First man to go directly to Heaven

[unworthyservant]

3 hours ago, missmuffet said:

No he went to heaven

Kings 2:11

Then it happened, as they continued on and talked, that suddenly a chariot of fire appeared with horses of fire, and separated the two of them; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

I was talking about Enoch, not Elijah, but I believe that they both probably were taken to Heaven.

[missmuffet]

8 hours ago, unworthyservant said:

I was talking about Enoch, not Elijah, but I believe that they both probably were taken to Heaven.

Yes, both of them were raptured to heaven without dying. God had a purpose for that. 

[angels4u]

On 8/15/2019 at 4:24 AM, Blood Bought 1953 said:

Enoch “ walked and talked with God...”...Considering that he was “ caught up” and never experienced death,  have you considered him and what part, if any , he played in this well- written post?

Well, where really was he?

John 3:13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.

[Blood Bought 1953]

4 minutes ago, angels4u said:

Well, where really was he?

John 3:13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.

 

Purgatory?  Lol......don’t get me started!

I don’t really know.....maybe the Paradise side of Hades...I have done very little study on this subject.....the Bible does not give us much to go on ...

[JohnD]

On 8/15/2019 at 2:24 AM, Blood Bought 1953 said:

Enoch “ walked and talked with God...”...Considering that he was “ caught up” and never experienced death,  have you considered him and what part, if any , he played in this well- written post?

There was another thread on the topic of Enoch and Elijah.

That they were "taken up into heaven" does not mean they were taken to the third heaven where God is.

Nor does it necessarily mean they were taken bodily. 

2 Corinthians 12:2–4 (AV)
2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

They could have been taken to the side of Promise (typically called Abraham's Bosom):

Luke 16:19–31 (AV)
19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

They have a special return engagement in Revelation 11. Which is why they did not die.

Revelation 11 (AV)
1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Some would argue Hebrews 9:27 militates against Enoch and Elijah being out of body spirits all these millennia, then coming back bodily, then dying, then being raised form the dead again.  But hasn't an exception to Hebrews 9:27 taken place in every raising from the dead in the Old and New Testaments? Died. Raised from the dead by Elijah and Elisha, certainly by Jesus... and then they all died again eventually. I point this out to argue the case that Enoch and Elijah could have been taken to Abraham's Bosom in spirit without having died in the typical way people die.

 

 

 

 

[JohnD]

One of the things I tried to point out in my Opening Post was that people who went to Abraham's Bosom

went there as disembodied spirits. Jesus in Spirit (body in the tomb of Joseph of Aramathea) went to Abraham's

Bosom (Ephesians 4:8-10) declared the victory to the "prisoners" on the condemned side of Gehenna and in the pit 

(abyss) between (where the fallen angels ended up)

1 Peter 3:18–22 (AV)
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

Ephesians 4:8–10 (AV)
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

The spirits of believing men and women were taken by the Spirit of Jesus (God the Word) to the third heaven in spirit.

Jesus rose bodily from the grave on the third day.

Everyone else remains in spirit only until the general resurrection when the bodies of the dead in Christ will rise first (1 Thessalonians 4) when:

Jude 14–15 (AV)
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Disembodied until reunited with their risen bodies.

Until the cross of Christ, no human being could go into the third heaven in any form.

So the spirits of the believing dead went to Abraham's Bosom until the cross and the Lord personally took them to heaven.

 

[JohnD]

6 minutes ago, Cletus said:

Mat 27:51  And behold, the veil of the temple was rent in two from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake; and the rocks were rent;
Mat 27:52  and the tombs were opened; and many bodies of the saints that had fallen asleep were raised;
Mat 27:53  and coming forth out of the tombs after his resurrection they entered into the holy city and appeared unto many.

we do not wait to get the inheritance at our death.  an inheritance does not work like that.  The same power that rose Jesus from the grave lives in us... death can not hold Him... no grave, no tomb.  Because of what Jesus has done... we will never taste of that death. 

Then who are these folks?

1 Thessalonians 4:13–18 (AV)
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.**
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

** Jude 14–15 (AV)
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

 

[JohnD]

The deliverance from death you refer to must be:

1 Corinthians 15:54–57 (AV)
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

We are delivered from the law:

Galatians 3:24–25 (AV)
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Unto Grace. And from eternal condemnation (death) which we were all ALREADY condemned to:

John 3:16–18 (AV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned ALREADY, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

2 Corinthians 5:1-10 (AV)
1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle* were dissolved, we have a building of God**, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.***
4 For we that are in this tabernacle* do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed***, but clothed upon**, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.**
5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body*, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body***, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body*, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
 

* our fallen body

** our spirit body

*** disembodied spirit

 

 

[R. Hartono]

44 minutes ago, JohnD said:

Then who are these folks?

1 Thessalonians 4:13–18 (AV)
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.**
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first

 

That has shown they have not been to heaven when they die.

[JohnD]

1 hour ago, R. Hartono said:

That has shown they have not been to heaven when they die.

It shows that their bodies have not been. But Jesus bringing them with him when he returns to Earth shows that

their spirits were with him in death. Just their spirits.

Absent from the body present with the Lord.

2 Corinthians 5:1-10 (AV)
1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle* were dissolved, we have a building of God**, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.***
4 For we that are in this tabernacle* do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed***, but clothed upon**, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.**
5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body*, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body***, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body*, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
 

* our fallen body

** our spirit body

*** disembodied spirit