Backslidden or Never Saved

[GandalfTheWise]

2 hours ago, ReneeIW said:

What if someone has been a Christian for decades and has produced much fruit, but then fell back into old habits for a period of time? 

I don't have a good answer.  I treat such things on an individual basis.  Sometimes Christians are very good at mitigating sins (such as addictions or compulsive behaviors) but not truly being freed from them.   During a low time in life, those things can seemingly re-emerge out of nowhere.  Christians can sometimes fail to take care of themselves and burn out badly.  Sometimes onset of diseases (such as dementia) can cause changes in behavior.   Sometimes Christians spend a long time living as a "good" Christian in their own strength (e.g. sort of like keeping new years resolutions via will power) and need to crash and burn before God can start a deeper spiritual work which results in real change.   As we grow older physically, mentally, and spiritually, things do change.  Sometimes we fail to adapt for a time to the changes to our detriment. 

I just try to keep lines of communication open, pray for them, and discern what God might have me do. 

[Behold]

18 hours ago, ReneeIW said:

How do you know if someone has backslid or was never truly saved in the first place? 

John says is 1 John 3:9 

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
 

So, if a professing Christian goes through a period of time where they revert to their old sinful ways, how do we know if they are backslidden or not truly saved?

 

You can only be a backslider, if you are born again.   As you are falling away from your "christian principles", you are letting go of your "christian discipleship" and living under the control of sinful desire.

In this situation, if it continues, you'll lose everything, as the penalty for living in the flesh is always the same for the backslider.  You will reap what you sow, and its going to hurt.

The punishment for the backslider is.......consequences.

The legalist, who does not understand that a born again person, is always born again, ... becomes confused about SAINTS who are not living right while saved, and think that these backsliders have willfully lost their salvation.

This type of poorly developed theological thinking is always found in the minds of the self righteous, who really are not trusting in Christ, but are trusting in themselves, to keep themselves saved.  This is why they can't understand that the blood atonement does not stop cleansing sin, the day a person is saved, and continues till they are in heaven.    The self righteous legalists, believes that sin, and sinning, is able to undo redemption, as they have no true understanding of the blood atonement, or Grace.

Edited August 12, 2019 by Behold

[Michael37]

3 hours ago, ReneeIW said:

What if someone has been a Christian for decades and has produced much fruit, but then fell back into old habits for a period of time? 

Our old friend Demas would be an example of this. Not that he fell into grave sin, became immoral in practice, or took up worldly pursuits other than just wanting to play it safe and avoid prison and martyrdom. The epistles to the Colossians and Philemon were written between 60 & 65AD. when Demas is actively supporting Paul and is considered a fellowlabourer. However, between 65 & 70AD Paul is in prison in Rome and Demas has no stomach for this outcome of service to his Saviour.

(Col 4:14)  Luke, the beloved physician, and Demas, greet you. (Phm 1:24)  Marcus, Aristarchus, Demas, Lucas, my fellowlabourers.

In Paul's mind there has been a falling back, since ideally genuine, committed Christians are not to love this present world.

(2Ti 4:10)  For Demas has forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.

Our ekklesia rather dotes on the above verse, often in good natured chiding, but also seriously when necessary as apostasy is an ever present threat among us.

[Behold]

4 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

Our old friend Demas would be an example of this. Not that he fell into grave sin, became immoral in practice, or took up worldly pursuits other than just wanting to play it safe and avoid prison and martyrdom. The epistles to the Colossians and Philemon were written between 60 & 65AD. when Demas is actively supporting Paul and is considered a fellowlabourer. However, between 65 & 70AD Paul is in prison in Rome and Demas has no stomach for it.

(Col 4:14)  Luke, the beloved physician, and Demas, greet you. (Phm 1:24)  Marcus, Aristarchus, Demas, Lucas, my fellowlabourers.

In Paul's mind there has been a falling back, since ideally genuine, committed Christians are not to love this present world.
(2Ti 4:10)  For Demas has forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.

Our ekklesia rather dotes on the above verse, often in good natured chiding, but also seriously when necessary as apostasy is an ever present threat among us.

Demas, if he was actually born again, is currently in Heaven waiting for his new body.   He and Paul had a wonderful reunion, and have had 2000 yrs to chat and hang out with Jesus The Christ and Father God.

"Apostasy" if committed by a born again person, is just one more forgiven sin.   Just like the rest.    And its not counted against them in eternity, according to Romans 4:8.

Apostasy the sin, is no worse   then if a born again person watches "R" rated cable TV shows, or rents "R" rated movies.  Or listens to Rap, Beyonce, Miley Cyrus, and Drake.

Apostasy the sin, is no different and no worse  then turning a blind eye and a cold heart to a person who is dirty, living on the street, and has a sign that says "hungry", and the born again person ignores them every single time, at every single opportunity..........for years and years.

So, this idea of cherry picking "worst sins" vs "not so bad".......is something that a lot of Legalists do on forums, as they try to convince born again believers that ......"you have to be careful and not cross that line, because if you do, the blood of Jesus can't forgive THAT ONE".  And of course, this type theology is poisonous and the person who spreads it should be thoroughly marked by believers as someone who is ither not Saved, or is saved and is completely engulfed by self righteous  heresy.

Its always good to refer back to Philippians 1:6, as a reminder that the Same God who saved us, is Faithful to Keep us saved".  and this is "not of ourselves". it is the "Gift of God". "to as many as would BELIEVE In Christ".

[Figure of eighty]

19 hours ago, ayin jade said:

We dont. 

God knows the heart. Whether saved or not, one should attempt to guide them to following the way of the Lord, living a life pleasing to Him, and not following sin. 

right only god knows. he's the final judge. people go through alot so I think instead of judging whether theyre saved or not--maybe help them get back to god by encouraging them and being kind.

[Michael37]

7 minutes ago, Behold said:

Demas, if he was actually born again, is currently in Heaven waiting for his new body.   He and Paul had a wonderful reunion, and have had 2000 yrs to chat and hang out with Jesus The Christ and Father God.

Attributing temporal qualities to the eternal realm is something I refrain from, but I agree that Paul doesn't imply that Demas had no prospect of salvation. Oftentimes though, apostasy does mean exactly that...those who fall away were never destined for eternal glory, having failed to abide in the Vine.

[Prycejosh1987]

On 8/12/2019 at 5:06 AM, ReneeIW said:

How do you know if someone has backslid or was never truly saved in the first place? 

John says is 1 John 3:9 

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
 

So, if a professing Christian goes through a period of time where they revert to their old sinful ways, how do we know if they are backslidden or not truly saved?

 

Backslid-den Christians can regain spirituality, God talks about blotting names out of the book. By indication, people that are truly saved do not leave the faith. Being saved is a process, it is not something that happens once for all time. It has to be maintained.

[Salvation67]

On 8/12/2019 at 8:23 AM, GandalfTheWise said:

  This question cuts directly to the heart of an argument Christians have been having for centuries.  Some theologians believe the Bible teaches that God is the one who has decided who will be saved.  Other theologians believe that the Bible teaches that God has given that choice to each individual to make for themselves.  When there is someone who appears to start out in the Christian faith and then stops following it, the theologians will explain it differently, and whole groups of Christians will pick sides as to which theologians are correct.  There will be no shortage of Christians who will confidently cast their vote for the biblical answer and then cannot in good conscience have anything to do with Christians who disagree.  

I've been a Christian for a long time and have spent decades in ministries and churches on both sides of this issue and have observed many many Christians with opposing beliefs on this.  As a practical matter, I cannot see any tangible difference in the lives and fruit of Christians on either side of this issue.  Their words and explanations of a few things will be different, but their lives and actions really are not any different.  There are no shortage of those who will point to shortcomings in Christians on the other side as proof of the devastating nature of being wrong, but I have not seen this.  There are some Christians who consider this an essential belief and view those who disagree as heretics.  A few will question whether someone who disagrees can even be a Christian.  However, based on the fruit I've seen in people's lives on both sides, I've come to the conclusion that this is a non-essential belief.  I just try to navigate between the two sides without burning bridges and try to prevent the fighting over this from doing damage and causing division.

I think the important thing is that the work of God in one's life will produce changes and transformation which is the evidence we can see.  The bottom line is that lack of evidence of change and transformation means that one is in a potentially spiritually dangerous position and those believers around such a person should view it as such.   The more deep rooted and obvious the change and transformation we see, the more confidence we have in God's work in one's life.  The less  we see, the less confidence we have.   I think this is in a large part of what the book of I John is about.  When we are at the first stages of change and transformation, we'll stumble and fall and worry that changes are not happening fast enough.  We will lack assurance and peace because of those things.  However, as we continue in Christ and our lives are changed and transformed more and more, we gain assurance and peace.  My opinion is that the book of I John is painting a picture of what the Christian life should and will eventually look like as we grow.  We will see more and more holiness.  Sin will become less and less a part of our life.  Our assurance, peace, and boldness before God will grow.  I think that I John is not so much a series of commands to try to live up to through our own efforts but more a series of promises about what our lives will look like in Christ as we spiritually grow and mature.

 

Thanks, I really needed to read your post on this. I am new in the faith and struggle with the issue of "why am I not changing " and "I am not changing fast enough" It makes me worry to the point of heart ache and tears but postss like the one above gives me great courage and hope. Thanks again, you have helped me more than you know 

[Figure of eighty]

On 7/12/2020 at 6:16 AM, Prycejosh1987 said:

Backslid-den Christians can regain spirituality, God talks about blotting names out of the book. By indication, people that are truly saved do not leave the faith. Being saved is a process, it is not something that happens once for all time. It has to be maintained.

This i agree with so much. Its not a one time thing. Its a process thr bible says to work out your salvation with fear and trembling

[Fidei Defensor]

Back slidding is described by the apostle James:

”My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.” (James 5:19-20)