Enoch

[ayin jade]

@jayne

I, and Im sure others too, would like to see the rest of this study. If you do not wish to post it publically, would you please pm it to me? I found it helpful.

[other one]

I am not sure which of the books of Enoch that this study is talking about, but much of it does not match up with the 1 Enoch that I have been reading for a couple of decades.   I would recommend people get a copy of the first book of Enoch and read it for themselves.

I would rather the thread be deleted than just closed

[Dennis1209]

Just my view and opinion:

I agree the book of Enoch is flawed and not inspired; and doesn't carry anywhere near the weight of inspired scripture as the rest of non-canon material. As you're well aware, both Jude and Peter quote / reference the book of Enoch, there's no question about that. At a minimum, Peter and Jude quoted and referenced it because the people of that day were familiar with and knew the book. Perhaps they referenced Enoch to make a point that they knew, understood or could relate to. The point being; those writing were around back then and evidently the Jew's of the time believed the book of Enoch. Other historians such as Flavis Josephus concur with the Jew's belief's. 

Every major culture throughout history and globally have myths about a global flood, giants, god's and demigods. They are all the very same demigod's being worshiped under different names through cultures and time [strange and why?]. Mount Hermon has a long held history and belief of many things demonic that had taken place there. There's a difference of opinion between scholars but; about one half of the biblical scholars believe Jesus's transfiguration took place at Mt. Hermon. If so why? Looking at a map and where Jesus and His disciples where traveling from and to. They went way out of their way to the middle of nowhere for a specific reason. I suspect it was one of those in Satan's face moments to show whom was Lord over all and Satan's plan is about to fail? 

We're all aware the earth's geology and configuration drastically changed during Noah's flood. Many scholar's claim the Great Pyramid was constructed prior to Noah's flood and withstood it, some claim otherwise. Point being, if the Great Pyramid survived the deluge, a large hill or small mountain might also. "And after that", there was a second incursion that occurred after the flood; how did that happen and did it happen again at Mt. Hermon? During the time Jesus walked the earth and well before that, it was believed there was a cave on Mt. Hermon that descended directly to Hades. If one maps the geographic homes of the 'tribes' of the different 'giants', guess where they were near? 

Anyhoot, the extra biblical texts give clarity to the times and what those believed, thought and understood about history and the time they we living. 

One thing of many I can't understand: All throughout the Hebrew / Jewish existence; the Lord performed many miracles that were witnessed by multitudes and recorded in writing for posterity. The Lord communicated to His people through Prophet's and gave many prophecies that came about proving He was the Lord, knowing the beginning from the end. Why time after time after time; did His people always revert back to empty Baal worship and other demonic idol worship and sacrifice? Did someone just dream up those false god's and they kept reverting back to them time and again? Was there something tangible about them?

I don't know about anyone else but, if I was standing next to the biggest human being in recent memory, Robert Wadlow, I wouldn't describe myself as looking the size of a grasshopper next to him. There are genetic abnormalities that occasionally produce exceptionally tall people in modern memory. The overwhelming majority of people today with that abnormality growing over seven foot tall, have disabilities, problems and shortened life spans. That's not indicated in the biblical account of the giants, and there were probably thousands of them "after" the flood. To me it indicates there was something in there DNA being passed down from generation to generation from the original source; more so prior to the flood and the reason to destroy all life with nostril's and the breath of life.

[Dennis1209]

5 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

Many seem more intent on disagreeing with the Divine Council, God's Cosmic Geography, Nephilim, Annakin, Gibborim, holy ones that fell and corrupted humanity, and the real reason for the flood. So the Joshua wars were just blood letting and had no meaningful directives from God.

They seem to want to blame Adam for all the terrible things and the depravity that is upon the earth. Some even deny evil spirits and elevate haSatan (which means deceiver) from the Nachash (scripture) to a super-hero. It is sad that the ancient Mesopotamian inhabitants, and the ancient near-east had more understanding than we do today. Sure they wove their own mythology around it all, but it is evident to the scholar that something was definitely going on and why the ancient Hebrew prophets even quoted them and replaced their particular Deity with Yahweh (haShem). Note that David re-purposes the Baal Cycle in some of his Psalms.

So much is missed.

Behind every ancient "myth", there's a kernel or more of truth. These "myths" have continued on for centuries and to this present day. 

[Dennis1209]

3 hours ago, ayin jade said:

@jayne

I, and Im sure others too, would like to see the rest of this study. If you do not wish to post it publically, would you please pm it to me? I found it helpful.

That's exactly right. Study to show thyself approved and I'm interested in others hermeneutics and opinions. This forum is a great platform to share our thoughts and understanding of scripture. Personally speaking, sometimes it's hard communicating with a keyboard and not sound condescending or argumentative, and we can take things personal that were not intended as such. We can discuss and agree to disagree with no personal attacks or belittling anyone. 

I'm a student of the Bible, that means I'm trying not to be dogmatic about secondary non Salvation issues and open to learning, and others interpretation of scripture. Sitting in a pew in church, would we act this way when we hear an interpretation of scripture from the pulpit we didn't agree with? 

[ayin jade]

26 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

Just my view and opinion:

I agree the book of Enoch is flawed and not inspired; and doesn't carry anywhere near the weight of inspired scripture as the rest of non-canon material. As you're well aware, both Jude and Peter quote / reference the book of Enoch, there's no question about that. At a minimum, Peter and Jude quoted and referenced it because the people of that day were familiar with and knew the book. Perhaps they referenced Enoch to make a point that they knew, understood or could relate to. The point being; those writing were around back then and evidently the Jew's of the time believed the book of Enoch. Other historians such as Flavis Josephus concur with the Jew's belief's. 

Every major culture throughout history and globally have myths about a global flood, giants, god's and demigods. They are all the very same demigod's being worshiped under different names through cultures and time [strange and why?]. Mount Hermon has a long held history and belief of many things demonic that had taken place there. There's a difference of opinion between scholars but; about one half of the biblical scholars believe Jesus's transfiguration took place at Mt. Hermon. If so why? Looking at a map and where Jesus and His disciples where traveling from and to. They went way out of their way to the middle of nowhere for a specific reason. I suspect it was one of those in Satan's face moments to show whom was Lord over all and Satan's plan is about to fail? 

We're all aware the earth's geology and configuration drastically changed during Noah's flood. Many scholar's claim the Great Pyramid was constructed prior to Noah's flood and withstood it, some claim otherwise. Point being, if the Great Pyramid survived the deluge, a large hill or small mountain might also. "And after that", there was a second incursion that occurred after the flood; how did that happen and did it happen again at Mt. Hermon? During the time Jesus walked the earth and well before that, it was believed there was a cave on Mt. Hermon that descended directly to Hades. If one maps the geographic homes of the 'tribes' of the different 'giants', guess where they were near? 

Anyhoot, the extra biblical texts give clarity to the times and what those believed, thought and understood about history and the time they we living. 

One thing of many I can't understand: All throughout the Hebrew / Jewish existence; the Lord performed many miracles that were witnessed by multitudes and recorded in writing for posterity. The Lord communicated to His people through Prophet's and gave many prophecies that came about proving He was the Lord, knowing the beginning from the end. Why time after time after time; did His people always revert back to empty Baal worship and other demonic idol worship and sacrifice? Did someone just dream up those false god's and they kept reverting back to them time and again? Was there something tangible about them?

I don't know about anyone else but, if I was standing next to the biggest human being in recent memory, Robert Wadlow, I wouldn't describe myself as looking the size of a grasshopper next to him. There are genetic abnormalities that occasionally produce exceptionally tall people in modern memory. The overwhelming majority of people today with that abnormality growing over seven foot tall, have disabilities, problems and shortened life spans. That's not indicated in the biblical account of the giants, and there were probably thousands of them "after" the flood. To me it indicates there was something in there DNA being passed down from generation to generation from the original source; more so prior to the flood and the reason to destroy all life with nostril's and the breath of life.

Compare maasai warrior to a bushman. Giant and tiny person. Both with normal features.

[Dennis1209]

1 minute ago, ayin jade said:

Compare maasai warrior to a bushman. Giant and tiny person. Both with normal features.

But still, in the logical ratio of comparatives if literal, one is not the size of a grasshopper comparatively speaking. It boils down to if it's literal, comparative or symbolic I guess?

[R. Hartono]

8 hours ago, other one said:

I am not sure which of the books of Enoch that this study is talking about, but much of it does not match up with the 1 Enoch that I have been reading for a couple of decades.  

I somehow feel the same how many translations r there actually ?

[other one]

7 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

I somehow feel the same how many translations r there actually ?

I haven't looked into that in a long time....    I first got involved with the three books of Enoch while involved with the Occult..  2 Enoch is just a very bad partial translation of 1Enoch.     3 Enoch is actually a dangerous book if you are researching the paranormal for it is basically Jewish Mysticism that originated in Babel and came through Egyptian mysticism to the Jewish system....   and it's not good for a Christian to be involved with.

1 Enock is very old and was common during the days of Jesus on earth for there are many different scrolls of it in the Dead Sea Scrolls and information from it is included in the bible.  I do agree that we can't put it into the Bible itself because of the rules set up to be included.    Also there are some translation problems, one of which is the size of the Giants...   I would hope that people would realize that whatever that measurement was it is not what we consider it today.....  

It seem obvious that people who read this thread and accept it all would totally discard anything that is contained within 1Enoch and in my opinion would be a huge mistake.

If one wants to get a serious professional's opinion and not some guy on a web board you should look into the writings of Dr. Michael Heiser and Dr. Thomas Horn and many others.  It will make things in our near future make a lot more sense.