7 YEAR TRIBULATION?

[Diaste]

On 8/20/2019 at 7:17 PM, Uriah said:

Hey guys,

I don't how Israel was supposed to fulfill those six things listed by Gabriel. Maybe someone will show the scriptures that show this. As I see it:

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city-  Plainly states a definite and  finite time period is allotted for what follows 

(1) to finish the transgression, and- ISRAEL CAN DO THIS? Heb 9:15- And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. More can be said, but WOW! How could ANYONE but Jesus do this?
(2) to make an end of sins, and-And where does it say ISRAEL does this?  Heb 10:4-11- "sins...remember no more" That's the N.T.-JESUS!
(3) to make reconciliation for iniquity, and-Animal sacrifices won't work, Heb 2: "our merciful high priest made reconciliation for the sins of the people" and it was ONCE for ALL
(4) to bring in everlasting righteousness, and-What kind of righteousness can be provided by Israel? It was done away with!! Rom 3:21-26- Even the righteousness of GOD..through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus -NOT ISRAEL
(5) to seal up the vision and prophecy, and - John 6:27- ..the Son of Man...which God the father hath sealed"
(6) to anoint the most Holy. -Acts 4:27, 10 :38- God anointed Jesus..calls Him the "Holy One" How could THIS be Israel?

 

These things are ALL fulfilled in our savior-Jesus! He did what Israel could NEVER do! They MUST be accomplished on the CROSS and it MUST happen within a 70 week time period. The Messiah came AFTER the 69th week!  He did these things in the middle of the 70th week.

 

 

On 8/20/2019 at 8:04 PM, Montana Marv said:

Jer 31:33 -  This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. i will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts.  I will be their God and they will be my people.  34b - For I will forgive their wickedness and remember their sins no more.

Zech  8: 6 - This is what the Lord Almighty says, It may seem marvelous to the remnant of this people at that time, but will it seem marvelous to me...  9:16 - The Lord their God will save them on that day.

Zeph 3:13 - The remnant of Israel will do no wrong, they will speak no lies, nor will deceit be found in their mouths.  20b - I will restore your fortunes before your very eyes.

70 Sevens are decreed for your people and your holy city TO.  It takes effort for someone to do these things.  Christ forgave everything on that day.

In Christ

Montana Marv

There is a great deal of agreement between the quoted verses here. If Israel had done those things in the Spirit which pleased God then the Lord would have made them the light of the world which they were supposed to be. But they failed, as we all do, in the close relationship our Father wants with us. If the house of Israel sought after the Father like David they would have the spiritual guidance and power required to be that nation our Father envisioned.

Our Father certainly could have empowered the nation of Israel to accomplish the tasks set before them but they were never going to do so by temporal means. "By my Spirit, says the Lord God." And only in that do we have victory.

[Montana Marv]

11 hours ago, Uriah said:

Hi Marv

Dan 9:24 -Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Once again, everything in the above verse had to be fulfilled in those 70 weeks, period. they can only be so by Jesus on the cross!

 Dan 9:25 -Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

This verse simply tells us the city will be rebuilt during that time. 

 Dan 9:26 -And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Jesus is "cut off" AFTER the 69 weeks, yet ALL of the things in v.24 MUST be done within 70 weeks. Anything else makes it a failed prophecy.

 Dan 9:27 -And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

In (that) one week He confirms the covenant.

So the 70 weeks is allotted for the city to be rebuilt and remained in by the people ostensibly for the circumstances to be in place for the role of the Messiah.

The 70th Week is yet future.  The "He" of verse 27 is neither the Anointed One of verse 25 and 26a. Neither of the people of the Ruler to Come who will destroy the city and sanctuary of 26b (Titus in 70 AD).

Back to the prophecy:  70 Sevens are decreed for the Anointed One (Christ) To;....do the six tasks.    Or is the prophecy, 70 Sevens are decreed for Daniels people and Daniels holy city To...... do the six tasks.

It can't be both. So what does Scripture say?  Daniels people and Daniels holy city have 70 Sevens to accomplish the six tasks.  If they have not been done so at this time, the 70th Week is yet future.  No one has failed, it is not fulfilled yet.  Since it is prophetic, it must be 100 percent fulfilled as written.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Uriah]

41 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

The 70th Week is yet future.  The "He" of verse 27 is neither the Anointed One of verse 25 and 26a. Neither of the people of the Ruler to Come who will destroy the city and sanctuary of 26b (Titus in 70 AD).

Back to the prophecy:  70 Sevens are decreed for the Anointed One (Christ) To;....do the six tasks.    Or is the prophecy, 70 Sevens are decreed for Daniels people and Daniels holy city To...... do the six tasks.

It can't be both. So what does Scripture say?  Daniels people and Daniels holy city have 70 Sevens to accomplish the six tasks.  If they have not been done so at this time, the 70th Week is yet future.  No one has failed, it is not fulfilled yet.  Since it is prophetic, it must be 100 percent fulfilled as written.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Hi Marv,

Dan 9:24- ...and to make reconciliation for iniquity

Heb 2:17- Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

But you are saying "oh NO He didn't"???

Dan 24- ..."to finish transgerssion"

Isaiah  53:5- He was wounded for our TRANSGRESSIONS,  "It is FINISHED."

You deny this too!???

Dan 924- ...To make an end of sins...

"to save his people from their sins"... "put away sin by the sacrifice of himself"

This, you reject!???

Dan  9:24- ...to bring in everlasting righteousness...

Isaiah 53- ..."My righteous servant shall make many RIGHTEOUS." not the kind that comes from bulls and goats, but,  Romans 3- "Even the RIGHTEOUSNESS of God...through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood to declare his RIGHTEOUSNESS for the remission of sins", 1 Cor 5- "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the RIGHTEOUSNESS of God in him"

You'll have none of this either???

Dan 9:24- to seal up (complete) vision and prophecy (literally, prophet) John 6-  ..."For on him God the Father has set his seal.”

Luke 18:21-Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. Luke 22:37- For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me,

And you will turn away from this too!???

Perhaps you are not convinced, Marv. I guess that 7 year scenario may be quite important to you. If somehow you are believing these things were to be done by Israel I suppose you could show how each point is done by them instead of the ONE Israeli acting as a stand-in FOR them, I'll take a look at it.

[Montana Marv]

9 hours ago, Uriah said:

Dan 9:24- to seal up (complete) vision and prophecy (literally, prophet) John 6-  ..."For on him God the Father has set his seal.”

The Book of Revelation is false then by what you say.  Mostly Prophetic

 

10 hours ago, Uriah said:

Dan 924- ...To make an end of sins...

"to save his people from their sins"... "put away sin by the sacrifice of himself"

Israel still sins and so do we at Christian Believers.  We need more info from you.  Sin and Death are not put away until the end Rev 21. The New Heaven and the New Earth is now free from sin and Death, Am I wrong.  You are adding to what is written for Israel.

10 hours ago, Uriah said:

Isaiah  53:5- He was wounded for our TRANSGRESSIONS,  "It is FINISHED."

You deny this too!???

Why do people still Transgress?  Still goes on and on, So what is New.  You say Transgressions are finished.  Believers still Transgress.  No need for the confession of our sins then.

10 hours ago, Uriah said:

1 Cor 5- "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the RIGHTEOUSNESS of God in him"

I like this; "that we might be made like" the Righteousness...  Kind of like saying; Tomorrow I might be a better Christian.  As for Israel, maybe thy will believe tomorrow.  Why do we still sin, transgress, have iniquity in our hearts.  All this is still out there whether one Believes or Not.  Satan is still out there like a roaring lion.  Show me where sins, transgressions and iniquity are gone, as you say.  Are you without sin?

You still do not get the point of the 70 Sevens.  It is for Daniels people and for Daniels holy city.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Montana Marv]

Most are blinded by what the 70 Sevens are all about.  It is more than some think.

We as Believers have been Saved (Justification) from the Penalty of Sin.  All Done through Christ. 

Now as Believers were are being transformed from the Power of Sin (Sanctification).  This is an ongoing process as we become more Christ like, through the H.S..  In our sinful bodies we will never achieve 100 percent Sanctification.  It is ongoing until we die. 

In the future we will be saved from the Presence of Sin (Glorification).  When we are with Christ the presence of Sin will be mostly gone until Death has been swallowed up in Victory.  We have become Glorified in Christ Jesus.

As Believers we are to make Israel Jealous because of our position In Christ Jesus.  In like manner in the future Israel will make us Jealous in a way.

What has taken us as Believers all our Christian Walk to try to achieve (Sanctification) and not fully attaining it;  Israel on that day will achieve (Sanctification) in one moment or one day.

The 70 Sevens are all about Daniels people Israel and the holy city Jerusalem to become fully Sanctified.  From sinning to no sin, From transgressing to not transgressing,  All in a day. 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Uriah]

10 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

The Book of Revelation is false then by what you say.  Mostly Prophetic

 

Israel still sins and so do we at Christian Believers.  We need more info from you.  Sin and Death are not put away until the end Rev 21. The New Heaven and the New Earth is now free from sin and Death, Am I wrong.  You are adding to what is written for Israel.

Why do people still Transgress?  Still goes on and on, So what is New.  You say Transgressions are finished.  Believers still Transgress.  No need for the confession of our sins then.

I like this; "that we might be made like" the Righteousness...  Kind of like saying; Tomorrow I might be a better Christian.  As for Israel, maybe thy will believe tomorrow.  Why do we still sin, transgress, have iniquity in our hearts.  All this is still out there whether one Believes or Not.  Satan is still out there like a roaring lion.  Show me where sins, transgressions and iniquity are gone, as you say.  Are you without sin?

You still do not get the point of the 70 Sevens.  It is for Daniels people and for Daniels holy city.

In Christ

Montana Marv

The Book of Revelation is false then by what you say.  Mostly Prophetic

The Book of Revelation is a separate prophecy about the cataclysmic events preceding the Second Coming of Jesus.

Quote

 

Israel still sins and so do we at Christian Believers.  We need more info from you.  Sin and Death are not put away until the end Rev 21. The New Heaven and the New Earth is now free from sin and Death, Am I wrong.  You are adding to what is written for Israel.

Why do people still Transgress?  Still goes on and on, So what is New.  You say Transgressions are finished.  Believers still Transgress.  No need for the confession of our sins then.

 

You mean like James said, "For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body. Or other parts of the N.T.,  "not that I have attained..., (Paul), But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:, etc...But I have Jewish folks, skeptics and atheists also disparage the scriptures as well. Surely you aren't to side with them? 

But back to the basics of salvation: "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness."

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I like this; "that we might be made like" the Righteousness...  Kind of like saying; Tomorrow I might be a better Christian.  As for Israel, maybe thy will believe tomorrow.  Why do we still sin, transgress, have iniquity in our hearts.  All this is still out there whether one Believes or Not.  Satan is still out there like a roaring lion.  Show me where sins, transgressions and iniquity are gone, as you say.  Are you without sin?

(see above) You are stumbling over a word-"might" (because you misquoted me, my post did NOT say "like") All you needed to do is look at another bible version: 2 Cor 5:21-God made the one who did not know sin to be sin for us, so that in him we would become the righteousness of God.

Nothing to do with "maybe" as it seems you are reading it (disparaging scripture)

 

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It is for Daniels people and for Daniels holy city. 

YES!1 Already fulfilled. Heb 9:28- so also Christ died once for all time as a sacrifice to take away the sins of many people. He will come again, not to deal with our sins, but to bring salvation to all who are eagerly waiting for him.

[Uriah]

11 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

disregard this portion...see below

Hi Marv

So we have differing views on the 7 yr. tribulation. I don't think either one of us is ready to change positions, but that is not my intention anyway. I always want to show the best reasoning through the scriptures for what I believe. Not sure if yo remember what I said about the scenario in Revelation but do you see 7 yrs there too?

[Uriah]

I also have a view that some may be interested in. (short version) In a 3.5 yr. tribulation, situations will burst onto the scene rather unexpectedly. Like an economic collapse that gets things started, followed shortly thereafter by the rise of the anti-Christ, by mere months. I see the start of it all coinciding with a major conflict with Israel and their surrounding enemies. It will get so bad that they will likely resort to using nukes. That would make the world community step in and declare "peace" with Jerusalem being occupied (trodden under the feet of the Gentiles) and the land divided into a new state-Palestine.

Around these times we will see the 2 witnesses. Their 42 month ministry and the 42 month reign of the A/C  do not start at the same time. I think their deaths and rising will be very close to Passover! Considering the close resemblance between Passover scenarios and the book of Revelation I can see how the trumpets and vials will begin at that time as well. The most likely time for the culmination of all these events with the battle of Armageddon and return of Jesus would then be around Tish 'b Av. Wrapping things up will be the arrival of New Jerusalem at the Feast of Tabernacles. 

 

[Uriah]

It has turned out that recent events and an online news analysis about such things have taken a striking similarity to the scenario described in my eBook which is similar to what I wrote above. Palestinian leader Abbas has declared the they will be joined by other nations and march into the West Bank AND East Jerusalem and dismantle what the Jewish state has made. He describes a horde of 1 million +. 

Commentators say Israel would not be able to stop them perhaps needing to resort to nuclear force. This, as stated above, will cause world leaders to will intervene. The 42 month period of trampling under foot by the Gentiles (peace keepers). 

There will be NO 7 yr. tribulation, Ezekiel war, Psalm 83 war, Isaiah 17 war, etc. We will go straight into it as Jesus said, "..like a snare it will come upon all who dwell on the face of the Earth." These events are parts of the tribulation. eBook/website will be back up online VERY soon.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Uriah
Spell check/punctuation

[Retrobyter]

On 8/23/2019 at 11:31 AM, Uriah said:

I also have a view that some may be interested in. (short version) In a 3.5 yr. tribulation, situations will burst onto the scene rather unexpectedly. Like an economic collapse that gets things started, followed shortly thereafter by the rise of the anti-Christ, by mere months. I see the start of it all coinciding with a major conflict with Israel and their surrounding enemies. It will get so bad that they will likely resort to using nukes. That would make the world community step in and declare "peace" with Jerusalem being occupied (trodden under the feet of the Gentiles) and the land divided into a new state-Palestine.

Around these times we will see the 2 witnesses. Their 42 month ministry and the 42 month reign of the A/C  do not start at the same time. I think their deaths and rising will be very close to Passover! Considering the close resemblance between Passover scenarios and the book of Revelation I can see how the trumpets and vials will begin at that time as well. The most likely time for the culmination of all these events with the battle of Armageddon and return of Jesus would then be around Tish 'b Av. Wrapping things up will be the arrival of New Jerusalem at the Feast of Tabernacles. 

 

On 8/28/2019 at 8:33 PM, Uriah said:

It has turned out that recent events and an online news analysis about such things have taken a striking similarity to the scenario described in my eBook which is similar to what I wrote above. Palestinian leader Abbas has declared the they will be joined by other nations and march into the West Bank AND East Jerusalem and dismantle what the Jewish state has made. He describes a horde of 1 million +. 

Commentators say Israel would not be able to stop them perhaps needing to resort to nuclear force. This, as stated above, will cause world leaders to will intervene. The 42 month period of trampling under foot by the Gentiles (peace keepers). 

There will be NO 7 yr. tribulation, Ezekiel war, Psalm 83 war, Isaiah 17 war, etc. We will go straight into it as Jesus said, "..like a snare it will come upon all who dwell on the face of the Earth." These events are parts of the tribulation. eBook/website will be back up online VERY soon.

Shalom, Uriah.

Sorry I've been gone so long from the discussion; I was debating with HAZARD in "Our Body is our Soul and our Soul is our Body."

This isn't right, either, though. It's not about a 3.5-year tribulation anymore than it's about a 7-year tribulation period. The "tribulation" doesn't have to do with the 70 weeks of years in Daniel 9 at all!

The "tribulation" or "pressure" started in the First Century A.D. with the children of Israel, and in particular, the children of Yhudah, the Jews, REJECTING the LORD'S Anointed! Because they rejected Him, He left them "desolate" until He returns, and He said He wouldn't return until they could welcome Him back as the LORD'S Anointed. It grew to large proportions under the invasions by Rome some 40 years later as the Romans invaded and destroyed the Temple in 70 A.D., tearing it apart for the gold that melted in the fire and flowed between the stones of the building.

This "tribulation" shall continue until the Lord Yeshua` returns and offers His Kingdom to Israel once again. The "tribulation" shall be about TWO THOUSAND YEARS LONG! While it is true that Yeshua` promised (in His prophecy of Matthew 24-25, Mark 13, and Luke 21) that those "days would be shortened," there's another way those "days will be shortened" other than just shortening the DURATION of the "tribulation period."

Imagine with me a 2-dimensional chart of the timeline covering this "tribulation period." Now, picture it as a bar graph, such that each year has one bar and the height of the bar represents the number of "tribulation days" within that year.

If the bars were reduced in height, the number of days within that tribulation period would still be reduced, even if the LENGTH of the timeline of that tribulation period was not shortened.