The fulness of the Gentiles

[dhchristian]

Just now, choir loft said:

You are very smug in your self-righteous attitude.  You are the only one who knows anything about rightness and love of God, aren't you?

Do you not know O man that God hates a hypocrite?   Look in the mirror when you accuse someone of being a lip service Christian.   You'll see the foremost member of that club when you do.

Remove the Log out of your own Eye as the Word of God states. 

[choir loft]

On 9/26/2019 at 7:29 PM, dhchristian said:

https://biblereasons.com/dispensationalism-and-the-early-church-fathers/

In this paper, I will show that dispensationalism was not the invention of a 19th-century Biblical scholar, but that it has roots in the earliest days of the Christian church. 

In this paper Papias and his chiliastic teachings will be examined. What was one of the ways that Irenaeus battled the Gnostics? One of his weapons in Against Heresies was premillennialism and the various ages that God used to bring about His plan.

Other church fathers such as Justin Martyr, Tertullian, and Methodius will have their writings examined to show that they too have a doctrine of ages, or dispensations. Furthermore, other documents from church history will show how the idea of dispensationalism developed and that it is not a modern invention. It is not the intent of this paper to prove that dispensationalism is true, but to prove that it has historical merit and is worthy to be included in theology debate and study.

The system is largely seen as a 19th century Scripture interpretation by John Darby, and subsequently popularized by C.I. Scofield. Scofield’s Scofield Reference Bible was the first book to claim One Million sales with its publisher Oxford University Press[6]. However, as previously mentioned, the idea that the doctrine has only come about in modern times is not wholly accurate[7].

Who Is Papias: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papias_of_Hierapolis

Very little is known of Papias apart from what can be inferred from his own writings. He is described as "an ancient man who was a hearer of John and a companion of Polycarp" by Polycarp's disciple Irenaeus

He Taught What are the Basic tenets of dispensationalism/ Premillennialism. As You can see, He was disciple of John Along with Polycarp So this is going back to the first century Apostolic church.

PAPIAS AND HIS CHILIASTIC TRADITION

Papias of Hierapolis lived from A.D. 60-130, and preceded Justin Martyr in his premillennial views. He wrote five books about the interpretation of Scripture, but large portions of the works are lost. However, the great early church historian, Eusebius, provides us with details about his teachings. The authority that Papias has should not be understated, as he was a disciple of John the Apostle and an associate with Polycarp[11].

In the writings of Papias we see the dispensational teaching of the literal millennial reign of Christ on Earth. One of the hallmarks of dispensationalism is the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem. This was also the view of this great church father, but with a twist. Papias saw the rebuilding of Jerusalem as an essential element for the faithful to receive physical and spiritual blessings[12]. Papias also interpreted Scripture to say that there would be peace on Earth once Christ returned.

Regarding these things Eusebius writes of Papias, “In these he says there would be a certain millennium after the resurrection, and that there would be a corporeal reign of Christ on this very Earth; which things he appears to have imagined, as if they were authorized by the apostolic narrations, not understanding correctly those matters which they propounded mystically in their representations[13].” Though much is lost of the five works of Papias there is a wealth of information that shows dispensational markings 

So Who Is right? Those who hate Darby and Scofield, and Pin the blame for dispensationalism on them, Or the Church Fathers which date back to the Apostles? 

Why Don't you look into the Truth If you dare instead of spouting off hatred for all things dispensational and not even fully comprehending the difference between dispensationalism and Replacement theology. Instead of Googling for your Knowledge, why don't you read the Works of the early church fathers. 

Your Like a Kid who got his hand caught in a cookie jar and denies that he was taking cookies. That is what your equating dispensationalism with replacement theology is like. Sad you cannot admit your errors.

Dispensationalism was the Only system that predicted the rebirth of the nation of Israel. Hence the popularity in modern times. Dispensationalists never were anti-Semitic.

I Do Not agree with Dr. David Reagan's eschatology per se, But this article is short and well done.

https://www.raptureforums.com/bible-study/is-dispensationalism-anti-semitic-in-nature/

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. (2 Timothy 2;15) 

 

Ezekiel 37 predicted it long before your favorite guru.

I suggest you spend less time on TV and the internet and more time studying the Bible.

You might learn something.

Then again, if the rubbish you write is any effective measure, you may not learn anything.   You are entirely convinced of your own machinations and in the end will be your own worst teacher.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

[choir loft]

On 9/26/2019 at 7:36 PM, dhchristian said:

Can You take this to another Post, I do not want this one closed Down like the other GW ones.

Sure you do.

Just keep spouting your own high intellectualism and we'll bow down to your superiority and kiss your feet.  There will be no need for discussion because you alone hold the key to all truth.

All one has to do is ask you and you'll tell them.

On the other hand, you could act like a decent human being and begin by admitting the definition of common words such as the institutional church.   Begin there, or continue to crown yourself the lord of all knowledge and assumptions.

Humility is certainly not one of your faults.  

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Edited September 29, 2019 by choir loft

[Alive]

Can you fellas explain in a short paragraph just where you differ?

 

Perhaps--consider this an exercise in brevity and clarity.

:-)

 

Edited September 29, 2019 by Alive

[Justin Adams]

I got the giggles. Was imagining someone in the choir loft raining rotten veggies down on someone in the pews...

[iamlamad]

13 minutes ago, choir loft said:

You are very smug in your self-righteous attitude.  You are the only one who knows anything about rightness and love of God, aren't you?

Do you not know O man that God hates a hypocrite?   Look in the mirror when you accuse someone of being a lip service Christian.   You'll see the foremost member of that club when you do.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Holler away. But the truth is, when God was teaching me, I was VERY SLOW.  However, what He taught me I know very well.  In areas where I was not taught, I can only reason as anyone else.

 

[choir loft]

20 minutes ago, Alive said:

Can you fellas explain in a short paragraph just where you differ?

 

Short and sweet, the difference is based upon an anti-semitic theology called REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY in which Jews are condemned to hell unless they become members of a church and in which Israel as a people and nation are considered to be non-existent as a product of divine providence in the world.  Ezekiel 37 is ignored or referred to as obsolete language because protestants secretly (or not so secretly) are very uncomfortable with Jews and admittedly hate anything that smells of Jewish LAW.

That's the paragraph you asked for.  It explains in a nutshell the basis of the arguments, but not the Biblical reasons for what's really going on.  To get a larger picture, please read on.......

References:

In the Bible, Luke wrote in 21:27b, "Jerusalem will be trodden down by the gentiles until the times of the gentiles are fulfilled."

In history, in June of 1967 the Israel Defense Forces liberated the city of Jerusalem.  For the first time since Luke wrote the above line the city came under Jewish administration.  Prior to that time it had been under the administration of various gentile kingdoms and empires.

The discussion of "fullness of the gentiles" goes to Romans chapter 11, which is a discussion by the apostle Paul attempting to explain spiritual reasons for Jewish rejection of Jesus as God.

The Pauline apologetic has been deliberately misquoted and misrepresented by anti-semitic theologians and their various disciples since the third century.

When the epistles of the New Covenant were written they were written by Jews TO Jewish believers who had accepted Jesus as God.   The majority of the epistles attempted to explain to Jews how Jesus fulfilled the LAW and what portions of the LAW were no longer applicable and why.   It has been estimated that 1/3 of all Jews of the first century heard the gospel and believed (the rest adamantly refuse to read Isaiah 53 to this day).  

Gentiles also heard and some of them believed also.  Unfortunately gentiles both then and now are not familiar with Jewish LAW and tradition and felt they could substitute their own pagan beliefs for the axioms and laws of God as stated in the Tanakh (Old Covenant).  Consequently gentile interpretations of Paul's writing ignored the LAW and substituted their own toxic form of religious philosophy.  

We call this form of Biblical editing 'doctrine' and it is more important to gentiles than scripture itself.  This is the major reason for argument and misunderstanding on these pages.  A minor reason is simple pig-headedness and ignorance.

To learn more I suggest you stay away from Facebook, YouTube, TV preachers and popular novels.   Study the Bible and refer to well known volumes of interpretation by men of academic worth.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft.....    

Edited September 29, 2019 by choir loft

[Alive]

The more natural talent and ability a person has---the more the Lord seems to temper that.

If one is committed to following Him. This is both common and commonly understood among believers who have come along a ways.

[Alive]

4 minutes ago, choir loft said:

References:

In the Bible, Luke wrote in 21:27b, "Jerusalem will be trodden down by the gentiles until the times of the gentiles are fulfilled."

In history, in June of 1967 the Israel Defense Forces liberated the city of Jerusalem.  For the first time since Luke wrote the above line the city came under Jewish administration.  Prior to that time it had been under the administration of various gentile kingdoms and empires.

The discussion of "fullness of the gentiles" goes to Romans chapter 11, which is a discussion by the apostle Paul which attempts to explain spiritual reasons for Jewish rejection of Jesus as God.

The Pauline apologetic has been deliberately misquoted and misrepresented by anti-semitic theologians and their various disciples since the third century.

When the epistles of the New Covenant were written they were written by Jews TO Jewish believers who had accepted Jesus as God.   The majority of the epistles attempted to explain to Jews how Jesus fulfilled the LAW and what portions of the LAW were no longer applicable and why.   It has been estimated that 1/3 of all Jews of the first century heard the gospel and believed (the rest adamantly refuse to read Isaiah 53).   Gentiles also heard and some of them believed also.  Unfortunately gentiles both then and now are not familiar with Jewish LAW and tradition and felt they could substitute their own pagan beliefs for the axioms and laws of God as stated in the Tanakh (Old Covenant).  Consequently gentile interpretations of Paul's writing ignored the LAW and substituted their own toxic form of religious philosophy.  

We call this form of Biblical editing 'doctrine' and it is more important to gentiles than scripture itself.  This is the major reason for argument and misunderstanding on these pages.  A minor reason is simple pig-headedness and ignorance.

To learn more I suggest you stay away from Facebook, YouTube, TV preachers and popular novels.   Study the Bible and refer to well known volumes of interpretation by men of academic worth.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft.....    

This still doesn't succinctly explain what you believe. It sounds like more refutation.

 

[choir loft]

14 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Holler away. But the truth is, when God was teaching me, I was VERY SLOW.  However, what He taught me I know very well.  In areas where I was not taught, I can only reason as anyone else.

 

Consider that in areas where God did not teach you, He may have expected you to learn from others who were more experienced and better educated.  

He may be expecting you to use your ability to reason instead of accepting bovine excrement without examining it for the filth it really is.  

That is the problem with most protestant evangelicals.   They swallow poison believing it to be food.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft....