Question about law

[appy]

Galatians 3:2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?  Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?

Galatians 3:10 – 14  For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.” The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.” He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

Acts 15 : 28,29  It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements:  You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.

[Tzephanyahu]

1 hour ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

God gave the Law to show it can’t be kept......It was given to “ shut men’s mouths”.....it’s designed to get you to that classic “ Woe is Me” moment...

A strange position. This leads to a presupposition that Yahweh was unfair with previous generations of millions until approximately 30 AD. As if He designed a maze for Israel to run around with only dead ends and judgement. What a peculiar view of a loving God... (nothing personal though BB, it is a very common view) 

The Torah can be kept. Those who say it cannot aren't familiar enough with the Old Testament and those who did, or the many psalms singing about it - even Paul said he was blameless according to the Torah. Yes, it absolutely can be kept, it's fair and very good and Yahweh didn't design it to trick us. 

The problem is that you can keep the Torah but still fail, IF you miss the heart intention of it. 

For example, if I suspected my wife of adultery, back in ancient Israel, I could legally follow the prescribed method of testing detailed in Torah. I could then divorce her, again, legally - keeping the Torah. But, if I forgive her at the start I have also kept the Torah's heart intent - of love, forgiveness, mercy and peace.  These principles are more vital than following the words of the Torah (which should only be followed if someone wants to press for a judgement). because they are the sum of Torah. 

Again, when King Solomon declared a judgment for the two mothers and the contested baby, his final ruling wasn't intended to be followed through.  Now, if they DID follow through, they would be obeying the "torah" of the King, and it would be lawful to do so.  But because the true mother relented on pushing for a judgement, she was awarded with her child - whereas the wicked mother pushed (legally) for the judgement to be followed through - keeping the "torah" but missing the heart intent. 

In the same way, the Torah can be kept but it won't achieve your salvation. If you seek judgements and legal rulings over love, forgiveness, mercy and peace - then you have lost the point of Torah.   

Love & Shalom 

Edited September 3, 2019 by Tzephanyahu

[appy]

Acts 15 : 1-10 Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: "Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved." This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question. The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the believers very glad. When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.

Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses." The apostles and elders met to consider this question After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear?

[enoob57]

The Law embodied The Life of Jesus thus fulfilling it's requirements but remains perpetual in this it is absolute in judgment

Matt 5:17-19

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
KJV
The understanding is adequately placed in the Psalms 89-96 
The epitome is 

Ps 119:96-105

96 I have seen an end of all perfection: but thy commandment is exceeding broad.

97 O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day.

98 Thou through thy commandments hast made me wiser than mine enemies: for they are ever with me.

99 I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies are my meditation.

100 I understand more than the ancients, because I keep thy precepts.

101 I have refrained my feet from every evil way, that I might keep thy word.

102 I have not departed from thy judgments: for thou hast taught me.

103 How sweet are thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth!

104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.

105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
KJV
When you love God's Word more than your necessary food then you will be on the narrow path that will lead you out of this world unto His Throne....

[Blood Bought 1953]

6 hours ago, Tzephanyahu said:

A strange position. This leads to a presupposition that Yahweh was unfair with previous generations of millions until approximately 30 AD. As if He designed a maze for Israel to run around with only dead ends and judgement. What a peculiar view of a loving God... (nothing personal though BB, it is a very common view) 

The Torah can be kept. Those who say it cannot aren't familiar enough with the Old Testament and those who did, or the many psalms singing about it - even Paul said he was blameless according to the Torah. Yes, it absolutely can be kept, it's fair and very good and Yahweh didn't design it to trick us. 

The problem is that you can keep the Torah but still fail, IF you miss the heart intention of it. 

For example, if I suspected my wife of adultery, back in ancient Israel, I could legally follow the prescribed method of testing detailed in Torah. I could then divorce her, again, legally - keeping the Torah. But, if I forgive her at the start I have also kept the Torah's heart intent - of love, forgiveness, mercy and peace.  These principles are more vital than following the words of the Torah (which should only be followed if someone wants to press for a judgement). because they are the sum of Torah. 

Again, when King Solomon declared a judgment for the two mothers and the contested baby, his final ruling wasn't intended to be followed through.  Now, if they DID follow through, they would be obeying the "torah" of the King, and it would be lawful to do so.  But because the true mother relented on pushing for a judgement, she was awarded with her child - whereas the wicked mother pushed (legally) for the judgement to be followed through - keeping the "torah" but missing the heart intent. 

In the same way, the Torah can be kept but it won't achieve your salvation. If you seek judgements and legal rulings over love, forgiveness, mercy and peace - then you have lost the point of Torah.   

Love & Shalom 

 

Was just about ready to hit the Submit button when everything vanished.....#*(*$-*!!.....

when my considerable anger subsides.....  I will return.....is there anything worse than having to retype a long post?

Ill leave you with this to ponder....... “ If Anybody could keep the Law, Jesus died in vain”

Later......

[Tzephanyahu]

10 minutes ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

Was just about ready to hit the Submit button when everything vanished.....#*(*$-*!!.....

when my considerable anger subsides.....  I will return.....is there anything worse than having to retype a long post?

Ill leave you with this to ponder....... “ If Anybody could keep the Law, Jesus died in vain”

Hi Blood Bought,

Feel free (of course) to share your response for the benefit of others but please don't go to any effort for my sake alone. 

As I hope you can appreciate,  I wasn't born-again 5 minutes ago.  I've heard these arguments hundreds of times, over many years, and have studied them diligently.  It basically boils down to an ultimatum form of argument, of "Law vs Lord", and I just don't read it working that way from the Scriptures.  However, two well-read opponents debating this matter rarely leads anywhere good.  At best it just reaches an pointless conclusion of "we'll agree to disagree", so let's save our time! 

Please don't misunderstand me, I mean no ill-will to you, my friend.  And again, please write your response for the benefit of others.

Take Care

[lftc]

7 hours ago, Tzephanyahu said:

A strange position. This leads to a presupposition that Yahweh was unfair with previous generations of millions until approximately 30 AD. As if He designed a maze for Israel to run around with only dead ends and judgement. What a peculiar view of a loving God... (nothing personal though BB, it is a very common view) 

The Torah can be kept. Those who say it cannot aren't familiar enough with the Old Testament and those who did, or the many psalms singing about it - even Paul said he was blameless according to the Torah. Yes, it absolutely can be kept, it's fair and very good and Yahweh didn't design it to trick us.

In the same way, the Torah can be kept but it won't achieve your salvation. If you seek judgements and legal rulings over love, forgiveness, mercy and peace - then you have lost the point of Torah.   

Love & Shalom 

I see that you are intending to communicate in Love and Shalom.  Thanks for that.

It may be difficult to percieve with statements that assume ignorance on the reader's part based on their interpretations of scripture.  I think it is fair to say that many with views that oppose mine know as much about the Torah as I do.

I certainly see your point about God not having given the Jews an unsolvable goal that is any different than that he has left in place for today. 

Do you not see any commandments in the Torah that can not be followed today?

[lftc]

8 hours ago, appy said:

Galatians 3:2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?  Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?

Galatians 3:10 – 14  For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.” The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.” He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

Acts 15 : 28,29  It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements:  You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.

Great verses from Galations!  Thanks!

The verses from Acts are from a very interesting part of the book.  The church is in division over the introduction of non-Jews into the church.  I started to point out where that verse leads, but I am tired of the debate.  I am tired of life outside the City.  Ready to move on.  I just want to go home.

God bless all.

Edited September 3, 2019 by lftc

[Blood Bought 1953]

6 hours ago, Tzephanyahu said:

Hi Blood Bought,

Feel free (of course) to share your response for the benefit of others but please don't go to any effort for my sake alone. 

As I hope you can appreciate,  I wasn't born-again 5 minutes ago.  I've heard these arguments hundreds of times, over many years, and have studied them diligently.  It basically boils down to an ultimatum form of argument, of "Law vs Lord", and I just don't read it working that way from the Scriptures.  However, two well-read opponents debating this matter rarely leads anywhere good.  At best it just reaches an pointless conclusion of "we'll agree to disagree", so let's save our time! 

Please don't misunderstand me, I mean no ill-will to you, my friend.  And again, please write your response for the benefit of others.

Take Care

 

Yes.... I know EXACTLY  where you are coming from....when one puts  his heart into a long post and it vanishes, it’s like getting the wind knocked out of him......thank God, it does not happen near as often as it used to! I will probably return later to to offer verses that I think others might  want or need to see.Its hard to get your heart back Into it .On top of that , may God forgive me,since I retired, I grow lazier by the day....lol.

You seem like a very pleasant fellow.....nice talking to you! God bless...

btw.....where on “ earth” did you get that name? Lol.....

Edited September 3, 2019 by Blood Bought 1953

[1to3]

8 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

Was just about ready to hit the Submit button when everything vanished.....#*(*$-*!!.....

when my considerable anger subsides.....  I will return.....is there anything worse than having to retype a long post?

Ill leave you with this to ponder....... “ If Anybody could keep the Law, Jesus died in vain”

Later......

Christ Jesus did not come to abolish the Law, He came to break the curse of the Law to ALL who come to Him and repent. He is the One who Grants forgiveness for our sins and is our advocate before the Father. As new creations in Him, we are to have a daily relationship with hHm, seek His Word and become willing to follow His Word and OBEY IT. We are to become brides of Christ, What is the nature of a true bride? =to be faithful to her groom and to have faith and trust in Him alone. In christ We are to keep our lamps gull of oil, ready for our marriage with Him.

What happened to those who let their lamps dry up without  being prepared full of oil?

Do not be mislead by false teasching that dissmiis what is written in His Word. Look to read the Holy bible anf follow it and seek, knock , ask Him and know and find to be faithful to him and His Word. that is what truly loving Him is all about,

If we do not love our groom and are not willing to be faithful to Him, our lamps are running dry and lacking faith.