John 3v16 unplugged!

[dhchristian]

10 hours ago, Yeshua153 said:

Yeshua did not die for the whole world, He died for His bride, the church, as Eph 5v25 says, "....just as Christ loved the church & gave Himself for HER."

People love to quote Rom 10v13, saying that whoever, or everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. Whoever, again is 'the all', His elect. The next verse, v14 "How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed?" You cannot be an unbeliever, & call for Him to save you, when your dead in your sins, as an unbeliever, for God does not hear sinners, only believers who have sinned!

That's the truth of His Word, & most won't like it, but it still needs to be said.

God does not hear sinners, only believers?????? How then did you call upon him, for all are sinners and all were unbelievers? 

[Willa]

12 hours ago, Yeshua153 said:

The most famous verse in the bible, & yet so misconstrued by many, So let's define the words, & see what it actually says.

That little 2 letter word is SO significant. If God loved all the world, that's what it would say, without the 'so'. So means in a particular manner, He loved the world. World being kosmos - orderly arrangement. 

People then misconstrue 'that everyone believing into Him'. Everyone is pas o - the all, not just all, the believing all, which are the few elect God has chosen. 

Yeshua did not die for the whole world, He died for His bride, the church, as Eph 5v25 says, "....just as Christ loved the church & gave Himself for HER."

People love to quote Rom 10v13, saying that whoever, or everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. Whoever, again is 'the all', His elect. The next verse, v14 "How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed?" You cannot be an unbeliever, & call for Him to save you, when your dead in your sins, as an unbeliever, for God does not hear sinners, only believers who have sinned!

That's the truth of His Word, & most won't like it, but it still needs to be said.

 

1 John 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sin, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Tim 4:10  the Savior of all men, especially of these who believe.

Titus 2:11  For the grace of God has appeared bringing salvation for all men.

If it had meant only the elect it would have said only the elect.    Instead it says--1 Tim 2:4 --Who desired all people to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.   All means all.  

3) the world, the universe

4) the circle of the earth, the earth

5) the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family

6) the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ   Thayer

(B) The earth, this lower world as the abode of man. (1) The then-known world and particularly the people who lived in it (Mar 16:15; Joh 16:21, Joh 16:28; Joh 21:25; 1Ti 3:16; 1Pe 5:9; 2Pe 3:6). To come or be sent into the world means to be born, as in Joh 1:9. To go forth into the world means to appear before men as in Joh 3:17, Joh 3:19; Joh 6:14; 1Ti 1:15; Heb 10:5; 1Jn 4:1, 1Jn 4:9; 2Jn 1:7. Hyperbolically (Mat 4:8, "all the kingdoms of the world"; see Rom 1:8). (2)Metonymically, the world meaning the inhabitants of the earth, men, mankind (Mat 5:14; Mat 13:38; Joh 1:29; Joh 3:16; Rom 3:6, Rom 3:19; 1Co 4:13; 2Co 5:19; Heb 11:7; 2Pe 2:5; 1Jn 2:2).  Word Study Dictionary, Zodhiates.

 

When your theology doesn't fit with all of Scripture, it is time to rethink your theology instead of adding words to Holy Scripture for the purpose of changing the meaning to fit your ideas.

[BeauJangles]

6 hours ago, BeauJangles said:

John 10:16 ¹⁶And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.  KJV

 

5 hours ago, Yeshua153 said:

The other sheep are still believers, but like I was before 15yrs ago, in other churches that were preaching false doctrine, so if you are one of God's elect, somehow God will show you, & will bring you out of the false docritne, & teach you true doctrine, by His Spirit.

No, bro. You don't have it quite right here. When Jesus is speaking of 'other sheep I have' He's making an utterance prophetically in the future tense. It's very clear and apparent they have yet to become among His fold . Get it? By the way, I see no false doctrine on my part. At all. That's a pretty blatant accusation on your behalf, without any substantial evident proof to the otherwise. I may err in a few things perhaps, but false? No, sorry. 

Edited September 1, 2019 by BeauJangles

[saved34]

You may not be a Calvinist, but that is pretty much apart of their doctrine. Scripture is clear that Christ tasted death for every man. 

1Jn 2:2  He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

1Ti 2:1  I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people—

1Ti 2:2  for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness.

1Ti 2:3  This is good, and pleases God our Savior,

1Ti 2:4  who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

If you are human, and you are a sinner, Christ died for you.

 

Heb 2:9  But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

1Ti 1:15  Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst.

This is why men will be justly condemned, because they did not believe, they refused God’s love, and attempt to make him a liar.

 

2Th 2:10  and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

It is true that our Lord’s sacrifice is specially for us and to us, but it was for everyone. Limited atonement is false doctrine.

 

1Ti 4:10  For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

 

[JustPassingThru]

12 hours ago, Yeshua153 said:

If he was an unbelieving sinner, it flies in the face of Jn9v31,

You concentrate on one word, so, in John 3:16, ..let's take a look at the word we  in John 9:31:

Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth His will, him He heareth.

The we, ...in the story 9:1-31, are the unbelieving Pharisees........., are you not saying the same thing they said???

6 hours ago, Yeshua153 said:

like I was before 15yrs ago, in other churches that were preaching false doctrine,

What other churches before 15 years ago and what church do you attend presently, ...the word you used, goats is a red flag for me, ...Jesus was taking about nations that refused to help the Jewish people, ...not unbelievers, ...the only group of people that have misused this verse to label me a goat are JW's!

[missmuffet]

6 hours ago, dhchristian said:

God does not hear sinners, only believers?????? How then did you call upon him, for all are sinners and all were unbelievers? 

God hears the prayers of those who believe in Him and those who want to come to repentance and ask Him into their life. 

[listener24]

14 hours ago, GandalfTheWise said:

As a practical matter, pretty much most Christians I know act as if they believe Christ died for all and that God's offer of salvation is earnestly extended to all.

I love this "as a practical matter" approach.

It is good to ask theological questions, but at the same times when things get too "metaphysical" and there aren't verses in the Bible with particular focus on those questions, it is often a sign that they are the wrong question to begin with.

The dangerous thing is that often, while focusing on the wrong question, we waste precious time neglecting the things that are crucial and repeated in the Bible! As an example, a surprising number of modern Christians don't know the meaning of the prayer "Maranatha".

They don't even know that they can and should pray for Jesus' Return, as the early Christians did. This is just one of many example of actual Biblical things that we neglect while overly focused on nuances.

[Blood Bought 1953]

Not that he deserves it, but let’s give Hitler a little reprieve today.......Every sin that Stalin ever committed was paid for on the Cross......Salvation was there waiting for him ......well, then, why is he being tormented as we speak ?  Uncle Joe didn’t “ cash in” with faith in Jesus Christ’s Gospel. God has forever taken care of the sin problem at the Cross and He has the right to save anybody He wants.His Word says He will save all that come to Him through Faith in His Son.Sorry, Joe....you missed the boat.....

[Riverwalker]

How could you misconstrue that simple scripture

 

For God so loved the world - That's everyone

The whosoever would believe - you do have to believe to access this grace

Should not perish but have ever lasting life. - Will be saved

 

Stop over complicating what God has made very simple. Salvation is Available to all. Who truly believe

 

1 Peter 3:18 
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,

Hebrews 10:10 
And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

1 John 2:2 
He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

John 3:16 
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Romans 6:23  
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Hebrews 9:28 ESV / 9 helpful votes    
So Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

Hebrews 9:26-28
For then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

Hebrews 9:27 
And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,

Romans 6:10   
For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God.

Romans 5:12   
Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—

1 John 1:9 
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Ephesians 2:8-9  
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

John 19:30  
When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, “It is finished,” and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

John 11:25   
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live,

2 Corinthians 5:21    
For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

John 3:16-17 
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

John 1:29 
The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Hebrews 9:26     
For then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Hebrews 9:12  
He entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.

Hebrews 2:14    
Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil,

1 Corinthians 15:3     
For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures,

Romans 8:3 ESV / 5 helpful votes    
For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,

John 14:6 ESV / 5 helpful votes    
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

John 14:1-3   
“Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me. In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.

John 5:21    
For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will.

Matthew 20:28
Even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned—every one—to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

1 John 4:10 
In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

1 John 3:5    
You know that he appeared to take away sins, and in him there is no sin.

2 Peter 3:9  
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

1 Peter 3:18-20 
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.

1 Peter 2:24  
He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.

1 Peter 2:21 
For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps.

1 Peter 1:3   
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Hebrews 10:31 
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Hebrews 10:26    
For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

Hebrews 10:12
But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God,

Galatians 3:13   
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”—

2 Corinthians 5:15 ESV /
And he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

2 Corinthians 5:8   
Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

Romans 8:11 
If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.

Revelation 1:18  
And the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.

1 John 3:16  
By this we know love, that he laid down his life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers.

Hebrews 4:15 
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.

1 Timothy 4:10 
For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.

 

Edited September 2, 2019 by Riverwalker

[bcbsr]

On 9/1/2019 at 3:09 AM, Yeshua153 said:

That little 2 letter word is SO significant. If God loved all the world, that's what it would say, without the 'so'. So means in a particular manner, He loved the world. World being kosmos - orderly arrangement. .

 

I also notice that. So = ουτω in Greek is not referring to the magnitude of God's love, but rather the manner of God's love. The lexicon defines the word as "in this manner". Good cross reference to this concept is Rom 5:8 "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." 

So when people ask as to HOW God loves us - Rom 5:8; John 3:16