The two Beasts of Revelation 13 Identified

[unworthyservant]

21 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

Part of that watching is to study prophetic texts.

As I mentioned to another poster, I don't mean that all Eschatology discussion is counterproductive, only that I prefer not to get bogged down with small details and thus lose sight of the bigger picture. It's like not seeing the forest for the trees as they say and I believe that it's really hard to see the forest if you're busy analyzing the leafs of an individual tree. So, I just don't choose to try and come to definitive stands on minor details that aren't apparently clear by a reading of the Scripture unless they actually affect my Christian life in a direct way.

[unworthyservant]

13 minutes ago, DanielConway said:

All the religious wars of the medieval era can be traced to one side or the other seeking support from the state.

I'll even give you the benefit of the doubt and say much of the problem is related to political and/or social interference but since never is a word I seldom use and always is reserved for God and His love (as those are the only things that will always be) I have to stop somewhere short of assigning all the blame to the state.

[unworthyservant]

1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

As a Christian and an American, our duty is to vote for the best candidate that best represents our moral convictions and world views

"I always want to vote for the best one but unfortunately they never run!" (Paraphrase; Will Rogers)

[unworthyservant]

50 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

Not to demean theology, for it does have role in our learning about God, But the truth is there are many brilliant theologists out there that do Not KNOW God personally.

Hallelujah that!

[douggg]

On 9/18/2019 at 9:10 AM, DanielConway said:

Hello all.  This is my first post here in the eschatology forum.  I can't put the full text of my ideas here, to lengthy, but I can point you to a paper over on scribd that you should take a look at for a partial preterist interpretation of Revelatation 13.  Please read and comment.

Hi Daniel,

 

In Revelation 13, the second beast has an image made of the first beast which everyone will be required to worship that image.

The image is the abomination of desolation of Daniel 12:11-12.     That vision is for the time of the end when travel and knowledge are increased.     Our generation.

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Those holding the partial preterist view never use that verse as a proof text of their view, because it is proof text of the partial preterist view being wrong.

 

The temple and city were destroyed in 70 AD,    That segment of prophecy has been fullfilled.    The segment of Matthew 24:15-31 is still future, and near.

 

Parable of the fig tree generation is tied to Jerusalem being the fig tree.    Our generation.    Look up, our redemption draws near.

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2019 by douggg

[DanielConway]

3 hours ago, douggg said:

Hi Daniel,

 

In Revelation 13, the second beast has an image made of the first beast which everyone will be required to worship that image.

The image is the abomination of desolation of Daniel 12:11-12.     That vision is for the time of the end when travel and knowledge are increased.     Our generation.

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Those holding the partial preterist view never use that verse as a proof text of their view, because it is proof text of the partial preterist view being wrong.

 

The temple and city were destroyed in 70 AD,    That segment of prophecy has been fullfilled.    The segment of Matthew 24:15-31 is still future, and near.

 

Parable of the fig tree generation is tied to Jerusalem being the fig tree.    Our generation.    Look up, our redemption draws near.

 

 

 

Consider the meaning of erecting an image in honor of the first beast.  To do so is to cultivate worship of the first beast, which is precisely what the later empire did towards the early empire in an effort to reassure the citizens of it's weakened State that they had a heratige worth preserving.  If you have a problem with later Rome not using a literal image in honor of pagan Rome please consider the extremely broad definition if idolatry that Paul uses when warning the church against this sin.

     You are right, the AD 70 desruction of the temple was an eschatologicaly significant event, but it has little bearing on Revelation, which was written about 20 years after that.  If I had to describe myself I would use the term 5th century preterist, in that I believe the consument event ofRevelation was the destruction of the great city, which was the sack of Rome in AD 410.

[Uriah]

7 hours ago, douggg said:

In Revelation 13, the second beast has an image made of the first beast which everyone will be required to worship that image.

The image is the abomination of desolation of Daniel 12:11-12.     That vision is for the time of the end when travel and knowledge are increased.     Our generation.

Hi dougg

Nice! I agree.

On a" wing" (border) of the temple (mount)...

the image(Daniel)...

that can speak (Revelation)...

in the Holy Place (Jesus)...

as God sits in the temple of God (Paul)...

all four prophecies fulfilled at once!

[douggg]

8 hours ago, DanielConway said:

Consider the meaning of erecting an image in honor of the first beast.  To do so is to cultivate worship of the first beast, which is precisely what the later empire did towards the early empire in an effort to reassure the citizens of it's weakened State that they had a heratige worth preserving.  If you have a problem with later Rome not using a literal image in honor of pagan Rome please consider the extremely broad definition if idolatry that Paul uses when warning the church against this sin.

     You are right, the AD 70 desruction of the temple was an eschatologicaly significant event, but it has little bearing on Revelation, which was written about 20 years after that.  If I had to describe myself I would use the term 5th century preterist, in that I believe the consument event ofRevelation was the destruction of the great city, which was the sack of Rome in AD 410.

There is still the problem of running to and fro, and knowledge increased.    Describes our generation not fifth century.

Plus the parable of fig tree generation fits Jerusalem back in the hands of the Jews in 1967.    Jesus, as he and the disciples were about to enter Jerusalem that last passover week, cursed a fig tree beside the road because it was not the season for Jerusalem to receive him.

 

[breathoflife]

Are the two beasts Satan? 

I understand this way like to hear your thoughts. In the Revelation we are shown an unclean spirit like a frog and out of the frog came three unclean spirits Satan, anti-christ, and the false prophet. This is Satan revealed as a trinity of evil. Satan the father, Satan the son anti-christ and Satan the unholy spirit or false prophet each person opposes that person in the Holy Trinity. What say you? Seeing this evil trinity changed my ability to understand Scripture. 

[DanielConway]

I would say that the first and second beasts of Revelation are Satanicly inspirered kingdoms.  Consider Daniel.  Successively arising beasts are always interpreted as kingdoms, and they should be so interpreted in Revelation.