The Seven Heads of Daniel 7 and Rev. 17

[iamlamad]

Just now, luigi said:

 

If you read the Olivet discourse concisely you will notice that prior to the AoD's arrival (Mark 13:14) there will be the beginning of sorrows (Mark 13:8). These preliminary sorrows include the saints being brought before the rulers and kings of the earth (Mark 13:9), where brother shall betray brother unto the death, and father their son, and children their parents (Mark 13:12). The beast along with his mouth will then make his appearance at which time he will be allotted a time, times, and dividing of time in which he will wear out the saints (Daniel 7:25). This is the beast's and his mouth's allotted 42 months (Revelation 13:5), in which he makes war with the saints (Revelation 13:7), and where all other people throughout the world who are not written in the lambs book of life will love the beast (Revelation 13:8). At the conclusion of the second half of the week (which is the conclusion of these 42 months) the judgment will sit and decide to take away the beast's dominion, to consume and destroy it unto the end (Daniel 7:26). This destruction and consumption of the beast's system represent the seven vials of God's wrath poured out upon the beast's worshippers in Revelation 16. Prior to the Lord's wrath being poured out upon the beast's worshipers in Revelation 11:18, the kingdom will be awarded to the saints (Daniel 7:27), who will commence to rule along with the Lord (Revelation 11:15).

Mark says something very close to what Matthew said: ⁷ And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.

Mark does not mention "the end" until verse 13. All these things before verse 13 are church age events: the beginning of sorrows. 

This destruction and consumption of the beast's system represent the seven vials of God's wrath poured out upon the beast's worshippers in Revelation 16 You still have TIMING mixed up. Jesus does not return to catch the Beast and False Prophet until chapter 19. The 70th week ends at the 7th vial in chapter 16. The final  destruction of the kingdoms of the world come at the 7th vial. At the 7th vial the Beast is alive and well. He is not captured until chapter 19 some unknown time after the week ends. you will note that of the five mentions of the last half of the week, as in 1260 days, and 42 months, that the 42 month coundown for the Beast STARTS LAST and ENDS LAST. It will end in chapter 19 when Jesus comes. 

Please note, Jesus gets the kingdoms of the world in chapter 11 at the 7th trumpet and begins to reign, but then He DELEGATES 42 months of authority to the Beast. It is HIS WILL the Beast have 42 months of authority. 

[iamlamad]

Just now, Justin Adams said:

Not so. All the apostles and then Paul later had either been with the Lord face to face or had heavenly visions. Choose your words very carefully. Too many today claim they hear directly from the Lord High God. Prophesy as a spiritual gift is EXHORTATION mainly. You just cannot have a secret word from God and expect it to be a church wide revelation that all must be bound to. 

"No scripture is of private interpretation.."

Be very careful because what you think you know may not be so.

My sheep no my voice. What did Jesus tell the disciples on HOW He would build His church? It was NOT on Peter: it was on the ROCK of revelation knowledge. And later, Paul received LOTS of Revelation knowledge  - His gospel by which we will be judged. God has sent some in His church, Apostles, prophets, teachers, etc. This is still the church age. We still have the five ministry gifts.

Next, can you imagine?

1 Corinthians 14:31
For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

The truth is, ANYONE who has received the mighty baptism in the Holy Spirit (This does NOT mean being born again) can prophecy. I did not say it, Paul said it. In other words, ANYONE who is a believer and filled with the Holy Spirit can hear the word of God. 

 

Now, with that said, MANY imagine they hear God. Who knows what they really hear? WE have a more sure word that we can use to judge prophecy. 

[Justin Adams]

12 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

judge prophecy. 

Have humble expectations that the prophecy will not be taken as a word of Scripture but as a Spirit-prompted human word to be weighed by Scripture, and by mature spiritual wisdom. For a prophecy to be accepted as valid it should find an echo in the hearts of spiritually mature people. It should be confirmed by biblically saturated insight. And it should find a resonance in the hearts and minds of those who have the mind of Christ and are ruled by his peace. (1 Thessalonians 5:19-21; Colossians 1:9; 3:15; Ephesians 5:15-17; Romans 12:1-2; Philippians 1:9-10).

The Bible tells us that God uses the gift of prophecy to speak edification, exhortation, and comfort to other people.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Justin Adams

[Justin Adams]

17 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

Learn and be comforted. NOT so you can TELL others what to believe or not believe about the Eschaton. And NOT to support your own private interpretations.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Justin Adams

[luigi]

5 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Mark says something very close to what Matthew said: ⁷ And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.

Mark does not mention "the end" until verse 13. All these things before verse 13 are church age events: the beginning of sorrows. 

This destruction and consumption of the beast's system represent the seven vials of God's wrath poured out upon the beast's worshippers in Revelation 16 You still have TIMING mixed up. Jesus does not return to catch the Beast and False Prophet until chapter 19. The 70th week ends at the 7th vial in chapter 16. The final  destruction of the kingdoms of the world come at the 7th vial. At the 7th vial the Beast is alive and well. He is not captured until chapter 19 some unknown time after the week ends. you will note that of the five mentions of the last half of the week, as in 1260 days, and 42 months, that the 42 month coundown for the Beast STARTS LAST and ENDS LAST. It will end in chapter 19 when Jesus comes. 

Please note, Jesus gets the kingdoms of the world in chapter 11 at the 7th trumpet and begins to reign, but then He DELEGATES 42 months of authority to the Beast. It is HIS WILL the Beast have 42 months of authority. 

Iamlamad, I have put numerous scriptures of the same series of events together that portray a relatively clear picture on how things are going to go down and what they represent. In contrast you bring up things like the beginning of sorrows in the Olivet discourse representing "church age". The Word provides no support for your claim of church age representing the beginning of sorrows. Why do you answer by obfuscating implying my supposedly describing the capturing of the beast? I never mentioned the beast being captured. Can you not address the correlations in scriptures I posted?  Can you not reply with the Word and show me anywhere (with the Word), where in my previous post I put together the Word incorrectly?

[iamlamad]

Just now, luigi said:

Iamlamad, I have put numerous scriptures of the same series of events together that portray a relatively clear picture on how things are going to go down and what they represent. In contrast you bring up things like the beginning of sorrows in the Olivet discourse representing "church age". The Word provides no support for your claim of church age representing the beginning of sorrows. Why do you answer by obfuscating implying my supposedly describing the capturing of the beast? I never mentioned the beast being captured. Can you not address the correlations in scriptures I posted?  Can you not reply with the Word and show me anywhere (with the Word), where in my previous post I put together the Word incorrectly?

The Word provides no support for your claim of church age representing the beginning of sorrows.  You are simply mistaken, NOT NOTICING or paying any attention to Jesus' words, "the end is not yet." Your preconceived glasses are preventing you from reading what is really there. "the end is not yet" IS support that Jesus is talking of church age. 

It is up to every individual reader to understand Jesus' meaning when He said, "the end is not yet." In simple English He is saying, "I am not yet talking about end times." This is not difficult. I will assist you if I can. 

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. [I'm not talking about end times yet. I'll get to the end times in verse 13.]
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. 
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Notice the pronouns that start every verse, tying that verse to the previous. I have highlighed them.  They all tie back to "THE END IS NOT YET. Luigi, I did not write this: Matthew wrote it. 

Notice how these different translators have written their idea of "the end is not yet."

AMP: You will continually hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end [of the age].

CEB  You will hear about wars and reports of wars. Don’t be alarmed. These things must happen, but

CJB  You will hear the noise of wars nearby and the news of wars far off; see to it that you don’t become frightened. Such things must happen, but the end is yet to come.

CEV  You will soon hear about wars and threats of wars, but don’t be afraid. These things will have to happen first, but that isn’t the end.

ERV  You will hear about wars that are being fought. And you will hear stories about other wars beginning. But don’t be afraid. These things must happen before the end comes.

EHV  You will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, because all these things must happen; but that is not yet the end.

CJB  You will hear the noise of wars nearby and the news of wars far off; see to it that you don’t become frightened. Such things must happen, but the end is yet to come.

DARBY  But ye will hear of wars and rumours of wars. See that ye be not disturbed; for all [these things] must take place, but it is not yet the end.

EXB  You will hear about wars and ·stories of wars that are coming [rumors/reports of wars], but don’t be ·afraid [alarmed]. These things must happen before the end comes [or but that is not yet the end].

GW  “You will hear of wars and rumors of wars. Don’t be alarmed! These things must happen, but they don’t mean that the end has come.

ICB  You will hear about wars and stories of wars that are coming. But don’t be afraid. These things must happen before the end comes.

ISV
You’ll begin to hear of wars and rumors of wars. See to it that you don’t panic. c

So what does all this mean? It means in Matthew 24 (and in Mark) that up to verse 13 Jesus is speaking of the church age, NOT THE END. He TELLS US when He begins to speak of the end. It is in verse 13 and 14. 

Such things must happen, but the end is yet to come.
 These things must take place, but the end won’t have come yet, 
that is not yet the end. 
 These things must happen before the end comes.

These are ALL saying that Jesus is speaking of church age events that will LEAD UP to the end. When Jesus gets to the abomination, we all KNOW He is then speaking of "the end." 

If you still think verses 7 to 11 are speaking of the ends times, then I cannot help you.

[luigi]

2 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

The Word provides no support for your claim of church age representing the beginning of sorrows.  You are simply mistaken, NOT NOTICING or paying any attention to Jesus' words, "the end is not yet." Your preconceived glasses are preventing you from reading what is really there. "the end is not yet" IS support that Jesus is talking of church age. 

It is up to every individual reader to understand Jesus' meaning when He said, "the end is not yet." In simple English He is saying, "I am not yet talking about end times." This is not difficult. I will assist you if I can. 

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. [I'm not talking about end times yet. I'll get to the end times in verse 13.]
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. 
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Notice the pronouns that start every verse, tying that verse to the previous. I have highlighed them.  They all tie back to "THE END IS NOT YET. Luigi, I did not write this: Matthew wrote it. 

Notice how these different translators have written their idea of "the end is not yet."

AMP: You will continually hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end [of the age].

CEB  You will hear about wars and reports of wars. Don’t be alarmed. These things must happen, but

CJB  You will hear the noise of wars nearby and the news of wars far off; see to it that you don’t become frightened. Such things must happen, but the end is yet to come.

CEV  You will soon hear about wars and threats of wars, but don’t be afraid. These things will have to happen first, but that isn’t the end.

ERV  You will hear about wars that are being fought. And you will hear stories about other wars beginning. But don’t be afraid. These things must happen before the end comes.

EHV  You will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, because all these things must happen; but that is not yet the end.

CJB  You will hear the noise of wars nearby and the news of wars far off; see to it that you don’t become frightened. Such things must happen, but the end is yet to come.

DARBY  But ye will hear of wars and rumours of wars. See that ye be not disturbed; for all [these things] must take place, but it is not yet the end.

EXB  You will hear about wars and ·stories of wars that are coming [rumors/reports of wars], but don’t be ·afraid [alarmed]. These things must happen before the end comes [or but that is not yet the end].

GW  “You will hear of wars and rumors of wars. Don’t be alarmed! These things must happen, but they don’t mean that the end has come.

ICB  You will hear about wars and stories of wars that are coming. But don’t be afraid. These things must happen before the end comes.

ISV
You’ll begin to hear of wars and rumors of wars. See to it that you don’t panic. c

So what does all this mean? It means in Matthew 24 (and in Mark) that up to verse 13 Jesus is speaking of the church age, NOT THE END. He TELLS US when He begins to speak of the end. It is in verse 13 and 14. 

Such things must happen, but the end is yet to come.
 These things must take place, but the end won’t have come yet, 
that is not yet the end. 
 These things must happen before the end comes.

These are ALL saying that Jesus is speaking of church age events that will LEAD UP to the end. When Jesus gets to the abomination, we all KNOW He is then speaking of "the end." 

If you still think verses 7 to 11 are speaking of the ends times, then I cannot help you.

The end is not yet with the beginning of sorrows, because we still have the AoD's and beast's 42 month reign to go through, that is then followed by the Lord and His saints commencing to reign, which is then followed by the Lord's wrath befalling the beast's worshippers. Very simple and straightforward. Off to lunch for now. Back in an hour or two.

[iamlamad]

37 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Learn and be comforted. NOT so you can TELL others what to believe or not believe about the Eschaton. And NOT to support your own private interpretations.

Did you not read?

1 Corinthians 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

How could one judge a prophecy if they did not hear it? And how could they hear it unless it was spoken in a group setting such as a small church gathering? Prophecy is supposed to be judged by the hearers. 

What did Paul do with His revealed knowledge? Hide it from others? No, he preached it!

When someone imagines some wild doctrine from one isolated verse and tries to teach it to others, THEN we can use the instruction: "no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.." Any prophecy or theory must come from the WHOLE COUNSEL of God, not just one isolated verse probably pulled out of context. 

Case in point: Paul's revelation of his gospel was certainly his own private interpretation until he shared it with others. 

[iamlamad]

51 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Have humble expectations that the prophecy will not be taken as a word of Scripture but as a Spirit-prompted human word to be weighed by Scripture, and by mature spiritual wisdom. For a prophecy to be accepted as valid it should find an echo in the hearts of spiritually mature people. It should be confirmed by biblically saturated insight. And it should find a resonance in the hearts and minds of those who have the mind of Christ and are ruled by his peace. (1 Thessalonians 5:19-21; Colossians 1:9; 3:15; Ephesians 5:15-17; Romans 12:1-2; Philippians 1:9-10).

The Bible tells us that God uses the gift of prophecy to speak edification, exhortation, and comfort to other people.

Now you have said something I can agree with. Good job. Keep in mind though, many rejected Paul's gospel, even though it was truth. 

Example: I was reading Daniel 9:27 and when my mind and my eyes got to the word "Midst" suddenly God spoke: it sounded like an audible voice. He said, "you could find that exact midpoint clearly marked in the book of Revelation.  I was instantly "in the spirit" and could not talk. But my spirit man asked: "how would I find that?" 

He answered: "Every time I mentioned an event that would go from the midpoint to the end of the week, I always included the 3 1/2 year period of time. When you find the mentions of the 3 1/2 years, you will be very close to the exact midpoint. In fact, you could find the entire 70th week clearly marked."

Those were His words. I heard them. I still remember them clearly. I have head the Lord's voice before so I recognized it as His. It was Jesus, the head of the church, teaching me. This is only one of several examples. 

[Justin Adams]

14 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Paul's revelation

Dangerous to equate yourself with Paul/Saul.