Edited

[ReneeIW]

edited 

Edited August 24, 2019 by ReneeIW

[Tzephanyahu]

13 hours ago, ReneeIW said:

Is that interpretation correct?

Shalom ReneeIW,

Yes, that's kinda how I believe it is meant to be understood.

This was a type of covenant cutting ceremony that would have been very familiar with Abraham.  Typically, both parties of the covenant would pass through the divided animals when making the covenant, as if to say "may the same happen to me if I violate the terms of this covenant".

In this instance, only Yahweh passed through the the divided animals, effectively making it no risk promise for Abraham.  But Yahweh would not be punished if Abraham broke his end of the covenant, as you suggested.  Yahweh would only be at consequence if He did keep His end of the deal - which of course is absurd to think He wouldn't.

Another way to sum up this scene is like Yahweh saying to Abraham: "I promise you, as I live, that I will do this.  You need only to have faith in me"

Love & Shalom

[other one]

Abraham had already showed his faith, it was totally unconditional. 

Just a note about where Abraham may of picked up that faith........  Abraham was a bit over 50 when Noah died, and Shem lived about 35 years longer than Abraham......  he had access to people who had had first hand dealings with the Lord. The Bible doesnt discuss it but it is very hard to believe that they would have not crossed paths.

What do we know about Noah after his drunken nap that got Ham in trouble other than he lived 350 years after the flood.

 

[enoob57]

The covenant of God with Abraham was independent from man... it was the way, the truth, the life God would provide in His Son Jesus... The smoking furnace represented judgment from God for sin and the lighted torch was represented as the light that would come upon that judgment showing a way through the death that was here unto life that is found in God's Son alone...

[Justin Adams]

Two passed between the animal. Two Witnesses to it. Since Abram was taking a nap, two witness were required. Father and Son. Yeshua again later revealed the new Covenant and ratified its continuation when He gave Himself to be sacrificed. Hebrew literature (until about ad 200+) also agrees with the "two Yahwehs" concept. We can see many other cases in the Tanach of the "One like the Son of man" being seen. Often with Yahweh in the vicinity.

Yeshua also referred to Himself as the "cloud rider" when He told the Priest that he would see "Him coming on the Clouds in Glory". Cloud 'riders' in ancient beliefs were High Deity and all Israelis would have recognized the inference. It is obvious the Priest did because he rent his garments...

If we read the ancient texts of contemporary literature from the time frame (and world-view) of the writers we would see a whole lot more in our scriptures.

Edited August 17, 2019 by Justin Adams

[enoob57]

46 minutes ago, Abdicate said:

Actually, the book of Jasher (Joshua 10:13; 2 Samuel 1:18) says that Abram went to live with Noah when Nimrod demanded Terah to bring the new born as a sacrifice.

Actually by placing jasher with Scripture as interpretive to Scripture is the subtle element I am disagreeing with... the pseudepigrapha has already been proven historically inaccurate so why would you suggest otherwise?  

[enoob57]

1 minute ago, Abdicate said:

So NEVER ever use a dictionary, a commentary, or your own comments about the word of God then. You've been already proven inaccurate. See the fallacy of your comment?

 

Jeremiah 20:10-11
For I have heard the defaming of many, terror on every side. Denounce, and we will denounce him, say all my familiar friends, those who watch for my fall; perhaps he will be persuaded, and we shall prevail against him, and we shall take our revenge on him. But Yahweh is with me as an awesome mighty one: therefore my persecutors shall stumble, and they shall not prevail; they shall be utterly disappointed, because they have not dealt wisely, even with an everlasting dishonor which shall never be forgotten.

Actually I use the Scripture to verify or else I keep it at arms length from adding it to my understanding of Scripture... we are all admonished by God in this

1 Cor 8:2-3

2 And if any man think that he knoweth anything, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.

3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him.
KJV
In a great many place within Scripture I have found the need to wait upon God to continue... as waiting upon God is an obedience due to Him by us all...

[enoob57]

That is dishonest treatment of dialogue and as you have made this adversarial I will decline to your desires  

[George]

Listen @Abdicate and @enoob57 ... let's simply talk the subject at hand.  I've already deleted a bunch of posts that veered from the topic itself.

@Abdicate -- I think the point that Enoob is making is you have to be careful to equate the Book of Jasher to actual Scriptures and when you do so, this can be problematic.

@Enoob -- There is interesting information that can be found in the book of Jasher, but it's certainly not Scripture.   To add to the conversation a point from the book of Jasher to the conversation ... just makes the conversation more interesting! 

Have a blessed Shabbat ya'll -- enjoy life ... and don't lose your joy over a post! 

[enoob57]

Understood and accepted...