others believe it as written.

If someone believes that God predestines those whom he foresaw were going to believe, then the "predestination" is a meaningless tautology.  It only means something if the predestination CHANGES what would have happened otherwise.

The question leads inevitably to 'sovereignty'. We ask, "is God sovereign or not"? In terms of those that He made in His image and just exactly what this entails, this question is not as simple as it might seem and the answers to it that some folks offer.

[David1701]

1 hour ago, Alive said:

The question leads inevitably to 'sovereignty'. We ask, "is God sovereign or not"? In terms of those that He made in His image and just exactly what this entails, this question is not as simple as it might seem and the answers to it that some folks offer.

Indeed; so, do you have a view; and, if so, what is it?

[Alive]

4 hours ago, David1701 said:

Indeed; so, do you have a view; and, if so, what is it?

My view follows the lines of my comments on the subject---essentially, I do not fully understand and it isn't for lack of applying myself to the problem.

:-)

Even my own experience of Salvation, though teaches me much, doesn't fully inform me of how the things I mentioned integrate or synthesize.

I believe that every soul has a built in knowledge that there is a God. I believe that before regeneration, every soul is far removed from Him. I can't even say just how that works.

I know as a teenager, I was a seeker and read voraciously. I was a seeker. Heck, I used to read the encyclopedia for fun. I read stuff on eastern religions. Something was missing. One day, I found myself nearly without volition looking into the sky and crying out, "God, whoever you are, I want to be aligned with the 'truth'.

I few minutes later, a friend from HS (I was just turned 19) came walking by where I was waiting for a ride and he invited me to a guitar picking party the next night. I went and it turned out to be a bible study and praise meeting of Jesus Freaks. That fella read from scripture--"I am the Way, the Truth and the Life". The Lord spoke to me clear as a bell and said, "I am the Truth". In my heart--somehow--I said, "yes".

Those events taught me over the years, that the Lord stepped into the picture of my life. I did not ask for Jesus Christ. He was far from my mind when I asked for 'Truth'.

And yet, he had already seen to it that my HS friend John, would be walking by in a few minutes to invite me to that bible study and He had determined that John would read that scripture and that when I heard it, He Himself would reveal Himself to me.

I often as the question of folks--"did Lazarus have a choice when Jesus said-Lazarus, come forth". I do not believe he had a choice. He was dead and then he was alive. Did I have a choice, but to say "yes"?

Some folks answer that question yes and some folks answer it no.

Now--how does all that we do know fit together? I am a very intelligent individual and I simply repeat--I do not know. I cannot fully synthesize all that I do know into a cohesive structure. It is not a simple question. I believe there are some things we simply will not fully comprehend while in these earthen vessels.

[David1701]

46 minutes ago, Alive said:

My view follows the lines of my comments on the subject---essentially, I do not fully understand and it isn't for lack of applying myself to the problem.

:-)

Even my own experience of Salvation, though teaches me much, doesn't fully inform me of how the things I mentioned integrate or synthesize.

I believe that every soul has a built in knowledge that there is a God. I believe that before regeneration, every soul is far removed from Him. I can't even say just how that works.

I know as a teenager, I was a seeker and read voraciously. I was a seeker. Heck, I used to read the encyclopedia for fun. I read stuff on eastern religions. Something was missing. One day, I found myself nearly without volition looking into the sky and crying out, "God, whoever you are, I want to be aligned with the 'truth'.

I few minutes later, a friend from HS (I was just turned 19) came walking by where I was waiting for a ride and he invited me to a guitar picking party the next night. I went and it turned out to be a bible study and praise meeting of Jesus Freaks. That fella read from scripture--"I am the Way, the Truth and the Life". The Lord spoke to me clear as a bell and said, "I am the Truth". In my heart--somehow--I said, "yes".

Those events taught me over the years, that the Lord stepped into the picture of my life. I did not ask for Jesus Christ. He was far from my mind when I asked for 'Truth'.

And yet, he had already seen to it that my HS friend John, would be walking by in a few minutes to invite me to that bible study and He had determined that John would read that scripture and that when I heard it, He Himself would reveal Himself to me.

I often as the question of folks--"did Lazarus have a choice when Jesus said-Lazarus, come forth". I do not believe he had a choice. He was dead and then he was alive. Did I have a choice, but to say "yes"?

Some folks answer that question yes and some folks answer it no.

Now--how does all that we do know fit together? I am a very intelligent individual and I simply repeat--I do not know. I cannot fully synthesize all that I do know into a cohesive structure. It is not a simple question. I believe there are some things we simply will not fully comprehend while in these earthen vessels.

I like your answer; it has all the hallmarks of life about it.

I believe that I can fit it into a cohesive structure; but it would be a long post and I don't want to detract from the good effect of yours, by getting into a technical debate.

[Alive]

Just now, David1701 said:

I like your answer; it has all the hallmarks of life about it.

I believe that I can fit it into a cohesive structure; but it would be a long post and I don't want to detract from the good effect of yours, by getting into a technical debate.

I believe that is wise. I have found over the years, that a technical view of 'Life' is not always the best for any of us. We are far better off, involved with simple faith and the companionship that is available in our Lord. He very much wants us to be as children in that way. Companions and co-workers.

Don't get me going!

LOL